Mr. B...what Make & Model Tandem?



CAMPYBOB

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...do you have? I need the usual novice tandem buyer's advice. I'm looking for a 'racing' oriented

I'm off to look at a 1997 Santana Sovereign. Aluminum frame with single internal lateral, 1-1/4" steerer, 9-speed rig with triple, rear rack, drum drag brake (obsoleted by the new 'big' discs), front & rear V-brakes, drop bar front, wide cowhorn rear, shock absorbing stoker post, 160 MM rear triangle spacing, standard 40-spoke wheels, 28 MM Conti rubber,

He's throwing in a pickup truck fork clamp rack and the child's stoker crankset rig that's on it now. Two small scratches in the original Dupont paint. Obviously low miles going by the pictures.

$1000 asking.

Is this a good deal for a starter rig or should I try the $2K KHS Milano to see if I can cause a divorce?

Gadzooks! A carbon or Ti racing tandem with Campy looks like $15K to $20K!
 
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Mr. Beanz

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Wow. that is a deal. I looked at the Sovereign back when we bought our tandem (Burley Duet road tandem in 1997.

We couldn't touch the Sovereign as it was priced at $4300 way back then. I know a few friends who have them and it is one bad azz tandem. B)

As long as it is in good shape, that's a good deal and the bike won't disappoint you. I'd say it is more than a starter tandem. I don't think you would need anymore than the Sovereign.

Ours is a 1997 Burley Duet (company went out of business a few years ago). A cromoly tandem so it is heavier than the Sovereign (aluminum) but still a good bike. We have 48 spoke wheels but I bet the 40 would be good for you. Santana has a different rear hub set up/design that supposedly makes the 40 spoke as strong or stronger than the 48 of others.
 
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BobCochran

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See Mr. Beanz, your tandem videos really influence people. They sure influence me, anyhow. No, I have not bought a tandem yet. Who knows what the future holds.

Bob
 
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Mr. Beanz

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BobCochran said:
See Mr. Beanz, your tandem videos really influence people. They sure influence me, anyhow. No, I have not bought a tandem yet. Who knows what the future holds.

Bob

Ha ha ha! I rode with a forum member form another site. He ended up taking an interest in a tandem. He rides with his son and daughter who also ride a bit . They do some 20-30 milers. Plus she joined some program and rides with blind stokers (rear rider) which is pretty cool! B)

In case you don't know, the front rider is called the captain and the rear rider is called the stoker. Yo may know that but plenty of riders don't.

At times I have told other riders that the tandem is a nice ride if you have a relaxed stoker. They look at me confused as if it were something I smoked before the ride! :lol:
 
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CAMPYBOB

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Mr. B., Thank you.

I bought the Santana before I had the chance to read your reply. $800 with two small scratches. I will email the S/N to Santana and get a build date, bute I'm guessing a late 1990's or very early 2000's going by the components. The frame is Easton 7007 alloy (the newest Sovereign is built from Easton Scandium tubes at $5,195 for the complete bike).

The wheels were 48 spoke F & R!!! Two more spokes and we call these tanks "discs"! The front rim is a WheelSmith build on a "Made InFrance" rim (most likely a Mavic, but the sticker has fallen off or been removed). I think I could put you on back and these tanks would take our team weight easily.

Hubs are both Edco Swiss tandem hubs. One Q/R is a Dura-Ass. One is a Kalloy, I believe.

I got two stoker handlebar telescopic mounts with the bike, the silver OEM unit and a ControlTech black anodized one with longer reach back to the stoker.

Front bars are DEDA! Yeah! Italian pieces parts!

Captains saddle is a new Selle Italia something-or-other with a cutout. Looks rideable.

Rear saddle is a Terry women's model something-or-other. Looks like new.

Rear derailleur is a shitmaNO XTR. Looks like new. The white lettering on the pulleys is not only readable, it looks like it was never discolored by oils or dirt!

Front derailleur is a shitmaNO 105; braze-on type bolted to a polished aluminum band clamp (also shitmaNO?).

I haven't found a model name on the cranksets. They are shitmaNO units with a part number on them. Run-of-the-mill forged aluminum. Look to be square taper spindles. All teeth are like new. I put more wear on a 53-T ring in a year than these things have on them.

The captain's cranks are 175 MM and the stoker's cranks are 170 MM. This thing was definitely properly sized for riders of disparate heights. Probably a husband/wife team. The original owner was a LBS Sales Manager. He owned this rig for most of its life. The fellow I bought if from was the second owner and bought it for his 4-year old son to sit on. He installed a child stoke crank and put on the longer stoker bar extension for his son. His son is now 5 and riding a solo bike! So maybe a year or two ownership there? I'm the third guy to put it in the stable.​

I received the OEM fixed length stoker seatpost and the upgrade shock absorbing seatpost that was installed in the frame. Both post diameters are an oddball 29.9".

The Cateye wire computer that came with it is pretty worthless and was set up for the stoker to read.

Came with the OEM shitaNO 'V'-brakes and a set of new Tektro units. The rear Tektro was installed to clear the rack braces. I removed the rack for the time being and re-installed the shitmaNO brake to match the front brake. What a pain! I never messed with 'V' brakes before...lots of little pieces parts to clean, lube and figure out the assembly sequence.

The shitmaNO brakes have some sort of strange double-diameter 'power booster' wheel thing. Bizarre.

It does need a new rear brake cable. The OEM cable was FUBAR'd in the last owner's swap-in of the Tektro and it's wire saddle.

Came with 4 Test Ride pedals. Only one set has toe clips and straps. I'll probably install two pairs of Ultegra SPDR road pedals.

Tires are in good shape. Conti's.

Bar wrap is all new, but I'll have to do a re-wrap. It deserves perfection! Needs a pair of bar plugs for the stoker's cowhorn bar.

I put 3 hours in it doing the first of the detailing and lube jobs. Another 6-10 hours should have it ready for a test ride.
 

BobCochran

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Wow! Sounds like you are really enjoying it, CampyBob. I'd love to see some pictures of it. Enjoy, enjoy!

Bob
 

Mr. Beanz

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Yeah, sounds like a good deal CP!

I used that beach cruiser foam tubing on the stoker's cow horn bars. Gina wanted it so there it is! :lol:

We have those roll-a-majigs on our V brakes. They work great, lots of stopping power! I believe they add power when going form a road brake lever to a V brake. Works nicely on our tandem. B)
 

CAMPYBOB

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Give me a day or two to get it put back in one piece and I'll put up some pictures. I have to order some Ultegra road pedals, that brake cable, the bar end plugs and I'm going to need a Garmin speed/cadence sensor and a mount for my 510.

I haven't tried 175 cranks for more than a couple of miles at a time...these should be interesting to see if my legs adapt to the stroke change. Maybe they will help with the steep climbs a wee bit?

The bike is really pretty light weight, but very ass-end heavy. Picking up the rear wheel assembly by itself...what a tank! 48 spokes adds a ton of weight and that drag brake adds another two tons to the assembly's weight.

The assembled frame and components, minus both wheels, balances nicely front-to-rear.

I'm already having nightmares trying to figure out how I'm going to turn this tank around in less than two counties worth of real estate.
 

Mr. Beanz

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CAMPYBOB said:
I'm already having nightmares trying to figure out how I'm going to turn this tank around in less than two counties worth of real estate.
Oh I learned real quick after hitting a concrete island on one of our first rides. :lol:

One thing I love about the tandem is I can support the stoker's weight without hands if I sit lightly on the top tube. So she never needs to unclip at stops. Plus it gives her a chance to set my pedals to start position while we are stopped. Green light, ready set go! B)
 

CAMPYBOB

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I was wrong about the seat being a Selle Italia. Both seats are Terry: A man's saddle called something like Sella Gelissimo and the stoker's is a women's Terry. Both are manufactured in Italy.

I got the cowhorns re-taped after my first ride. I'm headed out for another ride this afternoon and I'll re-tape the captain's bars when I get time this evening.

I did loosen the elliptical bottom bracket and put the cranks back in phase and tensioned the coupling primary drive chain...I hear that's important that it have little to no slack in it.

The rear shitmaNO V-brake is giving me some trouble in getting it set properly. I think the half-trash cable that I've managed to salvage just for setting things up is to blame...too many kinks from the conversion to the Tektro unit.

Just pushing this thing around the garage is an eye opener. The front end is very stabile. There is hardly any 'flop over' to it. I read Santana uses a mile of fork rake... Also, the thing is crazy heavy in the rear end. I can see why drag brakes are not seen on many tandems anymore and when they are installed, it's a disc setup.

I would like to ride one of the new twin-big disc rigs and see how they slowed.

Our hills are generally short and steep. I hit 47.1 MPH yesterday on a single without even trying. I imagine the tandem dropping off the same hill would easily clear 50 MPH.

There are four brand new, completely un-used VMax water bottle cages on this thing. So I have to buy four bottle...four pedals...

Did you ever see tandems with a bungee cord between the 'Go' pair of pedals? Used to be a thing around here for easier start ups back when dinosaurs and toe clips ruled the Earth. After clipless came along, I saw less and less of it.

Hmmmm? I think I can get the wife in shape and we can kick the ass of that dentist and his always hot current girlfriend on his $20,000 Calfee carbon rig!
 

CAMPYBOB

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It's not anywhere near ready to ride, but it is sitting in one piece and looking shiney.

You know...the old 15.5 ounce Campagnolo GT rear derailleur (an all-teel chrome plated beauty from the early 1970's) sure would loog good hanging off the back of that thing! We'll see how brave I get on our hills. I may remove the drag brake. That would lighten the load two to three pounds.

DSCF1305_zpsu4udajkc.jpg
 
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CAMPYBOB

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Some generic shitmaNO cranksets that scream, "it's a piece of trash!". The teeth still show machining marks...pretty low miles i would say.

DSCF1307_zpsmkwgjops.jpg
 

CAMPYBOB

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Spokes! Everywhere...spokes! All 14 Gauge, straight gauge coat hanger wire! Dunno much about shitmaNO XTR stuff. The rear shifts OK...a bit vague, but there is a mile and half of wire to get back to the derailleur from the shifter. Cassette is 11-30.

DSCF1308_zpsdq63mwt7.jpg


Look at those pulleys! Like new! And the cage has about zero wear on the finish. Again, this is probably a machine that saw very little use and was well cared for.
 

CAMPYBOB

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This is one of the Edco Swiss hubs...this one has the Dura-Ass Q/R Skewer stuck in it. Beefy fork with 1-1/4" steerer. I pulled the headset to grease it...no need. The grease was clean and white! I shuffled the spacers, flipped the stem and put it back together.

DSCF1312_zpsxkgdq9m5.jpg
 

CAMPYBOB

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The guy that originally purchased the bike was a sales manager for Century Cycles (a chain of N.E. Ohio shops). He applied this decal. It will stay.

DSCF1315_zpsyaf3uk88.jpg


Like I said...I don't think any of the four bottle cages ever had a bottle in them!
 

CAMPYBOB

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The drum brake used as a drag brake for long descents is controlled by a bar-end index lever. Santana says they never had one wear out! They seam to last forever and now that they have been obsoleted by the huge tandem-size disc brake setups...they'll last even longer!

I can testify that they are HEAVY.

DSCF1316_zpszksb6ts4.jpg
 

CAMPYBOB

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Anyone know what model levers these generic sitmaNO "Flite Deck" marked things are? The clicky-clicky is vague...like shifting an old crappy Brittish sports car. Stirring poridge has a more positive feel. Of course, shitmaNO stuff is designed for the ladies, so...

DSCF1317_zpszslzm1fr.jpg


When I re-taped the bars (Deda Italian! Thank God!) I noticed some sort of door or cover plate on the inside, lower side of the levers. Flite Deck wiring port?
 

CAMPYBOB

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The weird V-brakes with the even weirder 'force amplifying' twin diameter roller wheel. The brakes feel solid...we'll see how fast they bring this tank and two riders to a cease and a whoa ho.

Got to take some Simichrome to the rear rim and the brake arms yet. Tomorrow.

DSCF1318_zps0ckpufdf.jpg
 

CAMPYBOB

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The DuPont paint work is still almost perfect. This thing has aged well. Easton 7005 DB tubing...yeah, a recycled beer can.

DSCF1320_zpsnoq6r70v.jpg



I like the lateral frame design much better than the new 'open' frames. Material-for-material, the internal lateral has got add a load of stiffness.
 

CAMPYBOB

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Spot the two scratches! Probably from the four-year old stoker on the booster crankset!

DSCF1314_zpshkxawerp.jpg



I'll do worse to it in the first 20 miles I put on it!