MTB Front hub reassembly - problem ...



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C

Candt

Guest
Hi there all,

I've got really **** hubs on my MTB - I mean bog standard, simple hubs - fitted as standard on my
Trek 4300... Now - as I've done with most of the bits of my bike - I thought I'd give them a service
- disassemble, clean bearings, grease, reassemble...

All has gone very well - all the bearings seems to be intact and undamaged, after I degreased them.

Now - I might need to explain how I took them apart, and what parts it consists of in case thats
important. Basically, I held the drive side locknut with one spanner, and unscrewed the non-drive
side one. So the drive-side assembly has not moved at all, and shouldnt need touching...

The locknut is a flattish hex nut with indentations on both flat faces. Then came a flat washer,
which fit snuggly into a rubber 'seal' which no doubt keeps all the **** out. Then under all that,
there is the nut with a tapered side which rolls against the bearings. Is this the 'cone'? Anyway -
I'll assume it is for now...

So I unscrewed the cone, and took it off - then pulled the axle through, took all the bearing out,
and cleaned it all nicely... Then came the reassembly.

OK first - greased the inside if the hub where the bearing sit (the cups??) with a thin line of
grease. This allowed me to stick the bearings - 10 per side) to the grease to stop them moving
around. Once they were all in - I greased on top of them and put the axle back through. When I
screwed on the non-drive side cone, what I did (as I say - I don't know if this is correct or not),
is to tighten is up until resistance is felt against the bearings - then loosen it a tiny tiny bit -
the wheel runs really smoothly, and there is no play at all in the axle... Cool - all going well so
far. Now comes the annoying bit. no - I put on the rubber seal, and the washer - and tighten up the
locknut - but the wheel then locks up - what must be happening is that the motion of turning the
locknut is turning the washer - then turning the cone too - so it locks up against the bearings !!

What can I do to stop the cone from moving from its position I set it to?

Cheers all - sorry for the long winded post

CandT
 
M

Michael Dart

Guest
"CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there all,
>
> What can I do to stop the cone from moving from its position I set it to?
>

You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
locknut down.

Mike
 
C

Candt

Guest
On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:42:30 -0500, "Michael Dart" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
>locknut down.
>
>Mike
>

Thats what I'd like to have done - but the rubber seal is preventing me getting anything around the
cone... It covers it completely.

CandT
 
C

Candt

Guest
>You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
>locknut down.
>
>Mike
>
Actually - I think I might be able to get the cone wrench in behind the rubber seal before putting
it on, and be able to do it from there...

I remember I had a similar problem when I serviced my pedals, but managed to get it to work by luck
more than judgment - though I couldnt use 2 wrenches there because the cone is right inside the
pedal. But of course the washer is one with flat sides to the middle hole which stops it from
rotating - which in turn would mean that the cone cannot rotate...

Thanks for that though.

CandT
 
M

M-Gineering Imp

Guest
CandT wrote:
>
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:42:30 -0500, "Michael Dart" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
> >locknut down.
> >
> >Mike
> >
>
> Thats what I'd like to have done - but the rubber seal is preventing me getting anything around
> the cone... It covers it completely.
>
> CandT

number three: www.m-gineering.nl/tipsoldg.htm
--
Marten
 
M

Mike S.

Guest
"CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:42:30 -0500, "Michael Dart" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> >
> >You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
> >locknut down.
> >
> >Mike
> >
>
> Thats what I'd like to have done - but the rubber seal is preventing me
getting
> anything around the cone... It covers it completely.
>
> CandT

If you can't get to the cone to hold it in place because of the rubber washer, try leaving the cone
a little loose and tightening the locknut down onto it that way. May tighten things up enough that
you end up with the same feel as you did when you hand tightened the cone.

When I'm doing hub/bb adjustments and I need to get the feel just right, I either get it right the
first time or it takes several attempts. Give it another go.

Failing that, can you put the rubber washer on after you tighten the locknut?

Mike
 
D

David Kunz

Guest
CandT wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:42:30 -0500, "Michael Dart" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
>>locknut down.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>
>
> Thats what I'd like to have done - but the rubber seal is preventing me getting anything around
> the cone... It covers it completely.
>
> CandT

1. Get the thin wrench designed to hold this style nut from your LBS. Or, take an old wrench to a
grinder and make it thin enough to get in there (what I did :)).

2. Even then, tightening the lock-nut will take the slack out of the threads on the other nut making
it a little tighter. And, when you add the quick release to this, it compresses it a little more.
SO, leave the inner nut slightly loose. After thightening the locking nut and putting the wheel
back into the rim (tightening the quick release), there should be no play AND the wheel should
roll freely. It'll take several attempts to get it just right :).

David
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
"CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there all,
>
> I've got really **** hubs on my MTB - I mean bog standard, simple hubs -
fitted
> as standard on my Trek 4300... Now - as I've done with most of the bits of
my
> bike - I thought I'd give them a service - disassemble, clean bearings,
grease,
> reassemble...
>
> All has gone very well - all the bearings seems to be intact and
undamaged,
> after I degreased them.
>
> Now - I might need to explain how I took them apart, and what parts it
consists
> of in case thats important. Basically, I held the drive side locknut with
one
> spanner, and unscrewed the non-drive side one. So the drive-side assembly
has
> not moved at all, and shouldnt need touching...
>
> The locknut is a flattish hex nut with indentations on both flat faces.
Then
> came a flat washer, which fit snuggly into a rubber 'seal' which no doubt
keeps
> all the **** out. Then under all that, there is the nut with a tapered
side
> which rolls against the bearings. Is this the 'cone'? Anyway - I'll assume
it is
> for now...
>
> So I unscrewed the cone, and took it off - then pulled the axle through,
took
> all the bearing out, and cleaned it all nicely... Then came the
reassembly.
>
> OK first - greased the inside if the hub where the bearing sit (the
cups??) with
> a thin line of grease. This allowed me to stick the bearings - 10 per
side) to
> the grease to stop them moving around. Once they were all in - I greased
on top
> of them and put the axle back through. When I screwed on the non-drive
side
> cone, what I did (as I say - I don't know if this is correct or not), is
to
> tighten is up until resistance is felt against the bearings - then loosen
it a
> tiny tiny bit - the wheel runs really smoothly, and there is no play at
all in
> the axle... Cool - all going well so far. Now comes the annoying bit. no -
I put
> on the rubber seal, and the washer - and tighten up the locknut - but the
wheel
> then locks up - what must be happening is that the motion of turning the
locknut
> is turning the washer - then turning the cone too - so it locks up against
the
> bearings !!
>
> What can I do to stop the cone from moving from its position I set it to?

You did everything described correctly I think ( you did clean everything inside very
well, right ?).

When you adjust the bearing's clearance, you should hold the cone from turning with a thin wrench
and then lock the locknut against it.( It sounds as if you may have only one wrench and so the cone
is turning when you secure the locknut) Evaluate the adjustment _after_ the locknut is tight. Oil
the threads on the axle to facilitate this adjustment. You may also note that a hub, adjusted to a
small amount of play, becomes tighter when the skewer is closed. You can, by trial and error,
anticipate that effect.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
 
A

Andrew Webster

Guest
CandT <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:42:30 -0500, "Michael Dart" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
> >locknut down.
> >
> >Mike
> >

This is definitely the way to do it (easier to adjust if you also hold the far side so the wheel
still, e.g. in a vice, while adjusting) - though don't expect to get it absolutely right first time.

>
> Thats what I'd like to have done - but the rubber seal is preventing me getting anything around
> the cone... It covers it completely.
>
Can you do put on the rubber seal after you have completed the assembly? If it fits over the end of
the cone then surely it will fit over the locknut too?
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
A shy person wrote:

> I've got really **** hubs on my MTB - I thought I'd give them a service - disassemble, clean
> bearings, grease, reassemble...
>
> All has gone very well - all the bearings seems to be intact and undamaged, after I
> degreased them.

It's generally best to replace the balls when overhauling a hub. They're cheap, and it's hard to be
sure you've really cleaned the old ones thoroughly enough. [snip]

> The locknut is a flattish hex nut with indentations on both flat faces. Then came a flat washer,
> which fit snuggly into a rubber 'seal' which no doubt keeps all the **** out.

That's the intent, at least.

> Then under all that, there is the nut with a tapered side which rolls against the bearings. Is
> this the 'cone'?

That's correct.
>
> So I unscrewed the cone, and took it off - then pulled the axle through, took all the bearing
> out, and cleaned it all nicely... Then came the reassembly.
>
> OK first - greased the inside if the hub where the bearing sit (the cups??)

Right.

> with a thin line of grease.

Grease is cheap, don't skimp on it!

> This allowed me to stick the bearings - 10 per side) to the grease to stop them moving around.
> Once they were all in - I greased on top of them and put the axle back through. When I screwed on
> the non-drive side cone, what I did (as I say - I don't know if this is correct or not),

It is correct so far, though the term "drive side" is a bit bogus.

> is to tighten is up until resistance is felt against the bearings - then loosen it a tiny tiny
> bit - the wheel runs really smoothly, and there is no play at all in the axle... Cool - all going
> well so far. Now comes the annoying bit. no - I put on the rubber seal, and the washer - and
> tighten up the locknut - but the wheel then locks up - what must be happening is that the motion
> of turning the locknut is turning the washer
> - then turning the cone too - so it locks up against the bearings !!

That's correct. Also, even if the washer doesn't turn, the locknut pressing against the cone
(through the washer) takes up any slack in the cone/axle threads, so the cone moves a bit inward.
>
> What can I do to stop the cone from moving from its position I set it to?

A well meaning poster replied:

>>You have to use two cone wrenches, one to hold the cone in place and the other to tighten the
>>locknut down.

Two cone wrenches are good, but you shouldn't use cone wrenches on the locknut--that's a job for a
box wrench, at least on well-designed hubs.

(some poorly designed hubs do require a cone wrench for the locknut, but these are, fortunately,
quite uncommon.

> Actually - I think I might be able to get the cone wrench in behind the rubber seal before putting
> it on, and be able to do it from there...

The place you went wrong was that you installed the rubber boot too soon. Installing the boot is the
very last step, after the hub has been completely adjusted and the locknuts are secure!

I have a Web article that explains some easier, more efficient ways to do this job, see:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Sheldon "Cone Wrenches For Cones Only" Brown +-----------------------------------------------+
| Who has deceived thee as often as thyself? | -- Benjamin Franklin |
+-----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
C

Candt

Guest
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:46:57 GMT, Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>Sheldon "Cone Wrenches For Cones Only" Brown +-----------------------------------------------+
>| Who has deceived thee as often as thyself? | -- Benjamin Franklin |
>+-----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
>617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
>http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Wow - "THE" Sheldon Brown replying to one of my posts !! Nice one !

OK - Thanks to EVERYONE for all your advice - I reckon I can sort this out now...

Basically -

Cone on so that there is a little bit of play in the axle Washer on Locknut on HoldCone with Cone
Wrench, tighten lockunt against it with a spanner... Rubber boot on LAST

Any playould be taken up with the skewer...

Right - Rear hub next !!!!

One minor thing though - in response to the "skimping grease" comment... Is there such a thing as
too much grease? Can the performance be affected detrimentally by too much gloop in the cups? Maybe
thats a whole new thread eh?

Cheers...

CandT
 
C

Candt

Guest
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:47:43 GMT, CandT <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>OK - Thanks to EVERYONE for all your advice - I reckon I can sort this out now...
>

>
>One minor thing though - in response to the "skimping grease" comment... Is there such a thing as
>too much grease? Can the performance be affected detrimentally by too much gloop in the cups? Maybe
>thats a whole new thread eh?
>
>Cheers...
>
>CandT

All sorted - bit of trial and error into how much play to leave in the axle - in the end 'barely
perceptible' seemed to be the correct amount! But now the hub has basically turned into a perpetual
motion machine - start it spinning - no matter how slow - and it keeps on rollin'

Slapped a bit more grease in there anyway - so I hope none of you post back and say "just enough
grease to coat the bearings", or I'll cry ;-)

CandT
 
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