MTB light frame recomendations

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by orfeo, Jul 15, 2003.

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  1. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    Howdy all :)

    I'm thinking of upgrading my trek 970's frame to a lighter one as i'm happy with the bike apart from the weight. I've had a look at an Giant ATX frame at Cranks in North Sydney which goes for $350 however this old allows for disc brakes on the rear. I would like to get discs one day but not yet and i don't think i'll bother getting them on the back anyway. So i don't really want to go for that option unless i have to as that would force me to upgrade to discs straight away.

    Does anyone have any other recommendations for a frame around the 1.5kg weight range (hardtail) which comes in a larger size (i'm 6ft 3inch).


    Also, the guy i spoke to at cranks said it wasn't worth upgrading my old stuff, does anyone agree with him?

    thanks for any advice ppls :)

    orfeo
     
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  2. the majority of the weight is very unlikely to be in the frame seatpost handlebar and BB are
    probably the cheapest places to start?

    "orfeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    Howdy all :)

    I'm thinking of upgrading my trek 970's frame to a lighter one as i'm happy with the bike apart from
    the weight. I've had a look at an Giant ATX frame at Cranks in North Sydney which goes for $350
    however this old allows for disc brakes on the rear. I would like to get discs one day but not yet
    and i don't think i'll bother getting them on the back anyway. So i don't really want to go for that
    option unless i have to as that would force me to upgrade to discs straight away.

    Does anyone have any other recommendations for a frame around the 1.5kg weight range (hardtail)
    which comes in a larger size (i'm 6ft 3inch).

    Also, the guy i spoke to at cranks said it wasn't worth upgrading my old stuff, does anyone
    agree with him?

    thanks for any advice ppls :)

    orfeo

    --
    >--------------------------<
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  3. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    originally posted by Nicholas & Domi

    the majority of the weight is very unlikely to be in the frame seatpost handlebar and BB are
    probably the cheapest places to start?


    Sorry, i couldn't understand you wording. Do you mean that the frame wouldn't have a majority of the weight and that i'd be better of to get a lighter seatpost, handlebar and i'm not sure what BB is?

    could you clarify?, the trek 970 i've got is a steel chromium frame (not the correct termonology i know) which is meant to be a lighter derivitive of a steel frame but i'm sure it weighs alot more than a aluminium frame. I'd think i could probably save between 1-3 kg by swapping frams, how much could i save by swapping handlebars, seat posts and BBs?

    thanks for any more advice on this :)

    orfeo
     
  4. Till

    Till Guest

    orfeo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > could you clarify?, the trek 970 i've got is a steel chromium frame (not the correct termonology i
    > know) which is meant to be a lighter derivitive of a steel frame but i'm sure it weighs alot more
    > than a aluminium frame. I'd think i could probably save between 1-3 kg by swapping frams, how much
    > could i save by swapping handlebars, seat posts and BBs?

    I have a large 700C tourer frame with 3/4" stays etc which checks in at
    2.4kgs, for frame and forks, steel alloys arent necessarily heavy.

    till
     
  5. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    Originally posted by Till

    I have a large 700C tourer frame with 3/4" stays etc which checks in at
    2.4kgs, for frame and forks, steel alloys arent necessarily heavy.



    i assume that's a racer bike?, the trek 970 i own is a mountain bike. and i think the frame would be a bit heavier than a racers frame (i've very envious of my friend crappy racer which is a hell of a lot lighter than my bike)

    orfeo
     
  6. Till

    Till Guest

    orfeo <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Originally posted by Till
    >
    > I have a large 700C tourer frame with 3/4" stays etc which checks in at
    > 2.4kgs, for frame and forks, steel alloys arent necessarily heavy.
    >
    > i assume that's a racer bike?, the trek 970 i own is a mountain bike. and i think the frame would
    > be a bit heavier than a racers frame (i've very envious of my friend crappy racer which is a hell
    > of a lot lighter than my bike)

    Perhaps there is no point following up your questions, Ill try again to make sure.

    Dont assume its a racer bike, its a TOURER, JUST LIKE I SAID.

    The point is; steel isnt necessarily a heavy material for making frames from, be they road (racers),
    MTB or tourers. There are differnt grades of steel. If you do some research, Im sure you will find
    its pretty comparable to ali and or whacky stuff like Ti and carbon.

    till
     
  7. sorry - too much shorthand.

    I agree with the other poster(s) - you're unlikely to be able to save more than a kilo or at the
    outside, a kilo and a half, by changing the frame. Generally the weight is hidden in the
    componentry. If you do a bit of searching you will be able to find the weight of most of your
    components without stripping your bike down. BB = bottom bracket; an easy way manufacturers try to
    hide weight on a bike..... Try working out how light you want your bike to be and calculate the
    'dollars per gram saved' you are prepared to spend to achieve that weight. A really expensive bike
    (dually xc racer) may be upwards of $1/g and a good xc hardtail may be $0.55/g. That's from brand
    new. Components may be worth much more than that rate and so it is often cheaper in the long run to
    buy a new bike than upgrade a heavy one.....

    Of course you should also think about whether it would be cheaper to lose that same weight off your
    own body. I've already got my bike as light as I can get it (reasonably) and therefore the body is
    the only answer left.....

    give us a list of components and we'll likely be able to figure out where the mass is hiding. My
    guess is the wheels, but that's an expensive are to start upgrading from. Sorry - I just don't
    know the bike.

    Nick

    "orfeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    originally posted by Nicholas & Domi

    the majority of the weight is very unlikely to be in the frame seatpost handlebar and BB are
    probably the cheapest places to start?

    Sorry, i couldn't understand you wording. Do you mean that the frame wouldn't have a majority of the
    weight and that i'd be better of to get a lighter seatpost, handlebar and i'm not sure what BB is?

    could you clarify?, the trek 970 i've got is a steel chromium frame (not the correct termonology i
    know) which is meant to be a lighter derivitive of a steel frame but i'm sure it weighs alot more
    than a aluminium frame. I'd think i could probably save between 1-3 kg by swapping frams, how much
    could i save by swapping handlebars, seat posts and BBs?

    thanks for any more advice on this :)

    orfeo

    --
    >--------------------------<
    Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
     
  8. orfeo wrote:

    > Howdy all :)
    >
    > I'm thinking of upgrading my trek 970

    Hold it right there. If memory serves, Trek stopped making steel-framed 970s in the mid/late 90s.
    Changing the frame will involve at least a new front derailleur and seat post, and molto hassle, and
    you'll still have the old components.

    The bike shop guy is right - it's not worth it. Buy a new bike.

    John Former bike magazine guy.
     
  9. Jose Rizal

    Jose Rizal Guest

    till:

    > The point is; steel isnt necessarily a heavy material for making frames from, be they road
    > (racers), MTB or tourers. There are differnt grades of steel. If you do some research, Im sure you
    > will find its pretty comparable to ali and or whacky stuff like Ti and carbon.
    >

    Some aluminium frames (especially with straight gauge tubing) can be almost as heavy as some steel
    frames, but Ti almost always beats steel in the weight department. As far as carbon fibre goes, not
    many can afford an all-carbon fibre frame, even if one was available.
     
  10. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    hey guys,

    thanks for all you help on this one, sorry to annoy some of you with my newbie'ness i just wanted to get my head around this weight problem as i haven't been completly happy with the trek 970 ever since i got it to replace my stolen gary fisher marlin.

    I had a look on the net and found http://members.tripod.com/justsaymo/singlespeed/id2.htm which said the 970 frame (1994) weighs in at 2227 grams. I can't be sure if this is my frame but its probably close enought to it. So that equates to a ruff 800g difference to the Giant ATX 890 frame which was 1400g.

    Still, i don't know if i can justify the upgrade as the frame only allows rear disc brakes (which i'm told are alot heavier than v-brakse) and hence some of the weight gain would be lost straight away there.

    A quick run down of my bike off my memory is this : Trek 970 chrom-steel frame, Rockshox Indy XC shocks (3.1 lbs apparantly), shimano deore LX rear derailer, unsure of the front derailer but i assume it matches the deore lx on the rear, seat is quite good racer one but don't know the name, peddles are shimano clip ins faily low profile and alot ligher than some other ones i've got, standard wheels and handlebars i think.

    Nick?, How much would i be looking at to upgrade the wheels? i assume about $100 a wheel? how much weight could i save. If this is all to much trouble to answer these questions don't worry about it :) i know i've been a pest :)

    orfeo
     
  11. Fakhina Sohl

    Fakhina Sohl Guest

    orfeo <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ...i'm sure it weighs alot more than a aluminium frame. I'd think i could probably save between
    > 1-3 kg by swapping frams,

    Your steel frame might weigh a lot more than an aluminium frame, but the frame is a surprisingly
    small component of the total weight of a bike.

    A fairly average mid-range (or a strong high-end) hardtail mountain bike will weigh about 13 kg. The
    frame will typically account for somewhere between 1.5 and 2 kg of that.

    In my case, my forks weigh about the same as my frame. When I take the bike out of my car and carry
    the wheels in one hand and the bike in the other, the wheels are the heavier side.

    Let's pretend that your frame weighs 2.5kg, and the whole bike weighs 15 kg. Unlikely, but let's go
    with it (if a frame was that heavy, the rest of the bike would almost certainly be heavier...either
    through being bombproof or cheap).

    So you could upgrade to a high-end 1.5kg (3 pound) frame, for big $$$ (plus all the hidden extras as
    John mentioned). Losing 1kg (a _huge_ drop in frame weight), you'd still have a 14kg bike. The
    upgrade probably would have cost you as much as a new mid-range 13kg bike.

    If you're determined to lose some weight off the bike you have, the frame is the wrong
    place to look:
    * Tyres can vary greatly in weight - up to 1kg each.
    * Others have suggested the bottom bracket.
    * XT rear cassettes are substantially lighter than lower end units.
    * Hubs are heavy things - but they're rather important. Big $ hubs are lighter than mid $ hubs. It's
    probably cheaper to lose grams in the hubs than in the frame

    Over all though, the cheapest kgs you can lose off a bike are the ones on top of the saddle. Ride
    more. When parts wear out, if you're still obsessed by weight, replace them with something lighter.

    fs
     
  12. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    Thanks FS :) , i'n actually pretty light for my size (78 kg . 6ft 3in) so i can't lose much weight ;) . I'm not sure what to really do but since i can't really affoard to do much then i think i'm going to have to live with what i've got (i did a ruff weigh on the scales at home and it came in at 11-12 kg). But thanks very much for the help, when the time and money comes i'll be able to make a better informated descision.

    Thanks again

    orfeo
     
  13. D&M Johnston

    D&M Johnston Guest

    Possibly another area to work on.....

    Try to build up more body strength...then the bike won't feel so heavy.

    Worth a thought maybe!!

    Cheers DJ "orfeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks FS :) , i'n actually pretty light for my size (78 kg . 6ft 3in) so i can't lose much weight
    > ;) . I'm not sure what to really do but since i can't really affoard to do much then i think i'm
    > going to have to live with what i've got (i did a ruff weigh on the scales at home and it came in
    > at 11-12 kg). But thanks very much for the help, when the time and money comes i'll be able to
    > make a better informated descision.
    >
    > Thanks again
    >
    > orfeo
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > >--------------------------<
    > Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
     
  14. orfeo wrote:

    > How much would i be looking at to upgrade the wheels? i assume about $100 a wheel?

    Try doubling that and doubling it again to get something reasonably decent put together by a
    wheelbuilder. Double it *again* if you're a gullible idiot attracted by shiny low-spoke-count
    hype-wheels.

    Oh, and there is absolutely no point whatsoever upgrading a frame that's sitting behind an Indy C
    "suspension" "fork". The quote marks are there because the Indy series components failed to
    deliver minimum acceptable performance for either "suspension" - an undamped spring with barely
    any travel to speak of - or "fork", given they were sufficiently torsionally flexible that
    steering was an act of optimism rather than control. If you can't control a bike properly, it
    doesn't matter how light it is, it's still a piece of junk, and anything with an Indy C lobbed o
    the front is a piece of junk.

    Do NOT waste your money upgrading this bike: buy a new one. Slap slicks and a cheap rigid fork
    (which will steer properly) on your 970 and use it as a hack/commuter/runabout.
     
  15. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    Hey John,


    Any suggestions where to get a light rigid fork?, i've asked around a few shops but they said you can't really get them anymore unless your getting some really heavy ones to withstand big drops and harsh treatment. I'm only using my bike in suburbia and the city so i could live without suspension. My forks (the indy XC - are they the same ones you were describing) are 3.1 lbs , how much could i save if i had solid forks?

    thanks again

    orfeo
     
  16. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    "orfeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Any suggestions where to get a light rigid fork?, i've asked around a few shops but they said you
    > can't really get them anymore unless your getting some really heavy ones to withstand big drops
    > and harsh treatment. I'm only using my bike in suburbia and the city so i could live without
    > suspension. My forks (the indy XC - are they the same ones you were describing) are 3.1 lbs , how
    > much could i save if i had solid forks?

    I have a Klein alu fork for my commuter mtb4road. Well, it's actually gone back to being a real
    mountain bike now as it has knobbies and a brand new Marzocchi MXC on it. This fork (~800g?) saved
    me over a kilo on my RST381 (~2kg) suspension forks and was found second hand in a bike shop in
    Melbourne. Basically, what i did was pick up the Yellow Pages and start ringing bike shops, asking
    if they had any rigid mtb forks. 99% of shops will say something along the lines of "we have some
    big, heavy, ugly, probably OEM off a beater forks, you can have for $100". 1% will say "yes, we have
    some tasty light forks for you". There's no easy way - basically start calling and start scouring
    boards and mailing lists, etc for people offloading rigid forks. With the increased popularity of
    singlespeeding, there may be more rigid forks available nowadays, I'm not sure. Kinesis still make
    light, rigid, mtb forks I think. Other than that, there will be lots of heavy options available such
    as Planet-X Kniffen's and stuff for dirt jumping, trials, etc. Try: http://www.scvimports.com.au/
    for Kinesis if you can't find a second hand fork.

    HTH hippy
     
  17. Ollie Wigg

    Ollie Wigg Guest

    I live in richmond and I thik I have a bright yellow kinesis fork that I'd be willing to sell. Might
    have thrown it out. email me on [email protected] .net.au if you're interested.

    "orfeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > John Stevenson wrote:
    > > orfeo wrote:
    > > >
    > > Do NOT waste your money upgrading this bike: buy a new one. Slap
    slicks
    > > and a cheap rigid fork (which will steer properly) on your 970 and use it as a
    > > hack/commuter/runabout.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hey John,
    >
    >
    > Any suggestions where to get a light rigid fork?, i've asked around a few shops but they said you
    > can't really get them anymore unless your getting some really heavy ones to withstand big drops
    > and harsh treatment. I'm only using my bike in suburbia and the city so i could live without
    > suspension. My forks (the indy XC - are they the same ones you were describing) are 3.1 lbs , how
    > much could i save if i had solid forks?
    >
    > thanks again
    >
    > orfeo
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > >--------------------------<
    > Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
     
  18. orfeo

    orfeo New Member

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    hey ollie,

    i tried to email you on that address but it bounced back (i took the space out between the aarvark. and the net ).

    how much would you want for them?, how big is the stem (diameter) and how heavy are they?.

    you can email me on [email protected]

    orfeo
     
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