MTBers V. roadies



ireman_1

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Aug 10, 2003
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Is there a rule somewhere in the roadie handbook that compells some to act as though they are some superior brand of cyborg when faced with a mountain biker riding on the road? I know, I know this may be an exception more than the rule, but more and more I am noticing when I ride either my mtb or cruiser the road cats seem to think it's a crime to pass them or have to give the whole "Dude, knobbies dude, I'm passing you dude. Like stay on your side of the lane dude." And God forbid you come to a light when a whole gaggle of them are riding the same road! They act like they are in the peloton throwing elbows and positioning to break the tape on stage 20.

The main reason I ask is I borrowed a co-workers road bike (1st time on a road bike despite being an mtber for 12 years and riding bmx for 13 or so) the other day to see if it messed with my shoulder to ride (I "sort of" destroyed my shoulder riding a few weeks ago) because riding my cruiser for fitness is NOT going to happen (single speed with the ape hanger bars and the big ass seat). While on his bike for the day I noticed the roadie cats were not as hostile and even sort of cool to me when I was obviously gassed and dying for air. I have tested it twice now and had the results I would have expected.

I would be interested in your thoughts. Please save any of your comments that I am judging and blah, blah, blah. I am asking a question not trying to convince you all roadies are bad so slow down there fella. Maybe I was not the same while on the road rig. I wore the same gear and such (mtb helmet, camleback, baggies, etc). I don't know. What's up?

K.
 
I think the attitude would be mostly because mountain bikers, who would spend most of their riding time largely to themselves on the singletrack, are likely to have poor road pack-riding skills -- which would make them a liability (crash/erraticness wise) in a paceline..
 
Originally posted by ireman_1
Is there a rule somewhere in the roadie handbook that compells some to act as though they are some superior brand of cyborg when faced with a mountain biker riding on the road? I know, I know this may be an exception more than the rule, but more and more I am noticing when I ride either my mtb or cruiser the road cats seem to think it's a crime to pass them or have to give the whole "Dude, knobbies dude, I'm passing you dude. Like stay on your side of the lane dude." And God forbid you come to a light when a whole gaggle of them are riding the same road! They act like they are in the peloton throwing elbows and positioning to break the tape on stage 20.

The main reason I ask is I borrowed a co-workers road bike (1st time on a road bike despite being an mtber for 12 years and riding bmx for 13 or so) the other day to see if it messed with my shoulder to ride (I "sort of" destroyed my shoulder riding a few weeks ago) because riding my cruiser for fitness is NOT going to happen (single speed with the ape hanger bars and the big ass seat). While on his bike for the day I noticed the roadie cats were not as hostile and even sort of cool to me when I was obviously gassed and dying for air. I have tested it twice now and had the results I would have expected.

I would be interested in your thoughts. Please save any of your comments that I am judging and blah, blah, blah. I am asking a question not trying to convince you all roadies are bad so slow down there fella. Maybe I was not the same while on the road rig. I wore the same gear and such (mtb helmet, camleback, baggies, etc). I don't know. What's up?

K.


This could lead into an interesting debate and/or an ugly battle between the two groups.

As a female, I've often thought that roadies were a lot more sexist than MTBers; Mountain Bikers (male and female) seem to encourage and support girls while road cycling seems to view women as insuperior and mere eye-candy. Yet, i still love it.

Maybe it's a macho bravado thing?

And, perhaps, due to the fact that mountain biking was born out of a counter-culture, mountain bikers seem to embrace all types in the sport...?

Kind of off-topic but just a thought i had...
 
Good thoughts from all. I don't really ever want to ride (voluntarily) in a pack with any of these guys/gals especially since they present as having the NASCAR mentality that "rubbin' is racin'!" Oh, well. They likely don't want to strap on some armor and slide down rocks and call a good ride any one that puts a new dent in their body or helmet. Thanks again and keep on truckin', I mean riding!

babe: you can make it a word if you really want (think of gnarly's humble beginnings). We could just start using it and soon enough Websters could catch-on to it!

K.
 
Originally posted by rek
I think the attitude would be mostly because mountain bikers, who would spend most of their riding time largely to themselves on the singletrack, are likely to have poor road pack-riding skills -- which would make them a liability (crash/erraticness wise) in a paceline..

My bike is a hybrid that looks more like a MTB than anything else, but I am almost exclusively a road rider who rides pretty much alone. So much so that next May, my current ride will be retired to "bad weather" bike and I will be purchasing a roadie.

Quite often, when I have ventured away from my own area, and I wave at other cyclists, the roadies ignore me more often than not. It seems it is beneath them - in their "look-at-me" team jerseys and shorts - to wave at someone waring a Nike dri-fit t-shirt and baggy shorts on an mtb.

It is arrogance pure and simple.

There are exceptions, of course, including a great guy I rode along with last week. He was on a 'Dale R2000 and we rode together for about 10 miles until are paths diverged.
 
Hmm.. I have no personal experience with the situation since I very rarely (almost never) actually see a road biker (Dying breed? Non-Existant in Northern Ohio?). I think I can understand the bias though.

First, almost every bike that is sold now is a mountain bike. My LBS had one hybred and a couple tandems the last time I was there. The rest of the stock was ALL mountain bikes. (Or those little BMX things). Mountain bikes are no longer specialized machines for challenging trail riding.

Any kid that gets a bike gets a Mountain bike. They ride on sidewalks, often narrowly avoiding hitting pedestrians. They jump curbs to cut across intersections without paying attention to where they're going.

Is this all mountain bike riders? Of course not!! Is it the majority? well.. yes (at least the majority of what I have seen).

Here in Ohio, cyclists ride around town and past my house all day long. Most are mountain bikes, followed by BMX bikes. The MB and BMX (what DOES that stand for anyway?) riders ride on the sidewalks rather than the street where they are supposed to be. when they ARE on the street, it is usually cutting from one side to the other with little or no regard to traffic, or bindly charging across intersections.

That is the vast majority of bikes that I see. There are a small handful of 10 speeds that I see every once in a while around here (usually with their handle bars turned upside down so that they look like a bull's horns), these are occasionally ridden on the street, but you are just as likely to see them on the sidewalks as well.

Of course this is unfair to serious, responsible, riders who have mountain bikes because they enjoy trail riding and obey traffic regulations and ride in a sane manner, but the fact is that they are in a small minority.

As for the bias against cruisers, I don't really understand that one.

Originally posted by ireman_1
Is there a rule somewhere in the roadie handbook that compells some to act as though they are some superior brand of cyborg when faced with a mountain biker riding on the road? I know, I know this may be an exception more than the rule, but more and more I am noticing when I ride either my mtb or cruiser the road cats seem to think it's a crime to pass them or have to give the whole "Dude, knobbies dude, I'm passing you dude. Like stay on your side of the lane dude." And God forbid you come to a light when a whole gaggle of them are riding the same road! They act like they are in the peloton throwing elbows and positioning to break the tape on stage 20.

The main reason I ask is I borrowed a co-workers road bike (1st time on a road bike despite being an mtber for 12 years and riding bmx for 13 or so) the other day to see if it messed with my shoulder to ride (I "sort of" destroyed my shoulder riding a few weeks ago) because riding my cruiser for fitness is NOT going to happen (single speed with the ape hanger bars and the big ass seat). While on his bike for the day I noticed the roadie cats were not as hostile and even sort of cool to me when I was obviously gassed and dying for air. I have tested it twice now and had the results I would have expected.

I would be interested in your thoughts. Please save any of your comments that I am judging and blah, blah, blah. I am asking a question not trying to convince you all roadies are bad so slow down there fella. Maybe I was not the same while on the road rig. I wore the same gear and such (mtb helmet, camleback, baggies, etc). I don't know. What's up?

K.
 
I think stevenaleach, hit the nail on the head. Go down to WalyWorld and what kind of bikes do they have?
 
Originally posted by ireman_1
Is there a rule somewhere in the roadie handbook that compells some to act as though they are some superior brand of cyborg when faced with a mountain biker riding on the road?

This is an interesting subject matter and one I think I can actually comment on with some accuracy having transitioned over to road cycling from a 10 year mountain biking history.

"Accuracy" first off might be a hasty word since, like in all other things in life concerning people, "individual" is the operative word, but there are a few very solid facts when comparing when MTB's and road bikes meet on the road that I think can be used to shed more light on what the truth actually is.

Mountain biking is generally more "technical" than road biking, not that road biking contains no level of technical skill, but rather, when mountain biking, it is more common to slow to a crawl, even stop, assess a situation, then attack it. Because of this, the action of "pauses" in a ride is normal, as is the conversation between riders during these pauses.

Because the emphasis in road cycling is a generally consistent, more predictable riding surface, and much longer distances at speed, "pauses" are much rarer, and not generally normal. In addition, to be competitive in road cycling, these pauses and slowdowns are things to be vigorously avoided at all costs since it is normal to gauge one's competence with interval times over an unchanging route. In contrast, as a mountain biker, time is of little value, only survival and avoiding serious injury is of value. The reward being able to traverse rough obstacles and terrain with confidence.

How does just this first point manifest itself on the road? Unless you are a VERY serious mountain biker in excellent physical condition, a competent road cyclist on a decent rig will undoubtedly pass you at a significant difference in speed. To a mountain biker on the street this may appear as "arrogance" or a "stay out of my way you moving pothole" attitude, but in the same way you, as a mountain biker would show irritation if someone busted up your wood bridge crossing over a stream, a road cyclist trying to improve themselves will be distracted by an inconsistency they need to be wary of and may potential destroy their rythm...

I've had people on mountain and comfort bikes that I pass on the road yell obscenities at me simply because I passed them when the only thing on my mind was the road, my cadence, and my split time...

Even though I am riding for the fun of it, just like they are, I am also riding to improve, and so I have to adopt a certain level of output... I love seeing other cyclists on the road, but because I don't slow down and say "hi" when I am concentrating on my lactic acid levels in my legs doesn't mean that I'm trying to be mean.

Riding the trails on a mountain bike is a visceral and very dynamic experience, always something different happening, always something new popping up (sometimes to bite you right in the ass *laughing*) and very often the biggest thrill is to ride somewhere challenging and "new" somewhere you haven't been before. To a road cyclist, this "haven't been there before" is called "time"...

Road cycling is all about consistency, and smashing thru previous levels of performance on often the very same or similar routes. Because of this it is VERY common to almost go trancelike while ticking away your cadence on the pedals. In concert with this, road cyclists (and MTB'ers to a smaller degree) reach a "zone" a very important level of output where they can continue to hammer at a competitive pace while actually maintaining the bodies equilibrium of energy usage vs output vs lactic acid buildup.

That steady state is almost like Nirvana to a road cyclist and ANYTHING that interupts that balance is sheer hell, stop signs, traffic lights, flats, and yes, other cyclists... So when a roadie passes you and acknowledges your "howdy!" with a small head nod, 9 times out of ten it is NOT arrogance...

Think of it like someone building something, vs someone playing a musical instrument... You walk up to someone building a cabinet and they stop and say "how are you doing!" but it's general knowledge that if someone was say, playing a piece on the guitar, that your walking up and talking to them is breaking a level of concentration and consistency... Road biking is often like this.

Now, I'm not saying that if you're both at a traffic light and stopped, and you say "hi!" to a roadie and he responds with a sneer, that this is acceptable behavior, but when one blasts by you, recognize that you may very well be on a standard course he/she uses and they are 10 seconds ahead of their best time for that interval and pushing hard. For a roadie that feels the same as when you graduate from the 5 foot vertical drop to the 10 :)

You can't EVER convince me that bravado is not alive and well on the trails and single track either... I came from there and it is alive with a vengeance, when you see a pack of road bikers displaying the same bravado, it is not something new to MTB'ers, it is only in a different form :)

I ride exclusively on the road now, I wear pro-team jerseys all the time, i constantly try to get better (sometimes my mind pushing harder than my body can take) I have no animosity toward any other cyclists on the road no matter what they are riding, but I take my riding VERY seriously... On the road, I concentrate, and concentrate HARD... but at the end of the ride, no matter how well or poorly I do, I'll be the first one to come over and say "hi!" and buy you and your buddies a beer...

Next time you see a roadie, think of it more as seeing someone playing an instrument...

Have a good one!

Feanor
 
Originally posted by ireman_1
Is there a rule somewhere in the roadie handbook that compells some to act as though they are some superior brand of cyborg when faced with a mountain biker riding on the road? I know, I know this may be an exception more than the rule, but more and more I am noticing when I ride either my mtb or cruiser the road cats seem to think it's a crime to pass them or have to give the whole "Dude, knobbies dude, I'm passing you dude. Like stay on your side of the lane dude." And God forbid you come to a light when a whole gaggle of them are riding the same road! They act like they are in the peloton throwing elbows and positioning to break the tape on stage 20.

The main reason I ask is I borrowed a co-workers road bike (1st time on a road bike despite being an mtber for 12 years and riding bmx for 13 or so) the other day to see if it messed with my shoulder to ride (I "sort of" destroyed my shoulder riding a few weeks ago) because riding my cruiser for fitness is NOT going to happen (single speed with the ape hanger bars and the big ass seat). While on his bike for the day I noticed the roadie cats were not as hostile and even sort of cool to me when I was obviously gassed and dying for air. I have tested it twice now and had the results I would have expected.

I would be interested in your thoughts. Please save any of your comments that I am judging and blah, blah, blah. I am asking a question not trying to convince you all roadies are bad so slow down there fella. Maybe I was not the same while on the road rig. I wore the same gear and such (mtb helmet, camleback, baggies, etc). I don't know. What's up?

K.

i notice the same attitude your talking about, i would ride the street or city paths for a steady work out, and they dont wave, pass and say hello and they ignore well it ended up making me a better cyclist cuz i told myself i would not let a roadie out ride
me on my mtb, i would attack them and win because it was pride
yes this mtber can ride! i was passed by a roadie once and i then
passed him, under his breath he said shshiid, he clicked his
gears and took off id did the same stayed on his wheel for
about a block then i attacked him and gave him that lance look
like lets go i dusted him and felt great, those were some of my best intervals. anyways i told myself id never ride rd because
it was for wimps & snobs and just didnt seem like fun rideing
smooth streets, well i moved farther from the trails and decided
to get a rd bike and when i ride now they wave& speak, so
im convinced it was the mtb.
 
Thanks for the thoughts Feanor. I know we (real mountain bikers) tend to put a bit of macho in our rides once in a while. I guess the next time I am able to get back on my SC I will have to play my guitar at the same time, maybe the road cats will smile then. ;-) Ride well bro.

K.
 
I agree 100% with Feanor here. I have both a road bike and a mountian bike and spend about 50/50 on each.
The nature of the two sports is exactly as Feanor described.

Have a good one.

Leon
 
Feanor does have a good point if Ireman said the attitude was
when HE got passed by roadies but IREMAN SAID THIS

but more and more I am noticing when I ride either my mtb or cruiser the road cats seem to think it's a crime to PASS THEM or have to give the whole "Dude, knobbies dude, I'm passing you dude. Like stay on your side of the lane dude." And God forbid you come to a light when a whole gaggle of them are riding the same road! They act like they are in the peloton throwing elbows and positioning to break the tape on stage 20.

the attitude i get is like, your on a mtb you shouldnt be passing
on a mtb and riding on the street. i dont see why anyone would
have an attitude when getting passed, wether on a mtb or hand cycle. also Feanor theres lots of differant types of mtbing, xc,
downhill, trials, ect it not always looking for a new trail or stoping
to negotiate a drop, i rode xc and a lot of the same trails and would try to break my personal time records like rd riding.
but hey wether we ride dirt or street we are all still cyclist,
so we should all just get along :)
 
Watch the hands...watch the hands...most of the time a roadie will just flatten his palm like a wave because he is pushing his breathing limit.

BUT...when I am out on my road bike, which is all I ride, the young studs in pro gear are very often snide and that's a fact. They do in fact sneer at anyone who does not meet their specifications. They sneer at me, I guess because I am 42 and they think I am washed up. One of these days I am going to ride one of those little buggers into a trough, show him the end he hasn't seen yet, and tell him to come see me in 10 years for another just like it :)
 
Road biking seems to draw some real snots. Fortunately not that many, but they are a tedious lot. Young, insecure, gotta prove something to the world, and if they can't prove it, fake it with an attitude. Groan! Yeah, I remember when I had my head up my backside, too...

Any recumbent riders out there - you sense the same thing?

I always wave or speak, regardless of what they ride. And when I meet up with people on a MTB trail, the greeting is about the same - a quick nod, because you're watching the trail.

But be honest - if you're primarily a road person, you will feel a stronger kinship with a fellow road rider. They know how to ride, you can join up and not worry about them running into you. Anyone on a decent bike is a potential riding partner, who won't flame out after ten miles, or feel the need to prove something every time you pass them. So while I'm never unfriendly to anyone propelling themself, I will go out of my way to stop and chat with a serious road rider.
 
I couldn't have wrote it better than Feanor. Right on target.

I'm a 50/50 MTBer and Roadie...depending on the type of workout and skills I want to improve on for any given day. Then environment and the tools (bike) dictate how the rider will behave...
 
I had this same problem. I own a road bike, MTB, and track bike, and always used to do a road riding session with a local club (with lots of 'we throw money at the problem' riders in the group...you know...the 'I ride like ****, but own a De Rosa Titanium, with Campy Record 10speed, and Mavic Ksyrium SL's' types..).

One weekend I had wheel problems on the road bike, and put slicks on the MTB, and went to do the road ride...boy were the 'roadies' ****** when this 100kg MTB'er just stuck with them in the bunch, took his turns up front (42 chainring being the biggest), and when we hit the 9km major climb of the day, I was sticking with the fancy people on their sub 9kg bikes (ok so my MTB is also a light XC unit), and then on the decent, I was able to really annoy them (hydraulic disk brakes are great!)

I think MTB'ers will always find it difficult getting respect from roadies, but ask any MTB'er that's done a 80 or 100km endurance race....roadies are wussies! Just roadies will never admit it unless they try it. I was a roadie, I tried mtb'ing, I'm a convert.

On the plus side, I find people that mix mtb'ing and road riding to be far more competent on the bike, and having far better bike control. I suppose it comes from try to prevent kissing some gravel or tree on the trails.

But nothing ever beats going in to the forest after a long week, climbing the high peak and looking at the spectacular view.

just my 2c....
 
Well, well, well. Doesn't it strike you as odd that there are so many people that ride bikes other than road bikes and winge so much. Who cares if someone buys a top of the range C40 with Campy Record and only manages an average of 25kmph. This person will spend close to 4hrs doing the average 100km ride.

I ride both XC and road competitively and don't have a problem with either. I am also priveledged enough to train with some professional riders from time to time and I have never seen them not greet somebody regardless of what kind of bike they were riding, unless they were preoccupied with the fun and games in the pack.

I have encountered some MTB riders who display the very qualities you are associating with roadies. Trick bikes with XTR components, hydraulics and crossmax rims. I take it these guys always win. (except me, of course, as I have a good looking MTB with some trick bits, but it doesn't make me a better rider, but I like my bike)

And why may I ask, if you enjoy MTBing so much, do you venture onto the road. I find riding my MTB on the road, utterly boring. It just doesn't feel right.

Worry about what you're doing, not about what others are.

and don't be mistaken. I am the friendliest, most full of nonsence rider you will ever encounter. Both on and off the road.
 
Lots of good points by everyone...

I think that what we're looking at here is nothing more than the completely normal human phenomena of feeling affinity for those who are similar to you, and trepidation and hesitation at those who are in some way "different"

And just like in all other things in life, there is a simple cure "knowledge"... :)

If you track back thru all the messages you'll find a trend... the one's who have done both mountain biking and road biking to some degree will see that the two disciplines share many of the same characteristics, albeit in vastly different forms; there is still the urge to compete, the thrill of a challenge, the excitement of bettering yourself, the satisfaction of personal goals achieved, the confidence gained in honing skill and technical prowess...

When you observe reactions or opinions from individuals who stay almost exlusively in one discipline or the other, the feelings are far more distilled within the confines of the "group", this tends to manifest more as the negative, because those views reinforce the group you are in...

There is nothing new about this, in fact some, like me, would see it as a wonderful opportunity to advance knowledge and learn totally new things.

For every stone hurled by one side, there is an equally justified reply from the other: I've met the roadies with attitude, but also I've been on the trails with a group of Mountainbikers, and a cyclocross rider went by, and you wouldn't believe the things they said about him after he passed, not to mention the large percentage of people in our group who had never even HEARD of cyclocross. The concensus of the group that day was "What is HE doing in OUR world?!?!" Think of that next time you pass a roadie on the road while on your mountain bike, and if you were a mountain biker, think of how you might feel if a guy on a cyclocross rig passed you on the downhill while you were on your upteen thousand dollar full suspension ride... With knowledge of both skills you might see it as a "crossover" while if you were in one group or the other it feels more like a "violation"...

There are exceptions to every rule, and individuals who will hammer on the other side no matter how much experience or information they have, but the simple truth is, the vast VAST majority of people would be far more understanding, tolerant and even enthusiastic after they experienced the thrills of the other groups, and they would be better people and riders for it.

Funny how all of the above applies to far more than cycling isn't it? :)

Ride well all!

Feanor
 
We are all cyclists at heart. We are all human beings. Some human beings are conceited, arrogant arseholes. Some of them ride bikes.
I have met arrogant, sneering self obsessed idiots at mountain bike races. Equally I have met fantastic, friendly and helpful roadies.
Just ride, if you meet someone who is a clown do what you would do in any other social situation, ignore them and speak with someone who is more friendly.