Muscle aches and statins

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by John, Oct 4, 2003.

  1. John

    John Guest

    How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
    Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
    I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
    6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
    muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
    joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
    aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
    disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.

    John
     
    Tags:


  2. Steve Marcus

    Steve Marcus Guest

    "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:031020032228501851%[email protected]
    >
    > How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
    > Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
    > I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
    > 6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
    > muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
    > joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
    > aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
    > disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.
    >
    > John


    John,

    Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming rare
    in this newsgroup.

    I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage. Both
    before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
    moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
    (Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way which
    has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have never
    had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to the
    Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take periodic
    blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and by
    the makers of Pravachol.

    Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because studies
    now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L are
    benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now, and
    have experienced no side effects.

    While you state that you are among those who experience side effects from
    Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
    statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
    drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on liver
    function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the drug
    should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
    anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the side
    effects on their own.

    While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
    opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
    Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is a
    distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you are
    helping be doing that.

    No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.

    Steve
    --
    The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
    because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
    should not be construed as either. This posting does not
    represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
    view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3
     
  3. Pete Connors

    Pete Connors Guest

    On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 08:29:26 GMT, John <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
    >Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
    >I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
    >6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
    >muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
    >joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
    >aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
    >disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.
    >
    >John


    Thank you for communicating your experiences, John.
    I made the original post because, although I was almost certain that I
    had had an exercise injury, I was curious to see if anyone knew how
    statin-related muscle pain might present initially. I can accept that
    the effects might be subtle in some, although I for one would be
    prepared to trade off some negative subtleties against the positives
    indicated in double blind trials.
    I have been on Lipitor for almost eight years; my current dose
    is 40mg because my cardiologist is one that agrees with the studies
    that indicate <100 mg/L is better. I am 57 in a few weeks and I
    exercise aerobically for at least an hour on alternate days at up to
    95% intensity. My left upper arm injury was the first persistent, not
    unexplained muscle pain that I had experienced in those almost eight
    years. Perhaps I should have gone to an orthopaedist but the pain was
    very limited in extent.
    I have had two private email communications telling me of
    experiences with muscle pain and with other symptoms, one of which,
    cognitive deficit, I am also interested in. I was first curious about
    this initially because of the reported 'pump head' effects - mostly
    short but sometimes long term - in some people after being on a bypass
    machine. I subsequently revived my interest after reading of the
    apparent statin effect. I can only report that six months, and then
    seven years, after my 3xCABG, my IQ magnitudes and test-dependent IQ
    spread were entirely comparable to that found when I was 11 years old.

    Pete C
     
  4. John

    John Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Steve Marcus
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:031020032228501851%[email protected]
    > >
    > > How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
    > > Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
    > > I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
    > > 6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
    > > muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
    > > joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
    > > aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
    > > disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.
    > >
    > > John

    >
    > John,
    >
    > Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming rare
    > in this newsgroup.
    >
    > I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage. Both
    > before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
    > moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
    > (Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way which
    > has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have never
    > had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to the
    > Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take periodic
    > blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and by
    > the makers of Pravachol.
    >
    > Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because studies
    > now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L are
    > benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now, and
    > have experienced no side effects.
    >
    > While you state that you are among those who experience side effects from
    > Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
    > statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
    > drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on liver
    > function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the drug
    > should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
    > anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the side
    > effects on their own.
    >
    > While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
    > opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
    > Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is a
    > distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you are
    > helping be doing that.
    >
    > No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.
    >
    > Steve


    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the response and the admonishment. Let me clarify/supplement
    my remarks.

    During the 5 years I was on Lipitor, I had several episodes of
    Transient Global Amnesia, and experienced my first ever migraine
    headaches. Also during this period I tended toward soreness in my
    muscles even though I exercise regularly and have for 35 years. About 1
    year ago, my LDL level began to go up, so my Dr. increased my Lipitor
    from 10mg to 20mg a day. After about two months at that dosage, I was
    having 2- 3 migraines a week, I could "feel" my brain all the time, and
    my muscles were beginning to both hurt and weaken. So, my Dr put me on
    20mg of Pravachol, and in a a couple of weeks the migraines had
    stopped, I no longer "felt" my brain, and my muscles and joints were
    beginning to feel stronger with less pain. I continued at 20mg of
    Pravachol for about 3 months, had bloodwork done, and my Dr decided to
    raise my Pravachol to 40mg. After about 2 weeks at that level, the
    muscle weakness and joint pain started up again. However, I hasten to
    add that my brain felt fine: no migraines, no brain awareness. Now my
    Dr has put me on Zetia saying (good naturedly) that I flunked 2 statin
    tests.

    Here's what I think: Dosage is all. I also believe that the effects of
    Statins for some people are subtle at low dosages and may go virtually
    unrecognized by them. I also think that Pravachol leaves the brain
    alone but not the muscles and joints whereas Lipitor gets into both.

    John
     
  5. Steve Marcus

    Steve Marcus Guest

    "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:061020031117022450%[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>, Steve Marcus
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:031020032228501851%[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
    > > > Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
    > > > I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor

    and
    > > > 6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
    > > > muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
    > > > joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
    > > > aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
    > > > disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.
    > > >
    > > > John

    > >
    > > John,
    > >
    > > Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming

    rare
    > > in this newsgroup.
    > >
    > > I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage.

    Both
    > > before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
    > > moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
    > > (Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way

    which
    > > has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have

    never
    > > had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to

    the
    > > Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take

    periodic
    > > blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and

    by
    > > the makers of Pravachol.
    > >
    > > Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because

    studies
    > > now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L

    are
    > > benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now,

    and
    > > have experienced no side effects.
    > >
    > > While you state that you are among those who experience side effects

    from
    > > Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
    > > statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
    > > drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on

    liver
    > > function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the

    drug
    > > should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
    > > anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the

    side
    > > effects on their own.
    > >
    > > While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
    > > opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
    > > Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is

    a
    > > distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you

    are
    > > helping be doing that.
    > >
    > > No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.
    > >
    > > Steve

    >
    > Hi Steve,
    >
    > Thanks for the response and the admonishment. Let me clarify/supplement
    > my remarks.
    >
    > During the 5 years I was on Lipitor, I had several episodes of
    > Transient Global Amnesia, and experienced my first ever migraine
    > headaches. Also during this period I tended toward soreness in my
    > muscles even though I exercise regularly and have for 35 years. About 1
    > year ago, my LDL level began to go up, so my Dr. increased my Lipitor
    > from 10mg to 20mg a day. After about two months at that dosage, I was
    > having 2- 3 migraines a week, I could "feel" my brain all the time, and
    > my muscles were beginning to both hurt and weaken. So, my Dr put me on
    > 20mg of Pravachol, and in a a couple of weeks the migraines had
    > stopped, I no longer "felt" my brain, and my muscles and joints were
    > beginning to feel stronger with less pain. I continued at 20mg of
    > Pravachol for about 3 months, had bloodwork done, and my Dr decided to
    > raise my Pravachol to 40mg. After about 2 weeks at that level, the
    > muscle weakness and joint pain started up again. However, I hasten to
    > add that my brain felt fine: no migraines, no brain awareness. Now my
    > Dr has put me on Zetia saying (good naturedly) that I flunked 2 statin
    > tests.
    >
    > Here's what I think: Dosage is all. I also believe that the effects of
    > Statins for some people are subtle at low dosages and may go virtually
    > unrecognized by them. I also think that Pravachol leaves the brain
    > alone but not the muscles and joints whereas Lipitor gets into both.


    Zetia seems to be a nice drug, and the reports are favorable when it is used
    both by itself and in combination with statins. I hope that it works well
    for you. Interestingly, when I asked my doctor about it, he said that it
    was a drug that he really thought was great, but he declined to prescribe it
    for me on the grounds that my experience with Pravachol was so positive that
    he saw no need to disturb it by introducing another drug.

    People are indeed individuals. I would agree that there are some people who
    cannot tolerate statins at all, and more who can tolerate some of the
    statins without any of the side effects, but can not tolerate other statins.
    And there are people who would be able to tolerate any of the statins (save,
    perhaps Baycol); however this is sort of irrelevant since if one can
    tolerate the statin chosen by one's doctor, there's no need to look further.

    People who have cardiac issues should see the appropriate physician.
    Everyone should have regular checkups that include blood work that in turn
    includes lipid panels. In both cases, people should thereafter follow the
    advice of their doctor; if a statin is prescribed, the prescription should
    be used with the appropriate in-progress blood work to check on both the
    progress with reducing cholesterol level and in particular LDL levels, and
    liver function. This, coupled with the appropriate life-style changes as
    recommend by one's physician, seems to me to be the prudent course of
    action.

    >
    > John


    Steve
    --
    The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
    because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
    should not be construed as either. This posting does not
    represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
    view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3
     
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