muscle build

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by TIGER TRAX, May 2, 2006.

  1. TIGER TRAX

    TIGER TRAX New Member

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    hi
    i want to bulk up abit muscle wise and tone up abit i find its a slow process and want to speed it up abit so im looking at maybe a whey protein product or something like that if anyone knows of a brand or product that is suitable then pls let me kniow

    cheers TT
     
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  2. mikesbytes

    mikesbytes New Member

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    How many grams of protein do you want to eat per day?
     
  3. Equus123

    Equus123 New Member

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    why are you trying to quicken the pace of nature? just change the way you lift. if you take more protein alone, that won't do jack to make you gain more muscle. you need to modify your strength training and with taking a little more protein (to help with the recovery and regeneration of new muscle tissue), you will "get bigger". if you want more mass, lift with a lot of sets of low # reps - 5x4 or 4x5 with about 60-90 seconds rest between sets. that kind of lifting creates a gain in strength and force whereas the typical cycling lifting program calls for 3x15-20 which builds endurance strength. BIG difference.

    don't think you can cheat nature because there are all these pills out there that promise this and promise that. its all crap. the faster you lose weight if you're on them, the faster you'll gain it back (and more!) when you stop. just do it the right way and you won't have any problems.
     
  4. Orange Fish

    Orange Fish New Member

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    Just eat more calories. Simple as that. Lone protein supplementation is not necessary for most people. We typically get more than enough protein on a daily basis.
     
  5. nerdag

    nerdag New Member

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    Mostly true, however, a protein loading after exercise is a very good way to promote the process.

    To cut a long story short, to bulk up, what you actually need to do is damage the muscle fibres that are used. As they repair, your muscle will get larger.

    The best way to do that is target each group of muscles that you want to bulk up, and then do as many set of lifts at about 80% or your maximum weight as you can (warm up and cool down lifts are very useful here). Doing maximum weight lifts is good for strength, but does not do much for size, so repetitive lifting at lower weights that you can sustain is the key here.

    Lifting is great for muscle bulk, although whether lifting is any use to you as a cyclist - that has been debated ad nauseum and you'll get many different opinons.

    HTH,

    nerdag
     
  6. Orange Fish

    Orange Fish New Member

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    Only if adequate carbohydrate and protein consumption is not consumed immediately post-exercise. There is no need to "load" with protein. That will help promote a positive Nitrogen balance to keep your body in an anabolic state. However, any protein that is not needed by the body will simply be excreted in the urine.

    Right on about the lifting. The 8-12 rep range should be the goal for muscle hypertrophy (increasing size of the muscle), which is approximately 70-80% of your 1RM (1 repetition maximum).
     
  7. originalolol

    originalolol New Member

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    It is impossible to differentiate between bulking and toning
    the only thing you can do is build build, maintain muscle or lose muscle
    tone is simply loss of bodyfat making the muscle look better
     
  8. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    That depends on your current lean mass.
    For example, I have 170 lbs of lean mass (weight on my body that isnt fat), and i eat 300g protein per day, spread out over 6 meals.
     
  9. originalolol

    originalolol New Member

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    Yeh iv read 1-2g of protein per pound of lean body weight is a good starting block

    iv tried protein shakes, but found i was putting on extra weight (not lean) so stopped

    i like creatine though, but not sure how much is phychological and how much is physical :confused:
     
  10. mikesbytes

    mikesbytes New Member

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    It's not necessary to eat that much protein 1g per lbs of weight per day is all thats requied - check the body building sites. The body just gets rid of the excess protein. I weigh 76kg, so for me its 76 * 2.2 = 167gms.
     
  11. bikelet

    bikelet New Member

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    If you need protein or want an insurance policy to make sure you are getting enough, just make a milkshake with lots of skim milk powder. It'll give you all the essential amino acids you need and will be a lot cheaper than protein supplements
     
  12. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    Protein suppliments are actually very cheap when comparing it to the same amount of protein you would get from real food (i.e. meat).
    I'm not saying a person should ever make their entire daily diet from whey products, but taking whey (protein) shakes inbetween meals is a great way to keep you're weight up when trying to bulk up.

    The best way to put on muscle is to take in more calories than you burn.

    So for example, per day, if you burned 1800 calories at rest, and another 200 from exercise (2000 total burned), you should be eating 2300-2500 cal/day spread out over 6 meals (to best prevent fat from being gained).

    If you choose to go with the 1g protein/lb, that's fine.
    Also make sure you get approx 50g-60g fat per day to keep your hormone levels up, and then have the rest of your calories come from carbs.
    These carbs should be low GI, such as sweet potatos, brown rice, and whole grains/oats.
    When bulking, keep the sugar and fructose (fruit) levels to a minimum.


    So for example:
    Meal 1: 48g protein, 50g carb, 4g fat (10 egg whites, 1 cup plain oats)
    Meal 2: 48g protein, 4g carb, 16g fat (2 scoops of chocolate protein powder, 2tbsp natural peanut butter - YUM:))
    Meal 3: 48g protein, 50g carb, 4g fat (6oz chicken breast, 7oz sweet potato)
    Meal 4: 48g protein, 4g carb, 16g fat (same as meal 2)

    [Lift 2 hrs after meal 4]

    Meal 5: 55g protein, 120g carb, 0g fat (after lifting shake - take right after lifting)
    Meal 6: 55g protein, 120g carb, 0g fat (chicken + pasta, etc - eat 2 hrs after lifting)


    This is the whey powder i use:
    http://atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=1

    But you can find much cheaper if you want:
    http://supplementmarket.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/10/products_id/39
     
  13. discobean7

    discobean7 New Member

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    That's a way to put on FAT. Our bodies are designed to store excess calories as fat. There is no magic way to transform extra calories into muscle. Also I'm not sure where you guys are getting your numbers. For starters the US RDA for protein is 0.8g/KG of body weight. This is easily obtained in the diet of most people. For athletes protein supplementation is generally accepted to be 1.0-1.5g/KG of body weight. Really no studies show a benefit above 1.8g/KG. Any excess protein will be excreted in the urine forcing the kidneys to needlessly process more nitrogenous waste.
     
  14. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    Please do some research before posting things like that as fact.
    If you eat clean (healthy), eat slightly above the calories you burn (300-500 more per day), and progressivly lift heavier and heavier weights each week, you will put on lean mass (muscle).
    I've been doing it for years. This is how it's done, it works.

    Read any bodybuilding article, book, etc about gaining lean mass - all of them will agree that you need to eat more than your body burns.
     
  15. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    Here, i'll do the leg work for you....

    This is a professional natural bodybuilder
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne.htm

    This is him explaining how he puts on muscle...
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne23.htm

    This is another one of his articles on protein in general...
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne3.htm


    And if you don't trust him either....
    Here is a list of 64 different guides to putting on muscle...
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=MassGainDiets


    Yes there is - LIFT HARD, and lift harder and harder each weak.
    Combine this with a healthy diet @ a calorie surplus, give it time, and you will slowly add more and more muscle.
     
  16. discobean7

    discobean7 New Member

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  17. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    No, you'll put on weight. There's a difference.

    Please see my previous post where i link to more than 64 articles explaining this.
    I dont want to waste any more time on this before you do your own research.
     
  18. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Most of what you have written I would agree with (it does seem like your intake is a bit high, but if you are doing fine with it I would not criticize the amount).
    My former background was a higher level competitive bodybuilder and consultant to high level competitors all the way up to the pro ranks.

    We used to have this saying, "If you want to be big you have to eat big."

    Back in the day my meal schedule was eating every 2 hours from 5 am to 10 pm. While my protein wasn't as high as your intake I did at times take in near 1.5 grams per 1 pound of bodyweight) a bit excessive, but until I was taking in those levels of protein my lean mass was not increasing.

    I now consume about 1 gram per 1 pound of bodyweight because I am not a competitor and I am able to recover just fine on this amount, but if I go lower than this amount I find myself struggling to recover from my 6 to 7 day a week training schedule.

    I don't get into debating this issue anymore. People can either believe it or not, but I will say unless one is tremendously blessed with the right genetics one cannot gain a significant amount of lean mass and become tone/lean at the same time.

    The following links are typical showing Australian pro bodybuilder Lee Priest in the bulked up ( fat ) offseason shape and then in contest condition.

    I did this as well. Bulk in the offseason / Lean out in for competition

    Offseason

    Competition


    I am finding personally that for cycling being as light as possible is adventageous. So it is completely opposite from my former mindset.
     
  19. wh0areume

    wh0areume New Member

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    Lee Priest isnt an example of someone on a slow bulk in that first picture.
    If you consume only 300-500 more calories per day that you burn, you will put on very little fat, and still gain 0.25 - 1 lb of lean mass per week. (assuming your training is correct)

    You just have to be patient... It's a slow process. :)
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    That is only applicable to individual genetics as to how their body composition will respond.
    That is the problem amongst many low level gym/fitness trainers.

    They have a template that they apply to everyone and then they cannot figure why their client isn't responding. Some will respond because they just happen to fit the mold of the template.

    I do not train or setup dietary intake for an ectomorph the same as an endomorph even if both have similar goals.
     
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