Museeuw: I'm sorta of a doper



fscyclist

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Serafino said:
:rolleyes:

A doper who denied being a doper "gains your respect" especially since he only admitted being a doper (and "only" wink, wink, in his last year of competition) after already being embroiled in legal difficulties and being exposed by many parties.

Kind of like Frankie coming clean only after alleging (without proof by his own admission) others doped but conveniently forgetting to mention that he doped himself.

Real heroes :rolleyes:
Frankie's confession is nothing like JM's. JM is going on trial and a major newspaper outed him. I'd liken JM's confession to something like Millar's.

Frankie came forth voluntarily months after the deposition was over. He's not facing any criminal charges. I don't know what you mean by Frankie making allegations without any proof. According to Frankie, Armstrong confessed in front of him and others in a hospital room. What other proof would he need?!!

Would you really expect Frankie to admit doping in a deposition that had nothing to do with him? If you were called to testify as a witness, would you then confess to the judge every bad thing you did in your life?
 

Serafino

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fscyclist said:
Frankie's confession is nothing like JM's. JM is going on trial and a major newspaper outed him. I'd liken JM's confession to something like Millar's.

Frankie came forth voluntarily months after the deposition was over. He's not facing any criminal charges. I don't know what you mean by Frankie making allegations without any proof. According to Frankie, Armstrong confessed in front of him and others in a hospital room. What other proof would he need?!!

Would you really expect Frankie to admit doping in a deposition that had nothing to do with him? If you were called to testify as a witness, would you then confess to the judge every bad thing you did in your life?
Frankie is a liar. He came out AFTER he was fired by Toyota-United. I wonder what reason they might have had for the termination. Why didn't he admit that he was a doper when he was on the witness stand. A trial which led to the insurance company having to pay $7.5 million USD instead of $5 million USD to Armstong.

As for the "confession" ask yourself why nobody else in the room (doctors, nurses, etc.) has come forward. Was anything in LA's medical records during treatment which recorded any such "confession".

Frankie was a doper who, in the end, came out and admitted that he never saw LA dope, or had any evidence of LA doping, or heard of LA doping or was approached, aided or advised by anyone at USPS to dope himself. Nonetheless, dope he did when he couldn't keep up.

Face it, Frankie is no angel. In fact, had he not been fired by Toyota-United (and I presume in danger of being outed) he'd still be playing the innocent choir boy.
 

strummer_fan

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Serafino said:
:rolleyes:

A doper who denied being a doper "gains your respect" especially since he only admitted being a doper (and "only" wink, wink, in his last year of competition) after already being embroiled in legal difficulties and being exposed by many parties.

Kind of like Frankie coming clean only after alleging (without proof by his own admission) others doped but conveniently forgetting to mention that he doped himself.

Real heroes :rolleyes:
The respect comes from the fact that he could have done just as all of the people who have been caught have done. Deny Deny Deny. Hamilton and others, including the precious Mennonite lad from my home state (Pennsylvania) who have tested postive, continue to act as though they have NO IDEA how that stuff got into their blood, urine, etc. What a load of ****. Not even Museeuw was sloppy enough to have even tested positive.

I guess I feel some respect for Museeuw, because it does take a lot of guts for someone who has won so many races, who still has a criminal drugs case pending, who has been World Champion, World Cup Leader, Belgian Champion, and so on, to come forward and admit to cheating in one of the years for which he has not yet been charged. While the admission was weak, it gives a nod of admission to the existing doping charges without incriminating himself in the 2003 case, for which he actually faces the threat of jail time for drug trafficking. (If I had a criminal case pending, you can bet your life I wouldn't be admitting to similar offenses in the press - especially not in Flanders). He quit his position at QS, as well.

The denial and mystery are over with Johan. In a country that lists Cycling Results in the daily newspaper above every other sport but Football, and where he has still some support from the cycling public, this admission is huge. Where is the admission from anyone who has been so high in the sport? An admission from the long retired domestique Frankie Andreu (who has not been charged anywhere) has hardly the same impact, but I respect Andreu for saying it as well.

I know that respect is an oddly placed term, but my personal take is that it is only when people who are at the top end of the sport admit their complicity in the culture of doping, that we will have any chance to stop it. Drug controls have been relatively ineffective at stopping ongoing doping practices, but changing attitudes by the people in the sport might actually do it. Maybe if a rider feels unsafe taking a blood transfusion in his hotel, because the rest of the team will tell the world, we might see a cleaner sport.

I won't apologize to the forum for the fact that I have long been entertained in the Spring Classics by Johan Museeuw and his powerhouse teams. His implication in the Landuyt affair, gave me the same sad feeling that many cycling fans have had since the news surfaced about the test result after Stage 17 of this past Tour de France. I may be gullible, but I hope that Museeuw owning up to even some of his "dishonesty" might help. Trust me, I certainly watch the 2002 Paris Roubaix DVD with a different eye. Museeuw at 36 years of age, on a solo break-away where strong riders 10 yeas his junior couldn't catch him. As I watch it now, I imagine that you can see the hormones and blood thickeners leaking out of the corners of his eyes.


I wish this beautiful sport could change, because it brings me such great joy.
 

Serafino

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I agree with you here:

I wish this beautiful sport could change, because it brings me such great joy.
 

Bro Deal

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Serafino said:
As for the "confession" ask yourself why nobody else in the room (doctors, nurses, etc.) has come forward.
His wife confirmed it. So did Amrstrong's Oakley representative; Lemond has it on tape. Then there is the little matter of six positives for EPO...

Frankie and Museuuw eventaully owned up to what they did. When is Armstrong going to man up?
 

fscyclist

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strummer_fan said:
The respect comes from the fact that he could have done just as all of the people who have been caught have done. Deny Deny Deny. Hamilton and others, including the precious Mennonite lad from my home state (Pennsylvania) who have tested postive, continue to act as though they have NO IDEA how that stuff got into their blood, urine, etc. What a load of ****. Not even Museeuw was sloppy enough to have even tested positive.
No argument from me on most of it, but I still can't have much respect for people who confess only under duress, like Virenque, Millar, and now JM. Sure, it's better than acting like others who not only deny drug use, but deny any knowledge of its existence in the sport. Do they read the paper? The only racer that has confessed that truly went all the way and did the right thing was the mountain biker who came forth on his own and even gave back his medal. Can't remember his name off the top of my head (I don't follow mt biking), but that was the real stand up thing to do.
 

fscyclist

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Serafino said:
Frankie is a liar. He came out AFTER he was fired by Toyota-United. I wonder what reason they might have had for the termination. Why didn't he admit that he was a doper when he was on the witness stand. A trial which led to the insurance company having to pay $7.5 million USD instead of $5 million USD to Armstong.

As for the "confession" ask yourself why nobody else in the room (doctors, nurses, etc.) has come forward. Was anything in LA's medical records during treatment which recorded any such "confession".

Frankie was a doper who, in the end, came out and admitted that he never saw LA dope, or had any evidence of LA doping, or heard of LA doping or was approached, aided or advised by anyone at USPS to dope himself. Nonetheless, dope he did when he couldn't keep up.

Face it, Frankie is no angel. In fact, had he not been fired by Toyota-United (and I presume in danger of being outed) he'd still be playing the innocent choir boy.
So which is it, is Frankie a liar or a doper?

You missed my point entirely. First, this wasn't about Armstrong, it was about what compels people to confess. JM is facing a trial, as was Millar. Frankie was not; he came forth on his own.

You stated Frankie had no evidence Armstrong doped. From Frankie's perspective, he had all the evidence he needed short of witnessing the action, he had a voluntary confession. You can argue all day about whether the confession actually happened, but that is not defending your initial statement.
 

Bro Deal

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fscyclist said:
The only racer that has confessed that truly went all the way and did the right thing was the mountain biker who came forth on his own and even gave back his medal. Can't remember his name off the top of my head (I don't follow mt biking), but that was the real stand up thing to do.
Jerome Chiotti. That guy is a fucking hero. Again the French lead the way.
 

helmutRoole2

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Serafino said:
Frankie is a liar. He came out AFTER he was fired by Toyota-United.
He came out against Armstrong in a court of law, then was fired by Toyota United, then "came out" to the NY Times.
 

Leafer

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Serafino said:
Frankie is a liar. He came out AFTER he was fired by Toyota-United. I wonder what reason they might have had for the termination. Why didn't he admit that he was a doper when he was on the witness stand. A trial which led to the insurance company having to pay $7.5 million USD instead of $5 million USD to Armstong.

As for the "confession" ask yourself why nobody else in the room (doctors, nurses, etc.) has come forward. Was anything in LA's medical records during treatment which recorded any such "confession".

Frankie was a doper who, in the end, came out and admitted that he never saw LA dope, or had any evidence of LA doping, or heard of LA doping or was approached, aided or advised by anyone at USPS to dope himself. Nonetheless, dope he did when he couldn't keep up.

Face it, Frankie is no angel. In fact, had he not been fired by Toyota-United (and I presume in danger of being outed) he'd still be playing the innocent choir boy.
At least Andreu eventually came clean, while LA continues to lie.
 

Flyer's.Finale!

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Actually Farnkie Andreu did NOT come 100% clean in his watered down---then reissued a Lance Pharmstrong modified retraction a few days after his SCA leaked testimony and new York Times EPO doping confession limited to Lance's TDF wins.

Frankie's wife was a driving force in his breaking of the Omerta (drug cheat code of silence) and he was quickly and predictably terminated from his industry jobs. (OLN to renew him in 2007? Doubtful)

Frankie never confessed to:
steroids, anabolic or cortisone based
insulin
hGH
IGF-1
asthma inhalation of Salbutamol
amphetamines
masking agents, blood thinners
Pot Belge

Neither has Greg Lemond----yet anyway.

No doper can EVER be trusted for the complete truth (the full body of their dirty work). It is like pedephila to them.

Frankie's TDF EPO confession still raises a valid question: If Lance Armstrong's teammate was abusing EPO in 1999, 2000, 2001 and USPO won the GC---should not Lance's victories be stripped? His team cheated! Lance had an Epostal Team EPO advantage! Per UCI, a doping confession = GUILT

Who cares about Pharmstrong's seven EPO test positives in 1999. We have Andreu's EPO confession in hand!!! The hGH, insulin and steroids must wait.
 

helmutRoole2

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Leafer said:
At least Andreu eventually came clean, while LA continues to lie.
They're both lying. Andreu: "I only did it once and felt dirty."

Nope. You do it once and you're flying and not soon after that you re-organize your finances to keep the supply lines open.

Look, Andreu had an obvious ax to grind, but he's not interested in a clean sport. This guy has been with USAC and US Pro since he was a kid. He's seen drug use way before he started racing in Europe, way before he raced for USP or Motorola. And for him to act astonished that there's drug use in his sport... it's asking a bit too much. And to think he raced at his level without any assistance? Please. There's a handful of guys on the planet who can do it. A handful, if even that, and Andreu ain't one of them.
 

Flyer's.Finale!

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Frankie Andreu NEVER confessed willingly or fully.


#1) he was compelled to give a deposition in the SCA insurance fraud case againt USPO and Lance Armstrong.

#2) Frankie's wife intended to be truthful---Frankie preferred to honor the Omerta. They disagreed and argued. His wife's wishes prevailed.

#3) Lance Armstrong was directed to call Andreu by his attorneys just BEFORE the deposition and ask Frankie to feigh amnesia. Armstrong was unsuccessful and Andreu ratted out the 7-Time EPO Champion as an admitted steroid user under oath. (a pre-Cancer doper)

#4) later Andreu offerred up a limited confession. EPO in the TDF---a gfew times.

#5) Then he modified it to EXCLUDE Lance pursuant to harassemnt and blackball.

#6) He was terminated anyway and will be blackballed as that is the fate of any drug cheat who blwos a whistle on the planet earth.

Sporting Fraud is a religion and fans demand a good lie to believe in. Lance calls those lies 'miracles. Nike cashes those lies in on $300 running shoes.
 

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