My 5min power

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by bjrchch, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. bjrchch

    bjrchch New Member

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    Hi everyone. I am wondering what is a high power output for 5 mins. I'm male 76kg I have recently included 5x5min intervals in my training. (During a heavyish training block)My first was 420 then 413,419,430 and the last was 480. This was done on a flat road. I have also recently done a 90 min tempo effort averaging 167bpm at 375 watts. By this effort I'm assuming my 5min power could get higher. Would this be true. Note i haven't done these efforts on hills just a flat country road. From this data would I be more suited to the track (pursuit). I have never ridden track but have been told by a few fellow riders that this is what I should get into. Many thanks
     
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  2. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    From this data you could do just about any type of racing that suited your interests.

    6.3 w/g for 5 minutes and at the end of a complete interval set and 4.9 w/kg for 90 minutes of Tempo are the kind of power numbers you'd expect for elite racers and domestic pro riders. If those numbers are accurate from a calibrated power meter then you have the engine to compete in any sort of racing that suits your interests whether road, track, MTB, etc.

    Gotta say it sure seems like you're either trolling or just bragging a bit as someone with those kind of power numbers should have a very good idea of how strong he is compared to other riders. Kind of hard to lay down nearly 5 watts per kilo for 90 minutes and not realize how fast you are relative to others. With those power numbers you should be accustomed to riding past folks like they're standing still or riding experienced racers right off your wheel.

    Good engine, get out there and put it to use.
     
  3. bjrchch

    bjrchch New Member

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    Ok. Cheers Also if my numbers were crap, would my post not be trolling or bragging? I'm new to this and power meters so I was looking for an experienced racer/riders opinion. I was hoping maybe a current or previous pro or semi pro could shed some light on this. Racing where I am is pretty limited. Cheers
     
  4. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    No worries, but it's a bit like someone saying they typically golf 10 strokes under par or bowl 300 games and want to know if those numbers are any good.

    Yeah, your numbers are good. I race with and have coached a number of Category 1 and 2 cyclists. Amateur classes, but top amateur classes and I have yet to see power files with the kind of numbers you're talking about. Those are very big power numbers and if you're new to the game you've got the engine it takes to do very well at the national level or beyond. Get your race skills on par with your fitness and you could take this a long way.

    Good luck,
    -Dave
     
  5. Camren2

    Camren2 New Member

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    Taking food which is rich nutritionally and natural at the same time that will help you in getting all the required substances and this is what you need right now otherwise stuff that you are already doing is cool for you.
     
  6. fluro2au

    fluro2au New Member

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    Huge numbers

    I'm with Dave on this one....

    Paul
     
  7. longandsteady

    longandsteady New Member

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    So your Max 5 Min effort is 510w+ (you did 5 efforts with your last one at 480w during a heavy training block) putting you on the edge of 'World Class - International Pro' and really you should be toying around with most 'Exceptional - Domestic Pros'.

    You'll drop 6kg to lean down to 70kg and as your new to the sport, your power still has a long way to increase. In about 1 year, you'll be pushing 550w for 5mins and 410w for 60mins all whilst being at 70kg, giving you a power-to-weight ratio of 7.86w/kg for 5mins & 5.85w/kg for 60mins which would leave Chris Froome searching for oxygen and scrambling to hold your wheel.

    Pigs can fly too you know.
     
  8. bjrchch

    bjrchch New Member

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    Hi Long and Steady.
    Where are you making all these predictions from?
    I said i was new to power training/threading. Not cycling!
    I have been racing for 3 years now.
    I am 76kg and there is definately no more weight to be lost, maybe 1kg.
    I sense i whole lot of jealousy and spite from someone who is clearly not any good.

    Also my power files are correct and have been recently analysed since posting this thread.

    Long and Steady. I would thouroughly enjoy sending u these power files by email to make u eat your own words.
    Flick me through your email and ill gladly send them through.
     
  9. longandsteady

    longandsteady New Member

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    bjchch

    Firstly, I won't deny that if these numbers are true, there is an enormous amount of jealousy and clearly I am a hack in comparative to those numbers - as most people would be. 3 years in the sport is considered new, 99% of Professional riders that have been racing for 10 years+! Funnily enough, those predictive numbers are slightly exaggerated but also obtainable if you commit 100% to it. The 60 Minute @ 410w is a 10% increase in power for a 33% reduction in time to exhaustion, the 5 Minute numbers are based on you thinking those numbers can get higher, which is the best indicator that they can increase, with a 14% increase in power between the first and last interval, i'm quite sure you can push 510w for 5 minutes for 1 MAX effort when 100% fresh and not in a heavy training block - give it a go at the end of your next recovery block.

    How tall are you? Whats your age? Your BF%? and your BMI? Go get a Lab Lactate/Power Profile and once those are all in check, start sending your data/garmin files through to Shaun Stephens or Jonathan Vaughters rather than myself, get yourself in some good training company and you might find yourself on a nice annual salary riding your bike. Sending me your power files to 'make me eat my own words' won't accomplish anything.
     
  10. bjrchch

    bjrchch New Member

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    All good . No probs.
    My Height is 186cm. 29 years old which may count against me a bit. Not sure on body fat%, BMI or lactate but im pretty sure my lactate threshold is kinda high.
    My weight is mostly legs and def not considered a climber, more suited to crosswinds and rolling terrain.
    Cheers
     
  11. WombatAustralis

    WombatAustralis New Member

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    Firstly, since you are new to power meters, did you / do you perform a manual zero offset (called calibration by Garmin) before each and every ride? It is imperitive you do this every time to ensure the accuracy of your data. How to do this depends on the meter.

    Secondly, according to WKO+ (Training Peaks), 480w over 5min by 76kg rider = 6.3w/kg. That puts your 5min power in the top of the "excellent" bracket which is apprently Cat1 - Domestic Pro level. "World Class" doesn't start until 7.08w/kg.

    90min at 375w? Not sure how to get that back to a 60min (Function Threshold) level but here are WKO+'s figures for that;

    Excellent (eg Cat1) =4.89 to 5.33w/kg
    Exceptional (eg Domestic Pro) up to 5.87w/kg
    World Class (eg International Pro) above 5.96w/kg

    Here is a screen grab;

    [​IMG]
     
  12. bjrchch

    bjrchch New Member

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    Hi there.
    Yep i sure did do the zero offset.
    That's interesting reading.

    Cheers
     
  13. longandsteady

    longandsteady New Member

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    I have seen a few readings which give CP90 as a value in the range of 84% - 93% of CP60.

    In this case; CP90 is 375w = CP60 is in the range of 403w - 446w (375 / 0.84 = 446w & 375 / .93 = 403w)

    Due to your high numbers, I'm making the assumption that you can hold a high % of FTP for CP90 and your looking at an FTP of 430w+

    This at 76kg is puts you in the range of 5.3w/kg - 5.86w/kg and at 430w it would see you at 5.67w/kg

    This would put you comfortably in the 'Exceptional' Domestic Pro Category
     
  14. ambal

    ambal Active Member

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    I know guys who have reached that level in about 3 years - choose parents wisely and lay off the booze and recreational drugs.
     
  15. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Reading this thread, I am reminded of a time about 10 y or so ago when a then-fairly-green cyclist posted similar questions and impressive numbers (for VO2max, IIRC) to some forum or another. They also received a lot of push-back, as well as some helpful advice. Who was it? Omer Kem, now DS for BISSEL Pro Cycling, but who raced professionally for them previously (and also Priority Health, etc.).

    EDIT: Here is the thread (from late 2004):

    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/198932/such-thing-as-burning-900-kcalories-hour

    Moral of the story? Talent is everywhere...
     
    changes2008 likes this.
  16. iZnoGouD

    iZnoGouD New Member

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    That is out of date.
    Chris was crearly above 6.4w/kg in this Tour de France
     
  17. cyclightning

    cyclightning New Member

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    Weigh in here..

    You definitely have the aerobic engine, you have high VO2 max power.

    Here's an anecdote.. I have similar weight and power numbers to you.

    I was tested at an official testing site at 74 ml-kg-min at age 27 (in 2004) and completed a ramped cycling test in 3 minute continuous blocks to a bit less than 425 w (starting at 150 w). Body weight 73.7 kg at time of test and I'm 6 feet tall. However, I'm not a good time trialer and haven't done well in road races (middle of the pack to top 1/3rd, got into my own breakaway once but with no team mates). I'm a much better climber and I tend to not tire in longer races, I'm not a good TT'er considering my power and I seem to push a lot of air when riding. My best TT (my only TT and competition ride in 3 years) was 58.45 for a 37.5 km TT with quite a few good hills (amounting to 190 meters of vertical) and two turnarounds, riding with TT bars a bit high up, and no disk wheel and keeping my water bottle on. However, I never really trained hard. You have to do a lot of base training and long rides to develop a good base along with hard interval training as well as make sure you cycle training with easy rides inbetween. Raw 5 minute power at a fairly low bodyweight (around VO2 max) isn't that good a predictor of mass start road race performance where you need good 2-5 hr endurance and have to work with your team to get into a breakaway and not waste too much power before the finish line. although as others said it means you have the engine. For TT's, you have to train in a very low position and dial in your position.

    Recently I did a single (fresh) 3:20 interval at average 465 w and peaking at 585 w for 5 seconds @ 74 kg and could have gone a minute more. This is better than in 2004 and I am 36, and in fact my VO2 max power continues to rise with heavy interval training.
     
  18. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    You are misuing that chart. The labels are made up. The only "purpose" the chart has is to determine the slopes between the 3 values for a bicyclist. (There may be some value in that.)

    But for the most part your comments are harmless.

    ---

    To easy way to show the purpose of the chart is to simply look at the ratios of each value with the one below. It is constant across the entire table.
     
  19. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Quote: Originally Posted by An old Guy .
    for the most part your comments are harmless.


    Unlike the vast majority of yours.
     
  20. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Quote: Originally Posted by acoggan .

    Unlike the vast majority of yours.


    I don't recall if that was your chart or not. But I do remember that the author made comments similar to mine.

    ---

    Last time you harrassed me, we were negotiating an experiment to show your claims are false. Something about 90 days of 300+TSS. You walked away.

    You can do that again.
     
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