My brand new frame is broken. Can this be repaired?

[Guaps]

Short version:
There is a small crack on the seat tube of my brand new bike. Is this crack a problem? Can it be repaired if it is a problem? The frame is carbon fiber.

Long version:
I picked up this bike on a 2006 clearance sale. I've never riden it. I noticed the crack as soon as I pulled it out of the box. It was the only one in my size and they don't have any more in any other sizes either. I really like this bike, and I got a screaming deal on it. The crack is on the seat tub right below the clamp. It looks like some fool tightened the clamp with no seat post in it. The bike is a carbon fiber Lapierre.

Questions - How much of a problem is this? Will the crack grow? If it is a problem, is it fixable? Who could fix it? How much stress does that point of the frame carry?

I've never owned a carbon bike, so I really don't know what to think about this.

You can see in the top view that on of the sides of the tube is pushed in slightly. On the pic with the view of the inside, you can see the small bulge in the carbon fiber at the bottom of the slit.

Thanks for your help!

 

[sogood]

Calfee Design seemed to be the expert in this field. Contact them for a definitive answer.

http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm

BTW, why doesn't the inside of the seat tube look carbon? It shines like an alloy tube, or was that due to the flash?

 

[capwater]

Take it back, it's toast. CF is very string, but one slight crack and it's history.

 

[Eden]

ummm don't get me wrong, but that really doesn't look like CF in your photo - looks like metal to me.... but that doesn't change it too much. I would doubt that it could be fixed. Take it back.

 

[dhk2]

Appears to me the crack is in an aluminum seat tube. Believe it may be OK for a long time, depending on how deep this tube is, how much engagement the seatpost has, rider weight, saddle position, etc.

Certainly not a good thing, but if the bike was super-cheap, I might give it a try. OTOH, if you're a 250 lb rider that needs the seatpost all the way up, send it back right away.....assuming you've got return rights.

 

[Guaps]

ummm don't get me wrong, but that really doesn't look like CF in your photo - looks like metal to me.... but that doesn't change it too much. I would doubt that it could be fixed. Take it back.

I thought the same thing when I looked inside the tube. It has some kind of coating in there. But if you look at the outside where the paint is flaking off, the carbon fiber is very obvious. It's kind of tough to see in these photos though. It's carbon...

 

[Guaps]

Appears to me the crack is in an aluminum seat tube. Believe it may be OK for a long time, depending on how deep this tube is, how much engagement the seatpost has, rider weight, saddle position, etc.

Certainly not a good thing, but if the bike was super-cheap, I might give it a try. OTOH, if you're a 250 lb rider that needs the seatpost all the way up, send it back right away.....assuming you've got return rights.

I'm 6'1" and 190 lbs. A seat post has never been in there, but if it's anything like my other bike, there is a fair amount of post inside the seat tube.

I can take it back and get my money back, but I can't get a replacement. Because it was a 2006 model clearance sale, there are no more. I obviously don't want to throw away money by keeping a broken bike, but if this can be fixed, it's an outstanding bike for what i paid.

 

[pistole]

even with full carbon bikes , there is always an aluminium sleeve in the seat tube to engage with the seatpost.
.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Return it.

The seat tube is either aluminum or an aluminum insert over-molded with carbon. The crack will propogate circumferentially with subsequent fatigue cycles.

 

[Guaps]

even with full carbon bikes , there is always an aluminium sleeve in the seat tube to engage with the seatpost.
.

You're absolutely correct Pistole, thanks. The sleve goes down about 3-4" into the seat tube. On the outside where the crack is it's definitely carbon fiber, but the inside has a thin aluminium sleve. I just picked a small peice of paint off and you can see the carbon clearly on the outside.

 

[kdelong]

I am another one who thinks that you should take it back and get your money back. The crack will only grow until the bike becomes un useable. I have never heard of cracks in CF being repairable.

 

[dabac]

Short version:
There is a small crack on the seat tube of my brand new bike. Is this crack a problem? Can it be repaired if it is a problem? The frame is carbon fiber.

That looks quite nasty. One option is of course to ride carefully with frequent inspections and see what the crack will do. Will require some nerve but you should be able to catch it before it propagates to the point of collapse.

Another option is to bond the seat post in there permanently. If you're happy with the bike and got it dirt-cheap then maybe you're not too concerned with its 2nd hand value?
Remove the clamp, stick the seat post in there, sand down to bare fiber to the level of the top tube, sand lightly and degrease 2-3 inches of the seat post closest to the frame. Buy a roll of carbon fiber tape and some laminating resin. Using the tape and resin, start with building up a collar around the seat post where it enters the frame until you get a smooth transition from seat tube to seat post. Now start at the frame and wrap the whole area in an overlapping spiral pattern, both clockwise and counter-clockwise until you've reached 1.5 - 2.0 mm thickness. Wrap in insulating tape to evacuate excess resin and leave to cure.

Or maybe someone like the already mentioned Calfee can help you, you might be able to get a quote simply by sending him/them your photos.

 

[dhk2]

You're absolutely correct Pistole, thanks. The sleve goes down about 3-4" into the seat tube. On the outside where the crack is it's definitely carbon fiber, but the inside has a thin aluminium sleve. I just picked a small peice of paint off and you can see the carbon clearly on the outside.

Agree the smart thing to do is to return it while you can. In fact, if I got a new frame delivered in this condition, I'd return it just on principal. Don't know who the seller is, but obviously they sold you a defective product.

OTOH, if I saw a frame like this at a real bargain price, I might be willing to buy it and either ride it as is, or try to repair it. dabac's repair is interesting, but believe I'd try to sleeve it from the outside and then go with an OS clamp.

Here's the question: If you had known about this defect up front, would you have bought the bike anyway for the same money? If not, I say send it back.

 

[Guaps]

OTOH, if I saw a frame like this at a real bargain price, I might be willing to buy it and either ride it as is, or try to repair it. dabac's repair is interesting, but believe I'd try to sleeve it from the outside and then go with an OS clamp.

Here's the question: If you had known about this defect up front, would you have bought the bike anyway for the same money? If not, I say send it back.

I don't understand, sorry. "sleeve it from the outside then go with an OS clamp" - what is an OS clamp? What does it mean to sleeve it from the outside?

As for your question - that's a good thought. Once I find out what Calfee charges to fix it, I'll be able to answer that question. If $100 or so really will fix the bike ("good as new" not "that'll hold ya for a while"), yes, I'd have bought the bike knowing it was broken. If the repair can't be "good as new" and last me as long as the rest of the bike, then no.

This is starting to frustrate me though, so I'm getting close to sending back on principle alone.

 

[pistole]

OS - oversized

.

I think the easiest would be to use the existing clamp , but epoxy the seatpost into the frame. You seem reluctant to return the frame , so you probably got some kind of special deal on this.
.

 

[Guaps]

I think the easiest would be to use the existing clamp , but epoxy the seatpost into the frame. You seem reluctant to return the frame , so you probably got some kind of special deal on this.

Yeah, I did get a special deal. I got it for about 40% of full retail price. I know I can't afford a bike this nice even if I had paid even a normal sale price of 60-75% of retail. So I'm reluctant to let it go. But a special deal isn't all that special if the bike's worthless.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[dhk2]

I was thinking oversized sleeve that would be bonded over the outside of the seat tube, under the clamp. That may require having a special sleeve machined and perhaps using an MTB or other OS clamp with a bored-out ID (inner diameter) to match the new sleeve.

Don't know anything about Calfee's repair service, but my guess is they won't want to work on this. Would be interesting to hear what they have to say at any rate.

 

[Lonnie Utah]

Ah, yet another reason not to buy a carbon bike...

 

[curby]

can you take this into a dealer for a warranty replacement? put the bike together put the post in somehow, tell them you rode it a few times and then noticed the crack... if i were going this route i wouldnt let them see it in its damaged condition, it is obvious that this seatclamp area was overtightened or smashed without a post in it...

also: how tall is the frame's seatmast? can this whole problem be sawed off? sounds barbaric but depending on how deep the aluminum sleeve is and how tall the frame is above the top tube might be a slick solution... you just need a seatpost clamp that fits the new size of the top of the seat tube... you would drill and slot it just like it is now... (but without the crack!)

 

[Mikebike125]

Even though you got it off clearance, wont the manufacturer still warranty the frame? I would expect the frame to have some sort of warranty on it.