My little boy



In article <[email protected]>,
Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>Also http://www.crosswinds.net/~vaxchoice/beliefs/whatif/whatif.html
>
>What will happen if we stopped vaccinating? Maybe polio will return in major
>epidemics or maybe it won't. Perhaps by the time vaccination was introduced
>it had already run its course. We will never know because the vaccination
>program altered the course of the disease. It is simplistic to look at the
>past and say that it will recur if we stop vaccinating. There are a lot of
>unknowns and the conditions of the pre-vaccine era are not the conditions of
>today.

Anth, desperation is never pretty. It's certainly not pretty coming
from you. Since polio still appears in epidemics around Asia and
Africa, it is preposterous to suggest that it wouldn't come back in
the US if we stopped vaccinating for it.

It is simple-minded to suggest otherwise.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>...and they want to give the poor people live oral vaccines?
>Money is ********.

The oral vaccine, which causes weakened live virus to be shed, is
particularly effective in poor countries, where vaccine coverage is
apt to be spotty.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- one in a million cases can lead to actual
polio. Which is sad, but is a tiny number compared to the number who
will get polio without vaccination.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)





>Anth
>
>"Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1554844&dopt=Abstract
>> Anth
>>
>> "Rich" <,@.> wrote in message
>> news:p[email protected]...
>>
>>
>
>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>Interesting .. a disease which 'burned itself out.'
>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20000412.html

As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
Conclusions. There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the
infection "burning itself out." It did a really crappy job of
burnout, by the way, considering there were four separate epidemics
over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
disease.

You are an idiot.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)






>"Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > plague is one.
>> > Anth
>> >
>>
>> Yersinia Pestis, commonly known as bubonic plague or "the black plague"
>has
>> NOT "burned itself out." The fact that the disease can no longer kill
>> millions in widespread epidemics is a tribute to the brilliant medical men
>> who isolated the bacterium and correctly identified the rat/flea/human
>> vector of the disease, and developed the rodent control programs that
>> brought it under control. The last urban epidemic of plague, if I recall
>> correctly, was in Los Angeles, California in 1925. There have been other
>> lesser outbreaks of the disease since then in India and other places where
>> rodents are poorly controlled. A reservoir of the infection exists in wild
>> rodents in many parts of the world, including the American West, where
>> several isolated human cases are reported nearly every year.
>>
>> Try again. Name a disease that has burned itself out.
>>
>> --Rich
>>
>>
>
>
 
>Subject: Re: The importance of continuing mass polio vaccination (Was Re: My
>little boy)
>From: [email protected] (David Wright)
>Date: 11/9/2003 4:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Interesting .. a disease which 'burned itself out.'
>>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20000412.html
>
>As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
>Conclusions

As David continues with the insults.

>There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the
>infection "burning itself out."

"abruptly disappeared."

>It did a really crappy job of
>burnout, by the way, considering there were four separate epidemics
>over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
>disease.

>You are an idiot.
>
Translation. David has long argued the vaccination issue, you are getting close
to disrupting his EGO.

Jan
 
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:52:04 GMT, [email protected] (David
Wright) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>>...and they want to give the poor people live oral vaccines?
>>Money is ********.
>
>The oral vaccine, which causes weakened live virus to be shed, is
>particularly effective in poor countries, where vaccine coverage is
>apt to be spotty.
>
>Yeah, yeah, I know -- one in a million cases can lead to actual
>polio.

Yes that is unfortunate but it is also important to note that in that
very rare instance the polio infection is much milder than the wild
polio form. So in those one in a million cases we could use the IV
Vitamin C that Anth recommends.

Anth selectively identifies negative aspects of vaccines while largely
ignoring the massive positive benefits. It is easy for Anth, living in
modern society to ridicule those who are attempting to rid polio
worldwide in the most effective way possible. Anth will never
appreciate the efforts of those who selflessly go to third world
nations in an effort to rid them of epidemics which can kill and maim.
Anth could care less. He, like Jan Drew, is more interested in
spreading propaganda that demonizes conventional medicine. Sad that.

Aloha,

Rich


Which is sad, but is a tiny number compared to the number who
>will get polio without vaccination.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
> were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
>
>
>
>
>
>>Anth
>>
>>"Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1554844&dopt=Abstract
>>> Anth
>>>
>>> "Rich" <,@.> wrote in message
>>> news:p[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.
 
http://juicer565.0-zone.com
Yes you are right 1947 7095 1948 1674 1949 5439 1950 5565 1951 1529 1952
2747 etc.
Anth

"D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
>
> > ..and the highest incidence was 1947 7095 after that 1948 1674 1950 5565
etc
> > it continues to drop afterwards.
>
> That's not what your numbers show.
>
> > "D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
> >>
> >> > There was a huge downward trend in infections.
> >>
> >> How so? Per your posted spreadsheet, the raw incidence
> >> of paralytic polio through the 1950s was:
> >>
> >> 1951 10,037
> >> 1952 21,269
> >> 1953 15,648
> >> 1954 18,308
> >> 1955 13,850
> >> 1956 7,911
> >> 1957 2,499
> >> 1958 3,697
> >> 1959 6,289
> >>
> >> I didn't normalize for population because it didn't change
> >> enough during one decade to change the picture. Your "huge
> >> downward trend" had twice as many cases in 1952 as in 1951,
> >> half again as many in 1953, almost 2x in 1954, 40% more in
> >> 1955. By 1956 the killed-virus vaccine was being introduced
> >> so the data are harder to interpret, but there certainly
> >> was no clear downward trend prior to introduction.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, twenty years later:
> >> 1971 17
> >> 1972 29
> >> 1973 7
> >> 1974 7
> >> 1975 8
> >> 1976 12
> >> 1977 17
> >> 1978 9
> >> 1979 26
> >>
> >> Again, the absolute numbers are down by a factor of
> >> 1000:1 or more, even while population has increased.
> >> Extrapolate 1950-1955 as you will, you're not going
> >> to get that much of a reduction.
> >>
> >> --
> >> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
> >> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
> >> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
>
> --
> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
 
On 10 Nov 2003 01:05:47 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

>
>
>As David continues with the insults.
>

>Translation. David has long argued the vaccination issue, you are getting close
>to disrupting his EGO.

Good thing that Jan does not insult others. Lord have mercy.

Aloha,

Rich

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.
 
"In the summer of 1485, a rapidly fatal infectious fever struck England...
Sudor Anglicus, later known as the English sweating sickness, was
characterized by sudden headaches, myalgia [muscle pain], fever, profuse
sweating, and dyspnea [labored respiration]. Four additional epidemics were
reported in the summers of 1508, 1517, 1528, and 1551, after which the
disease abruptly disappeared."

I see the debunkers are more concerned with name calling that anything else.
Anth

"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Interesting .. a disease which 'burned itself out.'
> >http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20000412.html
>
> As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
> Conclusions. There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the
> infection "burning itself out." It did a really crappy job of
> burnout, by the way, considering there were four separate epidemics
> over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
> disease.
>
> You are an idiot.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
> were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > plague is one.
> >> > Anth
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yersinia Pestis, commonly known as bubonic plague or "the black plague"
> >has
> >> NOT "burned itself out." The fact that the disease can no longer kill
> >> millions in widespread epidemics is a tribute to the brilliant medical
men
> >> who isolated the bacterium and correctly identified the rat/flea/human
> >> vector of the disease, and developed the rodent control programs that
> >> brought it under control. The last urban epidemic of plague, if I
recall
> >> correctly, was in Los Angeles, California in 1925. There have been
other
> >> lesser outbreaks of the disease since then in India and other places
where
> >> rodents are poorly controlled. A reservoir of the infection exists in
wild
> >> rodents in many parts of the world, including the American West, where
> >> several isolated human cases are reported nearly every year.
> >>
> >> Try again. Name a disease that has burned itself out.
> >>
> >> --Rich
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
 
No! I've posted more than enough and wasted more than enough time - now you
post something.
Anth

"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Well there's strong correlation with wiping one disease out and causing
> >others.
>
> Oh, really? Let's see a few examples.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
> were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
>
>
>
>
>
> >Anth
> >
> >"D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
> >>
> >> > ...and other diseases which leave science scratching their heads will
> >> > appear.
> >>
> >> Are you suggesting that they would /not/ appear if we
> >> didn't eliminate smallpox, polio, measles, etc?
> >>
> >> --
> >> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
> >> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
> >> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
> >
> >
>
>
 
Look at Daves words :-

(1)
As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
Conclusions.
There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the infection "burning
itself out."

(2)
It did a really crappy job of burnout, by the way, considering there were
four separate epidemics
over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
disease.

Doesn't (1) contradict (2)

Anth

"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Interesting .. a disease which 'burned itself out.'
> >http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20000412.html
>
> As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
> Conclusions. There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the
> infection "burning itself out." It did a really crappy job of
> burnout, by the way, considering there were four separate epidemics
> over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
> disease.
>
> You are an idiot.
>
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
> were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > plague is one.
> >> > Anth
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yersinia Pestis, commonly known as bubonic plague or "the black plague"
> >has
> >> NOT "burned itself out." The fact that the disease can no longer kill
> >> millions in widespread epidemics is a tribute to the brilliant medical
men
> >> who isolated the bacterium and correctly identified the rat/flea/human
> >> vector of the disease, and developed the rodent control programs that
> >> brought it under control. The last urban epidemic of plague, if I
recall
> >> correctly, was in Los Angeles, California in 1925. There have been
other
> >> lesser outbreaks of the disease since then in India and other places
where
> >> rodents are poorly controlled. A reservoir of the infection exists in
wild
> >> rodents in many parts of the world, including the American West, where
> >> several isolated human cases are reported nearly every year.
> >>
> >> Try again. Name a disease that has burned itself out.
> >>
> >> --Rich
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
 
In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:

> Well there's strong correlation with wiping one disease out and causing
> others.

There is? Please explain the causative connection.

> "D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
>>
>> > ...and other diseases which leave science scratching their heads will
>> > appear.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that they would /not/ appear if we
>> didn't eliminate smallpox, polio, measles, etc?
>>
>> --
>> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
>> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
>> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
 
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:15:01 -0000, "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:

>No! I've posted more than enough and wasted more than enough time - now you
>post something.

Translation: I have no example.


Aloha,

Rich
>Anth
>
>"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Well there's strong correlation with wiping one disease out and causing
>> >others.
>>
>> Oh, really? Let's see a few examples.
>>
>> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
>> were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Anth
>> >
>> >"D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > ...and other diseases which leave science scratching their heads will
>> >> > appear.
>> >>
>> >> Are you suggesting that they would /not/ appear if we
>> >> didn't eliminate smallpox, polio, measles, etc?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
>> >> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
>> >> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.
 
>Subject: Re: The importance of continuing mass polio vaccination (Was Re: My
>little boy)
>From: "Anth" [email protected]
>Date: 11/9/2003 5:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>"In the summer of 1485, a rapidly fatal infectious fever struck England...
>Sudor Anglicus, later known as the English sweating sickness, was
>characterized by sudden headaches, myalgia [muscle pain], fever, profuse
>sweating, and dyspnea [labored respiration]. Four additional epidemics were
>reported in the summers of 1508, 1517, 1528, and 1551, after which the
>disease abruptly disappeared."
>
>I see the debunkers are more concerned with name calling that anything else.
>Anth

Indeed.

I wonder if they have a vested interest??

Jan
 
In <[email protected]>, Jan wrote:

>>Subject: Re: The importance of continuing mass polio vaccination (Was Re: My
>>little boy)
>>From: "Anth" [email protected]
>>Date: 11/9/2003 4:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>>
>>So the 'debunkers' are networked!
>>Anth
>
> They dishonestly work behind the scenes.
>
> Happy has a screw loose, but Rich won't notice. They are some what alike.

Well!

If you think it's scandalous that Rich and Aribert send
each other e-mail now and then, you do /not/ want to know
what Tsu Dho Nimh and I did yesterday.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
 
In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:

> http://www.geocities.com/harpub/index.html
> "The experiments of Clark, Frazier, and Amoss show that after intravenous
> inoculation in monkeys, the virus [filtrate] of poliomyelitis disappears
> from the blood within 72 hours; and other observations have shown that it is
> only after enormous intravenous doses of the virus that the monkey develops
> the disease. Smaller doses intravenously fail to produce any disturbance."
> "If injected with 250 to 500 cc [1 to 2 cups!] of the virus by a similar
> route the animal succumbed to the disease."
> George Draper, Acute Poliomyelitis (1917)
> 1 to 2 cups injected into a 20 lb Rhesus monkey is equal to 7 to 14 cups
> injected into a 150 lb man.

I don't know if you'd heard, but the reason that poliomyelitis
is a good candidate for total extinction is that the only host
it infects is /****/ /sapiens/

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
 
In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:

> http://juicer565.0-zone.com
> Yes you are right 1947 7095 1948 1674 1949 5439 1950 5565 1951 1529 1952
> 2747 etc.

So why do you present two such totally different sets
of numbers? Where do they come from, so that we can
find out which is accurate?

> "D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
>>
>> > ..and the highest incidence was 1947 7095 after that 1948 1674 1950 5565
> etc
>> > it continues to drop afterwards.
>>
>> That's not what your numbers show.
>>
>> > "D. C. Sessions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> In <[email protected]>, Anth wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > There was a huge downward trend in infections.
>> >>
>> >> How so? Per your posted spreadsheet, the raw incidence
>> >> of paralytic polio through the 1950s was:
>> >>
>> >> 1951 10,037
>> >> 1952 21,269
>> >> 1953 15,648
>> >> 1954 18,308
>> >> 1955 13,850
>> >> 1956 7,911
>> >> 1957 2,499
>> >> 1958 3,697
>> >> 1959 6,289
>> >>
>> >> I didn't normalize for population because it didn't change
>> >> enough during one decade to change the picture. Your "huge
>> >> downward trend" had twice as many cases in 1952 as in 1951,
>> >> half again as many in 1953, almost 2x in 1954, 40% more in
>> >> 1955. By 1956 the killed-virus vaccine was being introduced
>> >> so the data are harder to interpret, but there certainly
>> >> was no clear downward trend prior to introduction.
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, twenty years later:
>> >> 1971 17
>> >> 1972 29
>> >> 1973 7
>> >> 1974 7
>> >> 1975 8
>> >> 1976 12
>> >> 1977 17
>> >> 1978 9
>> >> 1979 26
>> >>
>> >> Again, the absolute numbers are down by a factor of
>> >> 1000:1 or more, even while population has increased.
>> >> Extrapolate 1950-1955 as you will, you're not going
>> >> to get that much of a reduction.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
>> >> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
>> >> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
>>
>> --
>> | "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
>> | completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
>> +--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email protected]> ----------+
 
"Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Look at Daves words :-
>
> (1)
> As you continue to demonstrate yourself the Master of Unwarranted
> Conclusions.
> There is *nothing* on that web page that mentions the infection "burning
> itself out."
>
> (2)
> It did a really crappy job of burnout, by the way, considering there were
> four separate epidemics
> over a 43-year period. We don't even know if this was an infectious
> disease.
>
> Doesn't (1) contradict (2)
>
> Anth
>

Yes, it is contradictory. But your finding a flaw in Dave's semantics does
not prove that English Sweating Sickness was an infectious disease. If it
was, we know nothing about the pathogen, its reservoirs, or the vectors of
its transmission. The "germ theory" of disease was not yet discovered in the
sixteenth century; people were still using a "pocketful of posies" to
protect themselves from the bad odors that they thought spread the plague.

So have you found an infectious disease that "burned itself out"? I don't
know. Do any real medical records exist from the sixteenth century? Could
the disease have been caused by some environmental toxin, and not be
pathogenic at all? Could English Sweating Sickness have been just a
particularly lethal strain of influenza? (All the symptoms are included in
the flu profile.)

I'll give you an A for research effort, and concede that you might possibly
have dug up an example supporting your "burning out" theory. But that
support is mighty weak, and does not warrant the cessation of a vaccination
program in the hope that polio will behave like English Seating Sickness,
whatever that was.

--Rich <-- Still hoping that ignorance will someday burn out.
 
"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Anth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Well there's strong correlation with wiping one disease out and causing
> >others.
>
> Oh, really? Let's see a few examples.
>

Here's a weak, generalized example, David. Wiping out early death from
infectious childhood diseases has raised life expectancy, resulting in a
rise in the incidence of diseases of the elderly, i.e., that "cancer
epidemic" that Anth keeps bringing up.

;o) Rich
 
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