My maiden anti-idiot (4wd) rant



P

Peter Signorini

Guest
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:

> 4WDs are one of the few vehicles you can buy that have enough mass to
> tow a decent sized boat, or caravan, or a double horse float.



<snip>

> I dunno how many owners of big 4WDs use them as tugs, but probably
> more than you realise if you see the thing without the trailer.


None of which changes the fact that they are an environmentally damage
transport choice, whether we're talking general consumption of resources,
pollution of town and city air, or gloabal warming and climate change.

Running horses for pleaure and buzzing about in skiboats doesn't do much for
global warming either. At least the horses will be of use once the peak oil
scenarios hit, but I doubt there'll be much water-skiing nor towing of boats
or horse floats in 20 years or so.
--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ [email protected]
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 6 Apr 2006 00:07:26 +1000
Peter Signorini <[email protected]> wrote:
> None of which changes the fact that they are an environmentally damage
> transport choice, whether we're talking general consumption of resources,
> pollution of town and city air, or gloabal warming and climate change.


sure, all motorised vehicles are bad that way, as are airconditioners.

Change the whole culture, but you may not like it....


> Running horses for pleaure and buzzing about in skiboats doesn't do much for
> global warming either. At least the horses will be of use once the peak oil
> scenarios hit, but I doubt there'll be much water-skiing nor towing of boats
> or horse floats in 20 years or so.


Horses travelled on their own feet or by train. There were even horse
drawn horse floats.

The boat we used to tow was a sailboat oddly enough. Far more
friendly than even a bus.

The horses that are most floated in urban environments are racehorses.
One of the most popular forms of entertainment in the pre-TV pre-car
pre-gasguzzling days. IF the oil goes, then most of the current kinds
of entertainment will probably fail too, and you'll be definitely
wanting horseracing back.

Zebee
 

warrwych

New Member
Jun 7, 2004
1,009
0
0
Zebee Johnstone said:
>

<snip snip>
The horses that are most floated in urban environments are racehorses.
One of the most popular forms of entertainment in the pre-TV pre-car
pre-gasguzzling days. IF the oil goes, then most of the current kinds
of entertainment will probably fail too, and you'll be definitely
wanting horseracing back.

Zebee

I'd disagree with you on the contents of urban horse floats. Most gallopers travel in floats (ie as in trucks) in urban areas, as trainers either have too many horses for a float (trailer) or smaller trainers pool resources or pay for their charges to be transported to venues. I'd be tipping that pony clubbers, rec riders etc would provide a larger number of floats (as in trailers) on the road.
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:00:54 +1000
> just us <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Sounds like a city 4wder.
> > Makes you wonder why they drive them on the bitumen for years -

>
> 4WDs are one of the few vehicles you can buy that have enough mass to
> tow a decent sized boat, or caravan, or a double horse float.
>
> Mum's elderly F100 is the only vehicle we had, including the V8
> Valiant, which didn't get dictated to by a double horsefloat and 2
> impatient horses. THe modern equivalent is a Landcruiser or Range
> Rover - heavy enough to do a decent towing job, powerful enough to
> manage hills at highway speed with the heavy load, and comfortable
> enough to do long distances.
>
> I dunno how many owners of big 4WDs use them as tugs, but probably
> more than you realise if you see the thing without the trailer.
>
> Zebee


Higher registration fees on 4WD vehicles would be an incentive for the
occasional weekend tower to hire a vehicle for this purpose, instead of
driving it several hundred km per week in the city.

Tam
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 6 Apr 2006 00:07:26 +1000
> Peter Signorini <[email protected]> wrote:
> > None of which changes the fact that they are an environmentally damage
> > transport choice, whether we're talking general consumption of resources,
> > pollution of town and city air, or gloabal warming and climate change.

>
> sure, all motorised vehicles are bad that way, as are airconditioners.
>
> Change the whole culture, but you may not like it....


I hate my air conditioned office as it means I can't open the windows.
And when Mum's car started leaking air conditioner fluid many years ago,
she never bothered to get it fixed and refill it - she just kept the
windows down. And now that I've bought it, I do the same, even in high
summer in Brisbane.

People are so soft these days. Air con for the elderly, and that's it.

If we didn't have Air con, people working in the city wouldn't be
expected to wear ridiculous business suits all the time.

> > Running horses for pleaure and buzzing about in skiboats doesn't do much for
> > global warming either. At least the horses will be of use once the peak oil
> > scenarios hit, but I doubt there'll be much water-skiing nor towing of boats
> > or horse floats in 20 years or so.

>
> Horses travelled on their own feet or by train. There were even horse
> drawn horse floats.
>
> The boat we used to tow was a sailboat oddly enough. Far more
> friendly than even a bus.
>
> The horses that are most floated in urban environments are racehorses.
> One of the most popular forms of entertainment in the pre-TV pre-car
> pre-gasguzzling days. IF the oil goes, then most of the current kinds
> of entertainment will probably fail too, and you'll be definitely
> wanting horseracing back.


"IF" ???

Well, kinda makes me glad to know I can run 100km if I ever need to...

Tam
 

LotteBum

New Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,138
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It's harsh to blame those who tow regularly on our terrible environment.

It's common to hear the old "but I actually use my 4WD for x purpose" excuse, but I personally don't think it's valid.

Back in my day as a horse rider, my parents could not afford a horse float, and I'm sure they wouldn't have spent the thousands of dollars on a float plus the car capable of towing it. Rather, I rode my horse to local events and once a year (max), I'd save up and hire a float and the olds would take me to some sort of event.

The same goes for those who "actually use the 4WD for its intended purpose - going off road". Not only are they out there bashing their sh!tboxes around in the bush - they're also burning a lot of fuel in the process, plus they're driving the big sh!tter around during the week. If you really want to go off road in a car, what's wrong with hiring one for a couple of weeks every year? I imagine it would be a lot cheaper than owning one.

I don't care what anyone's excuse is - the only people who genuinely need 4WD's are those who need to go off road to get somewhere. That said, I'm not sure why a Jimny or Rav can't do the same job....

We could all do a lot better. In a perfect world, we'd all walk everywhere (barefoot, of course), have water tanks, grow our own produce etc. In reality, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

One of the easiest things to do is not to drive a huge tank everywhere we go. There are so many other things we can all do such as composting, walk/ride more, drive less (even if we only have small cars), use less electricity, get a water tank (even if there was no drought, it's a waste of energy to use drinking quality water for watering gardens), stop using chemicals in the garden and even contributing towards the Energex Green Scheme... it's all about how much we care and some people truly don't give a flying f*ck.

Lotte
 

LotteBum

New Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,138
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Another thing I want to mention is the fact that a huge percentage of our greenhouse gas emissions are industrial/mining related. Why aren't we attacking them?
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
LotteBum wrote:
>
> It's harsh to blame those who tow regularly on our terrible environment.
>
> It's common to hear the old "but I actually use my 4WD for x purpose"
> excuse, but I personally don't think it's valid.
>
> Back in my day as a horse rider, my parents could not afford a horse
> float, and I'm sure they wouldn't have spent the thousands of dollars
> on a float plus the car capable of towing it. Rather, I rode my horse
> to local events and once a year (max), I'd save up and hire a float and
> the olds would take me to some sort of event.
>
> The same goes for those who "actually use the 4WD for its intended
> purpose - going off road". Not only are they out there bashing their
> sh!tboxes around in the bush - they're also burning a lot of fuel in
> the process, plus they're driving the big sh!tter around during the
> week. If you really want to go off road in a car, what's wrong with
> hiring one for a couple of weeks every year? I imagine it would be a
> lot cheaper than owning one.
>
> I don't care what anyone's excuse is - the only people who genuinely
> need 4WD's are those who need to go off road to get somewhere. That
> said, I'm not sure why a Jimny or Rav can't do the same job....
>
> We could all do a lot better. In a perfect world, we'd all walk
> everywhere (barefoot, of course), have water tanks, grow our own
> produce etc. In reality, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
>
> One of the easiest things to do is not to drive a huge tank everywhere
> we go. There are so many other things we can all do such as
> composting, walk/ride more, drive less (even if we only have small
> cars), use less electricity, get a water tank (even if there was no
> drought, it's a waste of energy to use drinking quality water for
> watering gardens), stop using chemicals in the garden and even
> contributing towards the Energex Green Scheme... it's all about how
> much we care and some people truly don't give a flying f*ck.
>
> Lotte


More on the offroad thing - how much challenge is it to fill up and
drive your car along a 4WD track, for fun? I challenge you to cycle or
run along the track instead!

Tam *up for the challenge*
 

warrwych

New Member
Jun 7, 2004
1,009
0
0
LotteBum said:
It's harsh to blame those who tow regularly on our terrible environment.

It's common to hear the old "but I actually use my 4WD for x purpose" excuse, but I personally don't think it's valid.

Back in my day as a horse rider, my parents could not afford a horse float, and I'm sure they wouldn't have spent the thousands of dollars on a float plus the car capable of towing it. Rather, I rode my horse to local events and once a year (max), I'd save up and hire a float and the olds would take me to some sort of event.

The same goes for those who "actually use the 4WD for its intended purpose - going off road". Not only are they out there bashing their sh!tboxes around in the bush - they're also burning a lot of fuel in the process, plus they're driving the big sh!tter around during the week. If you really want to go off road in a car, what's wrong with hiring one for a couple of weeks every year? I imagine it would be a lot cheaper than owning one.

I don't care what anyone's excuse is - the only people who genuinely need 4WD's are those who need to go off road to get somewhere. That said, I'm not sure why a Jimny or Rav can't do the same job....

We could all do a lot better. In a perfect world, we'd all walk everywhere (barefoot, of course), have water tanks, grow our own produce etc. In reality, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

One of the easiest things to do is not to drive a huge tank everywhere we go. There are so many other things we can all do such as composting, walk/ride more, drive less (even if we only have small cars), use less electricity, get a water tank (even if there was no drought, it's a waste of energy to use drinking quality water for watering gardens), stop using chemicals in the garden and even contributing towards the Energex Green Scheme... it's all about how much we care and some people truly don't give a flying f*ck.

Lotte


Yep, you're right Lotte - it's about compromise. What things can I do personally in my life that will add to the environmental account?

It's great we can sit in our cosy offices, pointing the finger at cars, trucks, buses, drivers, imbeciles, delinquents, governmental bodies, each other regarding the environment and our personal safety, but we also have to take action in some way. Big or small, it doesn't matter, but making choices and doing things to keep the balance positive rather than negative is the important thing.
 
R

Rhubarb

Guest
"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Rhubarb Wrote:
> >
> > That's too funny! How did you find it?

>
> Go here and create your own masterpiece!
>
> http://www.chevyapprentice.com/
>
> Be quick, as Chevy maybe taking these down fast. :D
>
>
> --
> cfsmtb


I made one and was very proud of my work. But alas something buggered up and
it didn't send me the link and it is now lost :(

I don't think I have the heart (or the time) to a make another ;)
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
warrwych wrote:
<snip>
> Yep, you're right Lotte - it's about compromise. What things can I do
> personally in my life that will add to the environmental account?
>
> It's great we can sit in our cosy offices, pointing the finger at cars,
> trucks, buses, drivers, imbeciles, delinquents, governmental bodies,
> each other regarding the environment and our personal safety, but we
> also have to take action in some way. Big or small, it doesn't matter,
> but making choices and doing things to keep the balance positive rather
> than negative is the important thing.


I shook things up at home when I was about 10 or so, by turning off the
tap while brushing my teeth. Shock! Horror! Shortly after, my older
brother and mother took up the habit, but 15 years on, Dad still
refuses. Dad also likes the idea of getting a bigger, better car every
few years. Mum's future surely leads to a small hybrid car that she'll
keep forever. And she turns off the shower while shaving her legs. Go
Mum!

It's too easy to say, "One person can't make a difference, so why should
I bother?" It's so easy to make a difference. Mum chucked a bucket under
the downpipe off our gutters. She puts it aside under cover and when the
sun comes back out, she'll this to water the garden. She's working on
convincing Dad that a water tank is a good idea. She's using the "money
saving" argument as my Dad doesn't seem to give much of a sh!t about the
environment. I reckon I have a cool mother. Go Mum!

Tam
 

LotteBum

New Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,138
2
0
42
Tamyka Bell said:
my Dad doesn't seem to give much of a sh!t about the
environment. I reckon I have a cool mother. Go Mum!
I agree with you. My mum is going to be buying a new car in the next 12 months. She works about 20km from home and I keep telling her to buy either a 100cc scooter (she has to drive through an 80km/h zone with no over taking lanes - wouldn't want to hold any V8's up now, would you?) or a small car like a Yaris or something equally small. Her belief is that cars that small look silly with their tiny little wheels etc, so she'll probably end up buying a Corolla or a Mazda 3 which, even though they're not huge, I still think is overkill. To this day, I wish we'd bought a Mazda 2 over our Corolla - not that I don't love our Stoller - just that even better fuel economy would rock.

Old people have spent their lives being incredibly selfish and although I applaud those who are now doing their bit, the ones that don't seem to care really p!ss me off. It's not that hard to change your ways.

Lotte
 
D

dtmeister

Guest
LotteBum <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Another thing I want to mention is the fact that a huge percentage of
> our greenhouse gas emissions are industrial/mining related. Why aren't
> we attacking them?


Until we are ready to give up bicycles, toothpaste, medicine, building
material, pots and pans, chairs, computers, infrastructure to make and
transport our food, water pipes, hospitals and just about everything
around us that relies on industry and mining, then perhaps we shouldn't
attack them.

I'm all for people living in mud huts attacking them/us about the
issue though..


--
..dt
 
G

Graeme Dods

Guest
On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 00:07:26 +1000, Peter Signorini wrote:

> At least the horses will be of use once the peak oil
> scenarios hit,


Yep, you can boil them down to make biodiesel. Or did you mean something
else?

;)

Graeme
 
D

David Trudgett

Guest
LotteBum <[email protected]> writes:

> Another thing I want to mention is the fact that a huge percentage of
> our greenhouse gas emissions are industrial/mining related. Why aren't
> we attacking them?


Wash your mouth out with soap, Lotte! We also don't mention, for
example, the gigalitres of drinking water per day wasted by big
business, etc., etc., but instead we concentrate on making ma and pa
throw buckets of water over the car instead of using a trigger hose
attachment to save even more water.

:)

David


--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

What I don't know is not as much of a problem
as what I am sure I know that just ain't so.

-- Mark Twain
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
David Trudgett wrote:
>
> LotteBum <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Another thing I want to mention is the fact that a huge percentage of
> > our greenhouse gas emissions are industrial/mining related. Why aren't
> > we attacking them?

>
> Wash your mouth out with soap, Lotte! We also don't mention, for
> example, the gigalitres of drinking water per day wasted by big
> business, etc., etc., but instead we concentrate on making ma and pa
> throw buckets of water over the car instead of using a trigger hose
> attachment to save even more water.
>
> :)
>
> David


Washing a car? What for? I save my water for washing the bike :-D

Tam
 
G

Graeme Dods

Guest
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:17:23 +1000, Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Air con for the elderly, and that's it.


And those of us softies from colder European climates too please! I would
have given up after a few weeks here in Perth were it not for air-con (no
deafening chorus of "turn it off, send him home!" please)

Graeme
 
T

Tamyka Bell

Guest
Graeme Dods wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:17:23 +1000, Tamyka Bell wrote:
>
> > Air con for the elderly, and that's it.

>
> And those of us softies from colder European climates too please! I would
> have given up after a few weeks here in Perth were it not for air-con (no
> deafening chorus of "turn it off, send him home!" please)


But surely you're weaning off it, using it less and less as you
acclimatise more and more... wait a sec, Perth? I missed out - I nearly
froze my tits off in Perth, and that was last January!

Tam
 
G

Graeme Dods

Guest
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:09:28 +1000, David Trudgett wrote:

> We also don't mention, for
> example, the gigalitres of drinking water per day wasted by big
> business, etc., etc.


I got some strange looks when I walked past an office at the end of St
George's Terrace yesterday and stooped down to adjust a sprinkler that was
pissing half of its water down down the pavement and into the gutter. If
you're going to have bloody silly high maintenance lawns then at least make
sure the sprinklers point the right way (or turn them off and let the grass
grow the way it would, or wouldn't, naturally). Lawns are a waste of time
and effort even in higher rainfall areas such as the UK, in many parts of
Australia they're a criminal waste of resources.

Graeme