My own twisted vision ...



In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tie shoe laces or a judge and/or jury
>for that matter. :)


Yes, but I would hope a judge and/or jury would hear more evidence than what is
presented by the biased press.
----------------
Alex
 
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 19:53:40 +0200, Sandy <[email protected]> wrote:

>Worth noting, however, how many of the NAMES are not the big earners. 30
>000€ for start, less taxes and social charges, is not really royal.
>That's microeconomic - get macro, and you have a big pig to wrestle with.


It is also when you starting asking who wrote the checks. Jan could do
it from petty cash - those making petty cash can't.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
In article <[email protected]>, Sandy
<[email protected]> wrote:

<big snip>

> Finally, it is this collection of rights : rights to a presumption of
> innocence ; right to fair and free access to justice ; right to
> contradict the organs of state - these rights are being dismembered. By
> the press, the state, the ASO and UCI.
> BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY - by the members of the public *especially in this
> forum* who think they have the moral qualifications to intuit truth,
> form judgments, castigate others, all without having enough knowledge to
> tie their own shoelaces.


Thought provoking stance. Perhaps my perspective is a simplistic
reduction, but I don't consider this farce to be unduly inimical to the
sanctity of cherished tenets. Consider the scenario of an executive
removed from an account because his involvement, perceived or in
reality, is detrimental to the client's interests. Or a politician,
perhaps completely innocent, who, out of deference to the dignity of
the institution -- no joke intended!, temporarily stands down from a
cabinet position while the storm clouds of scandal blow over.

There are many stations in life that require, like Caesar's wife, that
one remain not merely innocent, but above substantive suspicion. It
seems that a participant of the TdF must now satisfy that criterion.
And why should that be so audacious? The primary function of the TdF
and facsimiles is to sell banking services, hearing aids, and develop
brand awareness -- that a bicycle race transpires and is usually
entertaining is incidental. Stripped of the spandex and exotic
machinery, members of the pro-peleton are just high priced salesmen and
PR men. If you pay millions to a pro-athlete to push Coke and a photo
winds up on the internet of him quaffing a Pepsi he can kiss the
endorsement deal good-bye. Nothing to do with justice; everything to do
with $.

So why obfuscate the issue with notions of innocence, guilt, loyalty
and justice -- quaint notions that have little bearing in world of
commerce, multi-million dollar contracts, and pro-athletes? Christ, a
stage winner of the TdF gets a stuffed lion from a bank not a wreath of
olives from the gods! Corporations have no conscience; pity the
gullible who believe such a blatantly commercial enterprise as the TdF
is illuminated by enlightened principles.

>
> This is turning into an event of mobocracy, with all kinds of actors of
> all spheres.


Bread and circuses. And doped cyclists in tights. That's entertainment!

> My opinion - the dopers (whoever they are) have done less damage to
> cycling that have all the above. Yeah - I suppose lots of you plan to
> burn the witches.


Burning books provides greater illumination ;).

Luke
 
Luke a écrit :
> In article <[email protected]>, Sandy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <big snip>
>
>
>> Finally, it is this collection of rights : rights to a presumption of
>> innocence ; right to fair and free access to justice ; right to
>> contradict the organs of state - these rights are being dismembered. By
>> the press, the state, the ASO and UCI.
>> BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY - by the members of the public *especially in this
>> forum* who think they have the moral qualifications to intuit truth,
>> form judgments, castigate others, all without having enough knowledge to
>> tie their own shoelaces.
>>

>
> Thought provoking stance. Perhaps my perspective is a simplistic
> reduction, but I don't consider this farce to be unduly inimical to the
> sanctity of cherished tenets. Consider the scenario of an executive
> removed from an account because his involvement, perceived or in
> reality, is detrimental to the client's interests. Or a politician,
> perhaps completely innocent, who, out of deference to the dignity of
> the institution -- no joke intended!, temporarily stands down from a
> cabinet position while the storm clouds of scandal blow over.
>
> There are many stations in life that require, like Caesar's wife, that
> one remain not merely innocent, but above substantive suspicion. It
> seems that a participant of the TdF must now satisfy that criterion.
> And why should that be so audacious? The primary function of the TdF
> and facsimiles is to sell banking services, hearing aids, and develop
> brand awareness -- that a bicycle race transpires and is usually
> entertaining is incidental. Stripped of the spandex and exotic
> machinery, members of the pro-peleton are just high priced salesmen and
> PR men. If you pay millions to a pro-athlete to push Coke and a photo
> winds up on the internet of him quaffing a Pepsi he can kiss the
> endorsement deal good-bye. Nothing to do with justice; everything to do
> with $.
>
> So why obfuscate the issue with notions of innocence, guilt, loyalty
> and justice -- quaint notions that have little bearing in world of
> commerce, multi-million dollar contracts, and pro-athletes? Christ, a
> stage winner of the TdF gets a stuffed lion from a bank not a wreath of
> olives from the gods! Corporations have no conscience; pity the
> gullible who believe such a blatantly commercial enterprise as the TdF
> is illuminated by enlightened principles.
>
>
>> This is turning into an event of mobocracy, with all kinds of actors of
>> all spheres.
>>

>
> Bread and circuses. And doped cyclists in tights. That's entertainment!
>
>
>> My opinion - the dopers (whoever they are) have done less damage to
>> cycling that have all the above. Yeah - I suppose lots of you plan to
>> burn the witches.
>>

>
> Burning books provides greater illumination ;).
>
> Luke
>

Two things you have never done, I speculate :

- won a cycling race in any recognized federation.
- dealt with the prospect of severe jeopardy to freedom or reputation.

But your advanced diploma in elementary cynicism and anti-corporate
harangue is well earned.

--

Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
 
jt <[email protected]> writes:
> Even the appearance of wrongdoing or unethical behavior is bad
> publicity for them and to be seen as complacent makes them appear to
> be sponsoring the behavior.


I've allways wondered how the Festina bosses see the '98
affair. People will be talking about the Festina affair long after the
firm itself is gone.

MJ;

--
..signature necesse est
 
In article <[email protected]>, Sandy
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Two things you have never done, I speculate :
>
> - won a cycling race in any recognized federation.


Right.

> - dealt with the prospect of severe jeopardy to freedom or reputation.


Wrong.

> But your advanced diploma in elementary cynicism and anti-corporate
> harangue is well earned.


Evidently not. I was enrolled in advanced cynicism.

Luke
 
Mikko J Virtanen wrote:
> I've allways wondered how the Festina bosses see the '98
> affair. People will be talking about the Festina affair long after the
> firm itself is gone.


No publicity is bad publicity.
 
Donald Munro a écrit :
> Mikko J Virtanen wrote:
>
>> I've allways wondered how the Festina bosses see the '98
>> affair. People will be talking about the Festina affair long after the
>> firm itself is gone.
>>

>
> No publicity is bad publicity.
>
>
>

Festina remains a general sponsor of the TdF, and supplies the timing
equipment.
 
Donald Munro <[email protected]> writes:

> No publicity is bad publicity.


So this time it will be called Operation Puerto, right? There seems to
be no commercial potential a la Tyson chocolate ears in it. Badly
planned, if you ask me.

MJ;

--
..signature necesse est
 
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:14:12 +0200, Donald Munro
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mikko J Virtanen wrote:
>> I've allways wondered how the Festina bosses see the '98
>> affair. People will be talking about the Festina affair long after the
>> firm itself is gone.

>
>No publicity is bad publicity.
>

Limbaugh caught with Viagra? That could be a bad association going
both ways.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
Robert Chung wrote:
> > The Guardia civil is
> > doing what it can to get the matter settled without actual proceedings,
> > and I find it hard to imagine that the culminated investigation was not
> > disclosed - there was no effort in /El Pais/ obtaining the information.

>
> A well-placed leak can be quite effective at bolstering a weak case. That
> isn't to say that this case will turn out to be weak--but my sense is that
> at the moment the case is certainly incomplete. First we heard of 200 bags
> of blood, then 58 names, then 31 of those names got released. This doesn't
> mean that 27 other names won't get released in the next few days--it
> simply means that the case is incomplete. So the question isn't "why is
> the Guardia Civil leaking the case?" but rather "why are they leaking it
> now?"


You're familiar with the breakfast scene in "The Manchurian Candidate"
where Angela Lansbury and her patsy Senator husband finally decide
how many communists are on the Senator's list, right?

As for why the Spanish authorities are releasing it now (it's no longer
a leak) - doesn't anyone here follow sports?
<http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/matchreport/0,,1807586,00.html>
June 28, 2006: France 3 - 1 Spain
Ribéry 41, Vieira 83, Zidane 90; Villa 28pen
It's only right that one national humiliation should be repaid
by another.

But really, I think the answer is the Tommy Weasel and LANCE
Conspiracy. LANCE, angered by L'Equipe's report and JM Leblanc's
immediately pushing LANCE in front of the bus, has determined
to undermine the Tour's credibility for good. If this year's winner
has an asterisk, LANCE remains the last "real" winner.

Ben
 
[email protected] wrote:

> As for why the Spanish authorities are releasing it now (it's no longer
> a leak) - doesn't anyone here follow sports?
> <http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/matchreport/0,,1807586,00.html>
> June 28, 2006: France 3 - 1 Spain
> Ribéry 41, Vieira 83, Zidane 90; Villa 28pen
> It's only right that one national humiliation should be repaid
> by another.
>
> But really, I think the answer is the Tommy Weasel and LANCE
> Conspiracy. LANCE, angered by L'Equipe's report and JM Leblanc's
> immediately pushing LANCE in front of the bus, has determined
> to undermine the Tour's credibility for good. If this year's winner
> has an asterisk, LANCE remains the last "real" winner.


Heard mention during the Italy match commentray of the Juventus coach
"falling" out of his office window. Accident(al death of an Anarchist)?
And that Argentinian Manchestre Untied player who went apeshit when they
lost to Germany sure looked high on something..... which links in again
with Manu/Juventus, drugs and .....silence.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Sandy <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
Thanks. I agree entirely.

> This is turning into an event of mobocracy, with all kinds of actors of
> all spheres.
> My opinion - the dopers (whoever they are) have done less damage to
> cycling that have all the above. Yeah - I suppose lots of you plan to
> burn the witches.


Many people here have been saying all along exactly what
you say: that the riders take _all_ the blame.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:

> And OLN
> can go back to fly fishing and maybe add bear baiting to their list.
> Now there's a sport, unless they put either the bearl or the dogs on
> steroids...


Think about it. There is only one sport that is at all
fair to the animal: bull riding. The bull always wins.
There was a bull named Bodacious. He was so much tougher
than the other bulls that he had to be removed from the
circuit in fairness to the riders. One of the best riders
ever was on B. B. jumped his hind quarters forcing the
rider forward, then jerked back his head breaking most of
the bones in the rider's face.

--
Michael Press
 
"Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tie shoe laces or a judge and/or
>>jury
>>for that matter. :)

>
> Yes, but I would hope a judge and/or jury would hear more evidence than
> what is
> presented by the biased press.


Unless the articles that I read were wrong the teams acted on information
supplied to ASO by Spanish authorities not the press.