my usual problem...

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Luca Magnoni, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Luca Magnoni

    Luca Magnoni Guest

    I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.

    I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
    my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace the
    170mm crancks the gruppo comes with.

    So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here (right
    length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the chainrings etc?

    As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced to
    use the 170 mm.

    Thanks in advance for your advice Luca
     
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  2. Jim

    Jim Guest

    5mm... would it really make that much difference ?

    "Luca Magnoni" <l u c a . m a g n o n i @ t i n . i t> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.
    >
    > I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
    > my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
    > the 170mm crancks
    the
    > gruppo comes with.
    >
    > So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
    > (right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
    > chainrings etc?
    >
    > As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
    > to use the 170 mm.
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your advice Luca
     
  3. Luca Magnoni wrote:

    > I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.
    >
    > I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
    > my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
    > the 170mm crancks the gruppo comes with.
    >
    > So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
    > (right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
    > chainrings etc?

    This will work fine.

    > As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
    > to use the 170 mm.

    I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff is,
    to a large extent, "orphaned."

    There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
    Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.

    Sheldon "Stick With The Odd Numbers" Brown +-----------------------------------------------+
    | I saw a man pursuing the horizon; | Round and round they sped. | I was disturbed at this; |
    | I accosted the man. |
    | |
    | "It is futile," I said, | "You can never--" |
    | |
    | "You lie," he cried, | And ran on. | --Stephen Crane |
    +-----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  4. On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    > is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
    > since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
    > arguably better.

    Great, Luca. Any vultures in sight yet? I was just thinking of paying you a visit ...

    Sergio Pisa
     
  5. Luca Magnoni

    Luca Magnoni Guest

    "Jim" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email protected]...
    > 5mm... would it really make that much difference ?

    <cut>

    In my case (very short and muscular legs combined with weak knees and hips) yes. I solved 95% of
    my bike-related problems when I switched from 170 to 165, 3 years ago, and my racing improved a
    lot as well. I don't take part into crack length debates as I think it's a really subjective
    matter, but when I talk about myself, I know that it made a big difference. Now, would you please
    reply to my question?

    Thanks Luca
     
  6. Luca Magnoni

    Luca Magnoni Guest

    <cut>

    > I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    > is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
    > since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
    > arguably better.

    <cut>

    Sheldon, thanks for your answer.

    As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?) extra
    chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these will be
    hard to find in the future. The groups will be on a spare bike (steel Bianchi) that I don't plan to
    use for heavy duty. Let's call it a little present I will give to myself.

    The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro... now, what do you mean -above- by WAY better? please explain. I
    don't see the 2001 Veloce that my wife has on her Pinarello *so much* better than 96 Record (I have
    tried it), and for sure the second one has more "charme" (even if it's less compatible with the
    current 9 and 10 speed gruppos, I admit it). Chains, for instance, used to last much longer in the
    95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

    Thanks in advance for your second answer Luca
     
  7. Luca Magnoni

    Luca Magnoni Guest

    "Sergio SERVADIO" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:p[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > > I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    > > is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
    > > since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
    > > arguably better.
    >
    > Great, Luca. Any vultures in sight yet? I was just thinking of paying you a visit ...
    >
    > Sergio Pisa
    >

    No vultures around here, and you're always welcome. Luca
     
  8. I wrote:

    >>I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    >>is, to a large extent, "orphaned." There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff
    >>since then. Current Chorus, even Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is
    >>arguably better.

    Luca Magnoni wrote:

    > As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?)
    > extra chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these
    > will be hard to find in the future. The groups will be on a spare bike (steel Bianchi) that I
    > don't plan to use for heavy duty. Let's call it a little present I will give to myself.

    Chains aren't a problem, any modern chain will work, but pickings are very slim for replacement
    8-speed cassettes.

    > The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro... now, what do you mean -above- by WAY better? please explain. I
    > don't see the 2001 Veloce that my wife has on her Pinarello *so much* better than 96 Record (I
    > have tried it), and for sure the second one has more "charme" (even if it's less compatible with
    > the current 9 and 10 speed gruppos, I admit it). Chains, for instance, used to last much longer in
    > the 95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

    I'm not aware of any important difference in chain longevity.

    The newer rear hubs in particular are greatly improved over the older ones, which were prone to
    bending axles.

    Then there is that extra sprocket, which is a Good Thing.

    I don't know what local prices are where you are, but Chorus is the hot ticket, best value
    in the line.

    Sheldon "Likes New And Old Campagnolo Stuff, But Not Middle-Aged" Brown
    +------------------------------------+
    | Experience is a hard teacher, | because she gives the test first, | the lesson after. --
    | Vernon Law |
    +------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
    FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  9. On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:33:17 -0500, Luca Magnoni wrote:

    > I need an advice on wether or not I should buy a Campy gruppo.
    >
    > I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's
    > my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to replace
    > the 170mm crancks the gruppo comes with.
    >
    > So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here
    > (right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the
    > chainrings etc?

    It'll work fine.
    >
    > As I get a very good deal on the gruppo, I'd really like to buy but I wouldn't like to be forced
    > to use the 170 mm.

    Well, the difference between 165mm and 170mm cranks is not much.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little
    statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
  10. Luca-<< I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new and w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l!
    But, it's my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available that I could use to
    replace the 170mm cranks.

    << So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano bb that I have here (right
    length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck between the chainrings etc?

    It will work just fine. Remember that TA has really pretty cranks in 165mm as well...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. Capt Bike-<< I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and
    8-speed stuff is, to a large extent, "orphaned."

    8s cogsets still being made by Campagnolo. Sram makes really great 8s chains. Inside of shifter uses
    same springs as the 9/10s units. ANY rder will work with 8s ERGO, including 10s Record from 2003,
    w/o modification.

    While I agree that 8s stuff is not as available as 9/10s stuff...It is still possible to use and
    find parts for Campagnolo 8s equipment.

    << There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
    Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.

    I think the best stuff Campagnolo made was 1996(8s) and 1997(9s) Record gruppos.

    Shifters are a wee bit softer now and lots 'o' cogs, but the crank and BBs are the same, brakes are
    essentuially the same. Modern hubs are really nice but the older ones weren't bad(ti axles and all).

    I don't see how 2003 Veloce is arguably better than 1996 Record...in what ways?

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  12. On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:42:08 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    > is, to a large extent, "orphaned."

    Good point. It may be why you're getting this at such a "good" deal. I gave up on 8-speed, since I
    believe that parts will very soon become unobtainable.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
    stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
    morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt
     
  13. I wrote:

    > I'd caution you that Campagnolo doesn't support their older groups very well, and 8-speed stuff
    > is, to a large extent, "orphaned."
    >
    > 8s cogsets still being made by Campagnolo. Sram makes really great 8s chains. Inside of shifter
    > uses same springs as the 9/10s units. ANY rder will work with 8s ERGO, including 10s Record from
    > 2003, w/o modification.

    8-speed cassettes have gone through periods of being utterly unavailable, though at present it isn't
    a problem.

    > While I agree that 8s stuff is not as available as 9/10s stuff...It is still possible to use and
    > find parts for Campagnolo 8s equipment.

    Yes, it is possible now, but given Campagnolo's recent track record, I'd be nervous about
    availability in a very few years.

    > << There has also been a LOT of improvement in Campagnolo stuff since then. Current Chorus, even
    > Daytona stuff is WAY better than 96 Record. Even Veloce is arguably better.
    >
    > I think the best stuff Campagnolo made was 1996(8s) and 1997(9s) Record gruppos.
    >
    > Shifters are a wee bit softer now and lots 'o' cogs, but the crank and BBs are the same,

    He was going to swap out the crank anyway, 'cause the gruppo he was looking at had the wrong arm
    length. That fact greatly reduced the "bargain" factor of the older gruppo he was looking at.

    > brakes are essentuially the same. Modern hubs are really nice but the older ones weren't bad(ti
    > axles and all).
    >
    > I don't see how 2003 Veloce is arguably better than 1996 Record...in what ways?

    I must admit that I haven't yet dealt with any 2003 Veloce stuff...I was kinda hoping they'd gone to
    the improved rear hub design, but perhaps that was overoptimistic of me. I've generally not been too
    well impressed with Veloce, especially the cheesy Taiwanese front hubs.

    I do consider the 9th sprocket a siginificant upgrade, though some folks wouldn't agree with
    me on that.

    Did '96 record have the ball-bearing shifters?

    Sheldon "One Speed Or Nine" Brown
    +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
    | "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
    | thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
    | cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
    | impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
    +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  14. Luca Magnoni

    Luca Magnoni Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email protected]...
    > Luca-<< I have found a NOS Campagnolo Record 8 speed (year 96), brand new
    and
    > w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l! But, it's my usual problem, I use 165 mm crancks and there's nothing available
    > that I could use to replace the 170mm cranks.
    >
    > << So, I could put a 9-speed (year 99) Ultegra crancks on with a Shimano
    bb
    > that I have here (right length of course), but will it work, or will the 8-speed chain get stuck
    > between the chainrings etc?
    >
    > It will work just fine. Remember that TA has really pretty cranks in 165mm
    as
    > well...
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    I don't think that a 300 USD crank (+shipping, as nobody sells them here) are worth it... at least
    on a 300 Euro gruppo... Ciao Luca
     
  15. On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:32:45 -0500, Luca Magnoni wrote:

    > As far as this part -above- of your answer is concerned, I was thinking of buying 2 or 3 (4?)
    > extra chains directly from Campagnolo (the factory is less than 100 miles from my house) as these
    > will be hard to find in the future.

    Chains are not the problem. Sachs chains will be around for a long while. Cassettes! Buy cassettes!

    > The gruppo will cost me 300 Euro...

    Not such a bargain, I don't think.

    . Chains, for instance,
    > used to last much longer in the 95, 96 and 97 Campy groups, isn't it?

    They used to last longer in the '70s, when chains were chains and men were men...

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
    objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |
     
  16. Terry Rudd

    Terry Rudd Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > I wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > I do consider the 9th sprocket a siginificant upgrade, though some folks wouldn't agree with me
    > on that.
    >
    > Did '96 record have the ball-bearing shifters?

    Yes, So did 1995 Record. I would argue that 1995 was also a great year for Campagnolo, with the move
    to the very nice low profile cranks- both Chorus and Record groups that year were nice upgrades over
    1994 IMHO.

    BTW, I agree with you on your assertion on 9 speed being better. I was a happy rider on 5 speeds,
    then 6, then 7, and then 8 but I like the flexibility for cassettes at 9 speed. That said, I have no
    need or desire to go to 10 speed unless Campy's availability forces me to.

    >
    > Sheldon "One Speed Or Nine" Brown
    > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
    > | "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
    > | thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
    > | cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
    > | impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
    > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    > Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    > shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  17. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
    > | "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
    > | thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
    > | cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
    > | impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
    > +-----------------------------------------------------------------+

    Fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe.

    One of the axioms of systems in _Systemantics_ by John Gall; original edition 1975, enlarged and
    going downhill successively ever since, sort of like anything you can name.
    --
    Ron Hardin [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
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