Mystery 80's/early 90's Steel Frame - Can you help?

[smiffy69]

Hi
I have recently acquired a steel frame bike to use as a winter trainer. The bike hadn't been ridden in five years, the cables were seized and the whole thing was really filthy and difficult to see past the grease & grime. I was told it was a Reynolds frame - but having stripped it down, I'm really not sure. I really like the frame but would love to know what it is so that I can have it built back up to something that looks "right". I have been looking on the Internet, and to be honest the best of the knowledge seems to be on here so I am hoping you can help./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Here is what I know

It it steel and has Ultech dropouts as they are stamped Ultec, they also have a tiny emblem on the rear dropouts that looks like a three rider peleton - I can't find anything on Google that looks like it.

The bottom bracket has four cut-outs and has the number 230267 on the none drive side (no letters) and "56" towards the front - which I assume is the frame size, it also has "56" stamped on the forks.

It has a chain hanger on the rear stay and the cable guides run along the bottom of the top tube, rather than the top and only has fixings for a single bottle cage.

When I first took the forks out it looked like "corde" was written faintly - perhaps "Concorde" originally but this came off during cleaning.

The frame was originally white, but was completely stripped of all original decals, re-sprayed yellow and made up to look like an '87 Pinarello - I don't think it is a Pinerello tho as the break bridge looks different and the cable isn't routed in the same way, although the lug work and seat post cluster look very similar.

There is very little that I think was original on the bike - but perhaps the handlebars & stem which are Cinelli and the seat clamp bolt is stamped Campag. the rest of the components are a mixture of very old and old Shimano which I think were added later.

I can't see/feel any seams inside the tubing so would I be right in thinking it is cold drawn, also I can't feel any rifling at all - I think I am hoping it could be a Columbus SL frame - although I can't find any Columbus markings at all.

I would be really chuffed to find out it is a Concorde/Ciocc frame - but whatever it is I think it is very pretty and I am happy to have it and would just really like to see it looking as it should.

I have dropped a few pics at the below drop box links - if there is anything at all that you can think of that may help identify it, I would be very grateful.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16925874/full%20bike.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16925874/08012011001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16925874/05012011010.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16925874/05012011001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16925874/05012011.jpg

Many thanks
Michelle

 

[oldbobcat]

Whatever it is, it's nice. The cutouts in the lugs and bb shell, pretty fork blade bend, pretty profile, and cast fork crown indicate an above-average level of design and workmanship. The thick finish, though, indicates not up to pro level. My guess is the tubes are double butted but something milder than Columbus SL. After you're done with the restoration, it will be a fun rider and conversation starter at group rides. Good luck.

 

[smiffy69]

Many thanks Oldbobcat
It is coming along really well, I'm looking forward to getting it back on the road before the end of the winter /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif I can't believe the patience needed for the re-spray. Would you have any view on whether it could be a Ciocc frame or not. I believe they shipped a good many as just framesets that were built up by LBSs. Or is the any chance that Reynolds did use Ultech dropouts?

Thanks again for you help.

 

[oldbobcat]

When Ciocc hit the States, around 1980 or so, it was only with their pro-level Mockba frame. Its distinguishing features were rather steep head and seat tube angles, rather short top tube, pantograph engraving on the fork crown, a chrome fork, and full chrome plating on the seat and chain stays, like this

Often, the problem with identifying second-tier bikes is the absence of permanent identifiers. Also, the fabrication of these bikes was often jobbed out to other shops.that might be building near identical Bianchis or Bottecchias. So I'm not sayin' it ain't, just sayin' it's too hard to tell.

This link has a photo with specs and lineage of one of those first-in-the-states bikes. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9157103@N05/4099866366/

 

[wallymann]

i'd like to point out an exception to this rule. while many/most italian frames, even ciocc, had the short top-tubes, there is a set of ciocc produced in the '84 timeframe with "long" frames.

i have an '84 mockba and in addition to the very steep angles, it also has a very long-ish top-tube...it's 58x58 square, and i've seen another non-mockba ciocc of similar vintage that is 59x59 square and other similarly "long" frames.

the ciocc i've seen before 84 and after 84 are more traditional-italian with the shortish top-tubes, but there is a small population of ciocc that are the exception.



Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

... Its distinguishing features were rather steep head and seat tube angles, rather short top tube...

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Concorde used Ultech dropouts.

Possibly a Colombo model made from Colombus Aelle tubing.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread49325.html

Paganini also used Ultech dropouts (in addition to Colombus and Campy and Gipiemme).

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Evidently, Ultech dropouts were also used on the Concorde Aquila model: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-concorde-aquila-pdm-frameset-139102612