NBC - Kerry really won



"Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> We lost. Feel sad, plot next time, but get on with your
> life. A bike ride might help.


You didn't lose. Kerry lost. The American people won. We didn't end up
with Kerry. Getting on with our lives is a good idea and a bike ride always
helps.

Cheto
 
"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "dgk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:53:08 -0500, "psycholist" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"dgk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> Ok, look. I just want to let everyone here to know how much I
> >>> appreciate your aid in my struggle to become a full time bike
> >>> commuter. You are all now officially my friends. My best friend (a
> >>
> >>(huge snip)
> >>
> >>No. He didn't.
> >>
> >>This is nothing but speculation, rumor and innuendo. And why are you
> >>invoking NBC in the subject line? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see
> >>anything attributed to NBC. If you're trying to borrow legitimacy by
> >>invoking them, that's a real hoot. I thought little Katie was gonna cry
> >>when she had to announce that ... BUSH WON!
> >>
> >>Please ... get over it.
> >>
> >>Bob C.
> >>

> > NxC is a convention in several newsgroups that stands for NO x
> > CONTENT. As in No Bike Content. It enables folks to skip non-topic
> > posts should they choose. Not that a statement like KERRY WON could be
> > mistaken for bike content, but it is considered polite. Any
> > resemblence to NBC the Network is unintentional. They would never run
> > something harmful to their corporate masters.
> >
> > Is it innuendo that black voters were six times more likely to have
> > their vote discarded than white voters? That was last time, I bet it
> > is the same this time.
> >
> >

>
> I've been participating in this newsgroup and several other

cycling-related
> ones for a decade. I've never seen NBC used as you describe. I rather
> suspect a deliberate attempt to deceive the reader into thinking NBC was
> making the claim that Kerry really won.
>
> And you continue to spew innuendo.
>
> Bob C.


You are correct, Bob. I've never seen "NxC" used---EVER. "OT" is the
accepted convention. That being said, I think it's amazing that people
continue to suggest that there's a conspiracy afoot. If the problem is that
a small percentage of the overall population cannot complete their ballots
properly, then perhaps it's the fault of the individuals, not the ballots?
>
 
"Joshua Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
.... snip ...
> Because an election isn't a horse race, it's a political decision, and
> every second of news coverage devoted to daily fluctuations in poll
> numbers is worse than useless -- it detracts from time spent discussing
> the issues, and it encourages undecideds to vote based on herd momentum
> rather than either taking the time to understand the issues or doing the
> responsible democratic thing and not voting.


That may not be a very popular viewpoint, but it's one I happen to agree
with very strongly. Plus, I think you stated it very well. I've never felt
that voting is a "civic responsibility" (as the media and candidates seem to
believe), but rather that being an informed voter is.

-Don (and yes, I did vote, but not in categories where I was ill-informed)
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:28:59 -0800, Bill Baka <[email protected]> wrote
> in message <[email protected]>:
>
> >Should we say that we have just elected the lesser of 2 idiots?

>


I am a Democrat, I take pride in being a liberal. I have nightmares
regarding conservatives, the right wing, the moral majority and
republicans in general. Sometimes I wake up screaming. Yet I must
admit I voted the party this time. I was not that impressed with the
candidate even though I worked hard on the campaign. Hopefully in 4
years we will have a strong candidate. Unless the world ends before
that time. AND IT BETTER NOT BECAUSE I have done my job raising three
kids to adulthood, and now I deserve grandchildren. So keep us safe.
Mr. Bush while I wait for those grandkids.
http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/
 
>[email protected]

wrote:

>Here's a question for you, why are the companies that own the non paper
>ballot voting machines refusing to allow an audit of the source code? Do
>you think making a program that counts things is such a national security
>secret that no one should be allowed to look at the source code?
>
>Or do you prefer to be ruled, oh, sorry, governed by people who
>obstruct vote verification?


1- No one has offered anything like evidence of any vote fraud. They have
merely said it was/is "possible". If I assert that I think it is possible you
have bankrolled terrorists should I then have the right to review all of your
financial records?
2- You have not offered any example/proof/instance of any *governmental*
resistance to a review of the software used to tabulate votes. Do you think you
are being governed by the private companies that produced those machines?
3- The results would be made public but the audit you want would have to remain
secret to protect the companies' proprietary rights so who will audit the
auditors?

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
Gooserider wrote:

> You are correct, Bob. I've never seen "NxC" used---EVER. "OT" is the
> accepted convention. That being said, I think it's amazing that people
> continue to suggest that there's a conspiracy afoot. If the problem is that
> a small percentage of the overall population cannot complete their ballots
> properly, then perhaps it's the fault of the individuals, not the ballots?


My mother works at the polls and her stories of what people
attempt to do, or actually do, is sometimes amazing.

Here in my fair town in western MA, we have a paper ballot
with scan lines. You vote for a candidate by connecting the
lines beside his name. Pretty straight forward. No punches,
no switches, no X's. Just complete a line (like "--- ---"
becoming "--------". The line is then optically scanned and
count electronically tallied. A paper ballot remains for any
recount needs. Seems a good system.

Yet people manage to vote for two opposing candidates for the
same office, and even manage to fill in the "vote line"
*diagonally* across two candidates!

There is poll worker error as well. In a recent election to
overturn "proposition 2 1/2" limits on raising property taxes,
the vote was defeated by 1 (one) vote. During the recount,
it was discovered some ballots were left at the bottom of the
counting machine. The override was defeated by about 8 votes
on recount, but in a politically charged environment, this
would no doubt have been interpreted as a sinister attempt to
"steal" an election.

There has always been, and always will be, the *knucklehead
vote*. It's simply that in our politically polarized times,
conspiracy whackos, or people bent on political sour grapes,
get to make something more than justified out of it.

The knucklehead vote has gained way too much attention in
recent elections!


SMH
 
Maggie wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:28:59 -0800, Bill Baka <[email protected]> wrote
>>in message <[email protected]>:
>>
>>
>>>Should we say that we have just elected the lesser of 2 idiots?

>>

>
> I am a Democrat, I take pride in being a liberal. I have nightmares
> regarding conservatives, the right wing, the moral majority and
> republicans in general. Sometimes I wake up screaming. Yet I must
> admit I voted the party this time. I was not that impressed with the
> candidate even though I worked hard on the campaign. Hopefully in 4
> years we will have a strong candidate. Unless the world ends before
> that time. AND IT BETTER NOT BECAUSE I have done my job raising three
> kids to adulthood, and now I deserve grandchildren. So keep us safe.
> Mr. Bush while I wait for those grandkids.
> http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/


Gosh, thanks for reminding us, the
election was all about *you.*

You "wake up screaming?" "Unless the world
ends?" Another serious 'Crat postulation.
 
[email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:
>
> 3- The results would be made public but the audit you want would have to remain
> secret to protect the companies' proprietary rights so who will audit the
> auditors?


So you are suggesting that the "trade secrets" of the companies that
make voting machines are more sacred than the public's right to free
and fair elections?

Here's a good example of electronic voting machines' tendency to vote
Republican:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041105/D865R1DO0.html

How many lesser instances of this sort went unnoticed? Why did it
happen? How will we ever know these things without having open source
code for the machines and a voter-verifiable paper record to check
against?

Chalo Colina
 
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:59:07 GMT, Little Meow <[email protected]> wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:53:08 -0500, "psycholist" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"dgk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> Ok, look. I just want to let everyone here to know how much I
>>>> appreciate your aid in my struggle to become a full time bike
>>>> commuter. You are all now officially my friends. My best friend (a
>>>
>>>(huge snip)
>>>
>>>No. He didn't.
>>>
>>>This is nothing but speculation, rumor and innuendo. And why are you
>>>invoking NBC in the subject line? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see
>>>anything attributed to NBC. If you're trying to borrow legitimacy by
>>>invoking them, that's a real hoot. I thought little Katie was gonna cry
>>>when she had to announce that ... BUSH WON!
>>>
>>>Please ... get over it.
>>>
>>>Bob C.
>>>

>> NxC is a convention in several newsgroups that stands for NO x
>> CONTENT. As in No Bike Content. It enables folks to skip non-topic
>> posts should they choose. Not that a statement like KERRY WON could be
>> mistaken for bike content, but it is considered polite. Any
>> resemblence to NBC the Network is unintentional. They would never run
>> something harmful to their corporate masters.
>>
>> Is it innuendo that black voters were six times more likely to have
>> their vote discarded than white voters? That was last time, I bet it
>> is the same this time.
>>

>
>"OT:" and "Off Topic:" are used in many groups, although
>"OT" means something else in the scientology groups.


I'm almost sure I'm going to regret this but, what is OT in the
scientology groups?
 
On 09 Nov 2004 04:24:31 GMT, [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:

>>dgk [email protected]

>
>wrote:
>
>>NxC is a convention in several newsgroups that stands for NO x
>>CONTENT. As in No Bike Content. It enables folks to skip non-topic
>>posts should they choose. Not that a statement like KERRY WON could be
>>mistaken for bike content, but it is considered polite. Any
>>resemblence to NBC the Network is unintentional. They would never run
>>something harmful to their corporate masters.

>
>---snip---
>
>An "unintentional resemblance", huh? I'll tell you what I sometimes tell
>soon-to-be defendants- "I see. You were man enough to commit the crime but
>you're not man enough to admit it, you want to try to lie your way out of
>trouble. Okay, I can deal with that. Do me a favor though. If you are going to
>lie at least make it a *good* lie and not the weakass **** you're talking now."
>
>>Is it innuendo that black voters were six times more likely to have
>>their vote discarded than white voters? That was last time, I bet it
>>is the same this time.

>
>No, that's not innuendo. It's an assertion, one you've made without offering a
>shred of evidence.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Hunt


Take a look at rec.music.artists.springsteen. You will find many posts
labeled as NBC for no bruce content.
 
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 06:01:16 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Hunrobe wrote:
>
>> >[email protected]

>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >So you really think, with thousands of lawyers from both sides waiting to
>> >pounce, several different kinds of electronic voting machines, many more
>> >types of non-electronic machines, Republican and Democratic poll workers,
>> >inspectors from the UN...with all that...the Republicans managed to inject
>> >enough ghost votes into the system to change the outcome of the election?
>> >And do this completely (so far) undetected.

>>
>> Let's accept as fact for a moment that this really *did* happen. The massive
>> undetected and unprovable vote fraud being alleged leads to the inescapable
>> conclusion that the Republicans were able to outsmart the best people the
>> Democrats could find to ferret out vote fraud. Leaving aside differences in
>> political philosophies for a moment, do we really want to be governed by people
>> too dumb to detect vote fraud on the widepread and massive scale necessary to
>> account for Bush's clear win? If they can't even manage to make sure the vote
>> isn't cooked, what chance at all do they have of making smart decisions on the
>> much more complex matters of day-to-day governance?

>
>Here's a question for you, why are the companies that own the non paper
>ballot voting machines refusing to allow an audit of the source code? Do
>you think making a program that counts things is such a national security
>secret that no one should be allowed to look at the source code?
>
>Or do you prefer to be ruled, oh, sorry, governed by people who
>obstruct vote verification?


Las Vegas machines are audited much better than ballot machines. Hmm.
Perhaps that is not technically correct since the ballot machines are
not audited at all.
 
"dgk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 09 Nov 2004 04:24:31 GMT, [email protected] (Hunrobe) wrote:
>
> >>dgk [email protected]

> >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>NxC is a convention in several newsgroups that stands for NO x
> >>CONTENT. As in No Bike Content. It enables folks to skip non-topic
> >>posts should they choose. Not that a statement like KERRY WON could be
> >>mistaken for bike content, but it is considered polite. Any
> >>resemblence to NBC the Network is unintentional. They would never run
> >>something harmful to their corporate masters.

> >
> >---snip---
> >
> >An "unintentional resemblance", huh? I'll tell you what I sometimes tell
> >soon-to-be defendants- "I see. You were man enough to commit the crime

but
> >you're not man enough to admit it, you want to try to lie your way out of
> >trouble. Okay, I can deal with that. Do me a favor though. If you are

going to
> >lie at least make it a *good* lie and not the weakass **** you're talking

now."
> >
> >>Is it innuendo that black voters were six times more likely to have
> >>their vote discarded than white voters? That was last time, I bet it
> >>is the same this time.

> >
> >No, that's not innuendo. It's an assertion, one you've made without

offering a
> >shred of evidence.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Bob Hunt

>
> Take a look at rec.music.artists.springsteen. You will find many posts
> labeled as NBC for no bruce content.


Then they need to take lessons in Netiquette. The convention is to use OT
when posting Off Topic subject matter. What's next---NWC posts in
misc.fitness.weights? NXBC in alt.video.games.xbox? OT is the standard.
 
"Maggie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:28:59 -0800, Bill Baka <[email protected]> wrote
> > in message <[email protected]>:
> >
> > >Should we say that we have just elected the lesser of 2 idiots?

> >

>
> I am a Democrat, I take pride in being a liberal. I have nightmares
> regarding conservatives, the right wing, the moral majority and
> republicans in general. Sometimes I wake up screaming. Yet I must
> admit I voted the party this time. I was not that impressed with the
> candidate even though I worked hard on the campaign. Hopefully in 4
> years we will have a strong candidate. Unless the world ends before
> that time. AND IT BETTER NOT BECAUSE I have done my job raising three
> kids to adulthood, and now I deserve grandchildren. So keep us safe.
> Mr. Bush while I wait for those grandkids.


Ever hear the term "hysterical liberal? You can't be serious---you wake up
screaming? Liberals have been JUST as active in suppressing rights and
freedoms, perhaps more so, than conservatives. Been to a college campus
lately? Try to do ANYTHING any member of a protected class may find
offensive and see how quickly you're booted. Try to have a bible study in a
public school. Nope, that's not good----but we can have gay and lesbian teen
clubs? The system is seriously whacked. Both the ultra left and the ultra
right are intent on imposing their wills.....
 
"dgk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Take a look at rec.music.artists.springsteen. You will find many posts
> labeled as NBC for no bruce content.


Similarly, in misc.kids.* people use NPC for no parenting content.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
 
>dgk [email protected]

wrote:

>Take a look at rec.music.artists.springsteen. You will find many posts
>labeled as NBC for no bruce content.
>


I looked there and hereby retract my accusation and apologize for calling you a
liar. My reservations about your unsupported assertion that black voters were
six times more likely to have their vote discarded than white voters remain
however.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
Hunrobe wrote:

> >[email protected]

>
> wrote:
>
> >Here's a question for you, why are the companies that own the non paper
> >ballot voting machines refusing to allow an audit of the source code? Do
> >you think making a program that counts things is such a national security
> >secret that no one should be allowed to look at the source code?
> >
> >Or do you prefer to be ruled, oh, sorry, governed by people who
> >obstruct vote verification?

>
> 1- No one has offered anything like evidence of any vote fraud.


I see, for you're playing catch 22 here; there's no evidence of vote fraud
because nobody can verify the voting process, so without verification,
there's no fraud.

And so far, there is evidence of voter fraud, try listening to more news
than fox for a change.


> They have
> merely said it was/is "possible". If I assert that I think it is possible you
> have bankrolled terrorists should I then have the right to review all of your
> financial records?


Only if you're in the government, the patriot act sees to that. Any more
dumb questions?



> 2- You have not offered any example/proof/instance of any *governmental*
> resistance to a review of the software used to tabulate votes. Do you think you
> are being governed by the private companies that produced those machines?


Think? A private corporation can collect our votes, tabulate them, and
give the results without a shred of proof, and without any possibility of
verification.. What do you call it?



> 3- The results would be made public but the audit you want would have to remain
> secret to protect the companies' proprietary rights so who will audit the
> auditors?


I assert that their proprietary rights shouldn't exist on simple counting software
for public elections. If the process can't be audited and verified, it shouldn't
be used.

Here's a question for you. Florida law specifies a recount in close elections.
How do you do that with paperless ballots? Yoiu don't see a conflict there?


--

-TTFN

-Steven
 
Hunrobe wrote:

> >[email protected]

>
> wrote:
>
> >So you really think, with thousands of lawyers from both sides waiting to
> >pounce, several different kinds of electronic voting machines, many more
> >types of non-electronic machines, Republican and Democratic poll workers,
> >inspectors from the UN...with all that...the Republicans managed to inject
> >enough ghost votes into the system to change the outcome of the election?
> >And do this completely (so far) undetected.

>
> Let's accept as fact for a moment that this really *did* happen. The massive
> undetected and unprovable vote fraud being alleged leads to the inescapable
> conclusion that the Republicans were able to outsmart the best people the
> Democrats could find to ferret out vote fraud. Leaving aside differences in
> political philosophies for a moment, do we really want to be governed by people
> too dumb to detect vote fraud on the widepread and massive scale necessary to
> account for Bush's clear win? If they can't even manage to make sure the vote
> isn't cooked, what chance at all do they have of making smart decisions on the
> much more complex matters of day-to-day governance?


And you want to be governed by people that commit and condone voter fraud,
is that your argument? If a crook is good enough to get away with a crime,
he should be your boss?


--

-TTFN

-Steven
 
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Maggie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:28:59 -0800, Bill Baka <[email protected]> wrote
> > > in message <[email protected]>:
> > >
> > > >Should we say that we have just elected the lesser of 2 idiots?
> > >


> Been to a college campus lately?


No, but I am still paying for my kids college tuitions and something
is definately out of whack in that area.
At one time college was affordable for the middle class. My third kid
is in college now and I figure by the time he is finished I will have
to work until I am 102 in order to retire. And lets not even discuss
paying for their health care.
 
Richard Tack <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<gn8kd.983$2h7.556@trnddc03>...
> Maggie wrote:
> > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:28:59 -0800, Bill Baka <[email protected]> wrote
> >>in message <[email protected]>:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Should we say that we have just elected the lesser of 2 idiots?
> >>

> >
> > I am a Democrat, I take pride in being a liberal. I have nightmares
> > regarding conservatives, the right wing, the moral majority and
> > republicans in general. Sometimes I wake up screaming. > > http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/

>
> Gosh, thanks for reminding us, the
> election was all about *you.* You "wake up screaming?" "Unless the world
> ends?" Another serious 'Crat postulation.


Oh lighten up........I would wake up screaming no matter who won. I
am not an intellectrual....I am just a liberal Democrat trying to pay
for college tuitions and healthcare. I am woman, I am middle
class...yes its all about me. ;-)
http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/
 

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