Nearly flatened a pedestrian this morning



M

Martin Dann

Guest
Ian Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:14:42 GMT, Jim Ley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:03:19 -0000, Tony Raven
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a similar one yesterday near London Victoria. Man sauntering
>>> across the road so I aimed to go round behind him

>> When a pedestrian is in the street, you're supposed to _stop_ to give
>> him right of way, not go around him.

>
> Says who (or what) (besides you)?


If you turn into a road, and someone is already crossing, then they have
right of way. (1)
If someone steps onto a zebra crossing, they have right of way.

If you are traveling at a fixed speed, and someone steps from the
pavement without looking, then I don't believe they have right of way.

>> going around someone who's seen and acknowledged you is fine, as you
>> noted yourself the gentleman hadn't, so you should've acted
>> appropriately and stopped as is required.

>
> So, you're saying that the bloke had not seen Tony? Why diod he stop
> and reverse then?


He suddenly became aware of Tony after he had started to cross, and
tried to take avoiding action. Peds who do this are the worst kind.


(1) Too many car drivers don't know that one.
 
A

Andy Leighton

Guest
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:41:08 GMT, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you are traveling at a fixed speed, and someone steps from the
> pavement without looking, then I don't believe they have right of way.


I shall always make sure I am accelerating or decelerating by tiny
amounts then so I am not travelling at a fixed speed <g>

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
 
A

Andy Leighton

Guest
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:41:08 GMT, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you are traveling at a fixed speed, and someone steps from the
> pavement without looking, then I don't believe they have right of way.


I shall always make sure I am accelerating or decelerating by tiny
amounts then so I am not travelling at a fixed speed <g>

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
 
M

Mark McNeill

Guest
Response to Martin Dann
> >> When a pedestrian is in the street, you're supposed to _stop_ to give
> >> him right of way, not go around him.

> >
> > Says who (or what) (besides you)?

>
> If you turn into a road, and someone is already crossing, then they have
> right of way. (1)
> If someone steps onto a zebra crossing, they have right of way.
>
> If you are traveling at a fixed speed, and someone steps from the
> pavement without looking, then I don't believe they have right of way.



And I'm curious at the equation of "he has right of way" with "you have
to stop" as opposed to, say, "you can't obstruct him"; but if there's
any basis for the PP's remark, he'll presumably provide it.


--
Mark, UK
"Listen! There was never an artistic period. There was never an art-
loving nation."
 
D

Duncan Smith

Guest

>
> I wasn't going fast, but I knew that I'd have to keep an eye on the
> hooded young lady, in case she did something stupid. Sure enough, just
> before I reached them, she steps off the pavement, right into my path.
> I shout, apply the brakes on and prepare to change directions rapidly.
> She doesn't respond, but continues to saunter across the road, her
> attension fixed on her conversation with her friend above. Lucky that
> she did continue in the direction she was heading, as I was able to
> swing behind her. Thankfully, her companion seemed to gather what was
> going on, and remained on the pavement.
>


May be able to beat you there. This morning I set off for work and
got to the crossroads at the bottom of the road, traffic lights were
on green so I just turn left and after a score of yards or so have a
collision that knocked me off the bike (buckled the wheel and pedal
too).

Turned around and saw a pedestrian sitting in the middle of the road.
My peripheral vision in the dark isn't all that great so I can't do
much about people who want to walk in front of me, and maybe he wasn't
particularly looking out for cyclists or had his head down or
something.

First I was aware of him was when we collided. I did wonder if the
injuries were more serious how the police would go about propotioning
the blame?

Regards,

Duncan
 
J

Jim Ley

Guest
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:10:52 -0000, Mark McNeill
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Response to Martin Dann
>> >> When a pedestrian is in the street, you're supposed to _stop_ to give
>> >> him right of way, not go around him.
>> >
>> > Says who (or what) (besides you)?

>>
>> If you turn into a road, and someone is already crossing, then they have
>> right of way. (1)
>> If someone steps onto a zebra crossing, they have right of way.
>>
>> If you are traveling at a fixed speed, and someone steps from the
>> pavement without looking, then I don't believe they have right of way.

>
>
>And I'm curious at the equation of "he has right of way" with "you have
>to stop" as opposed to,


That's what right of way means... they have the right to use that part
of the road, so you no longer do, therefore you don't have to stop -
you could turn around, but you certainly cannot enter his part of the
road...

Jim.
 
J

Jim Ley

Guest
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), Duncan Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Turned around and saw a pedestrian sitting in the middle of the road.
>My peripheral vision in the dark isn't all that great so I can't do
>much about people who want to walk in front of me, and maybe he wasn't
>particularly looking out for cyclists or had his head down or
>something.
>
>First I was aware of him was when we collided. I did wonder if the
>injuries were more serious how the police would go about propotioning
>the blame?


You hit a pedestrian in the road... It's almost certainly your fault,
certainly nothing in your description has made me think that it's
anything but your fault.

Just like with most of the stories of car/bike accidents, it's the
cyclist who was in the right, but here, you definately sound very in
the wrong - you didn't even mention seeing the pedestrian on the
pavement as a potential hazard.

Jim.
 
D

Duncan Smith

Guest
On Nov 21, 7:53 pm, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), Duncan Smith
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Turned around and saw a pedestrian sitting in the middle of the road.
> >My peripheral vision in the dark isn't all that great so I can't do
> >much about people who want to walk in front of me, and maybe he wasn't
> >particularly looking out for cyclists or had his head down or
> >something.

>
> >First I was aware of him was when we collided. I did wonder if the
> >injuries were more serious how the police would go about propotioning
> >the blame?

>
> You hit a pedestrian in the road... It's almost certainly your fault,
> certainly nothing in your description has made me think that it's
> anything but your fault.
>
> Just like with most of the stories of car/bike accidents, it's the
> cyclist who was in the right, but here, you definately sound very in
> the wrong - you didn't even mention seeing the pedestrian on the
> pavement as a potential hazard.
>


I suspect by the time I'd turned the corner, he was already in the
road. It wasn't a zebra crossing and the traffic lights were on
green. Surely that gives me right of way? How do you work out that
any bike or car hitting a pedestrian in the road is almost certainly
the fault of the bike or car? Shouldn't pedestrians look both ways
and make sure the way is clear before crossing?

Regards,

Duncan
 
M

Martin Dann

Guest
Duncan Smith wrote:
> On Nov 21, 7:53 pm, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:40:05 -0800 (PST), Duncan Smith
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Turned around and saw a pedestrian sitting in the middle of the road.
>>> My peripheral vision in the dark isn't all that great so I can't do
>>> much about people who want to walk in front of me, and maybe he wasn't
>>> particularly looking out for cyclists or had his head down or
>>> something.


In that case you need to slow down and get better lights on your bike.

>>> First I was aware of him was when we collided. I did wonder if the
>>> injuries were more serious how the police would go about propotioning
>>> the blame?

>> You hit a pedestrian in the road... It's almost certainly your fault,
>> certainly nothing in your description has made me think that it's
>> anything but your fault.



> I suspect by the time I'd turned the corner, he was already in the
> road.


You turned into the road, and he was already crossing, therefore he had
right of way to continue crossing. I have nearly been hit twice in the
last few days by cars turning into a side road after I have started
crossing.

It wasn't a zebra crossing and the traffic lights were on
> green.


A green light means go if it is safe. It does not mean go no matter what.


Surely that gives me right of way? How do you work out that
> any bike or car hitting a pedestrian in the road is almost certainly
> the fault of the bike or car?


You should be able to stop in the distance you can see. IF you go around
a corner, and there is an obstacle in the way, you should stop, not
blindly cycle into it.

Shouldn't pedestrians look both ways
> and make sure the way is clear before crossing?


Yes, peds. should look, but they may not be able to see a vehicle that
is on a different road to them.
 
E

Ekul Namsob

Guest
bugbear <[email protected]_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
> > bugbear <[email protected]_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
> >
> >> David Lloyd wrote:
> >>> I wasn't going fast, but I knew that I'd have to keep an eye on the
> >>> hooded young lady, in case she did something stupid. Sure enough, just
> >>> before I reached them, she steps off the pavement, right into my path.
> >> I had a school boy (guess age 17) do this;
> >> He was of the "too cool for school" persuasion,
> >> swaggering along, talking at his mates.
> >>
> >> Then he just stepped...
> >>
> >> I shoulder checked him - hard.

> >
> > Who had right of way?

>
> Well, I'm willing to be corrected on the highway code,
> but I was riding along, on the road, about 1 yard from the pavement.
>
> I think *I* had right of way.


You are, as I understand it, wrong.

I know of no authoritative source for this but believe (from a lot of
recent hearsay) that pedestrians pretty much always have right of way.

Certainly, if you shoulder checked me, hard, (as you say) I would be
minded to report your assault to the police.

Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
E

Ekul Namsob

Guest
Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:

> I had a similar one yesterday near London Victoria. Man sauntering
> across the road so I aimed to go round behind him when he suddenly sees
> me and stops dead right on the spot I am heading for. I make a further
> correction to go further behind him when he starts to step backwards in
> panic. I eventually ended up coming to a stop in front of him and let
> him sort himself out and go on his way. If only the dozy idiot had
> carried on walking all would have been fine.


A chap on a scooter used that excuse when I was using a zebra crossing.
He has now been charged with dangerous driving. I stopped because I
feared that he wouldn't stop in time. It may not have been a logical
response. Please, cycle more carefully.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
E

Ekul Namsob

Guest
Duncan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> I suspect by the time I'd turned the corner, he was already in the
> road. It wasn't a zebra crossing and the traffic lights were on
> green. Surely that gives me right of way?


What do you think that a green light means?

> How do you work out that any bike or car hitting a pedestrian in the road
> is almost certainly the fault of the bike or car? Shouldn't pedestrians
> look both ways and make sure the way is clear before crossing?


Please read the Highway Code.

"There is a risk of pedestrians, especially children, stepping
unexpectedly into the road."

"Drive carefully and slowly when... turning at road junctions; give way
to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are
turning"

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
S

Squashme

Guest
On 21 Nov, 22:46, [email protected] (Ekul
Namsob) wrote:
> Duncan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I suspect by the time I'd turned the corner, he was already in the
> > road. It wasn't a zebra crossing and the traffic lights were on
> > green. Surely that gives me right of way?

>
> What do you think that a green light means?
>
> > How do you work out that any bike or car hitting a pedestrian in the road
> > is almost certainly the fault of the bike or car? Shouldn't pedestrians
> > look both ways and make sure the way is clear before crossing?

>
> Please read the Highway Code.
>
> "There is a risk of pedestrians, especially children, stepping
> unexpectedly into the road."
>
> "Drive carefully and slowly when... turning at road junctions; give way
> to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are
> turning"
>


I was cycling along the offside of a stationary line of traffic. There
was no oncoming traffic in sight. A pinstriped important person strode
out right in front of me from between two cars, without looking in my
direction. With a cry of "Mummy", I clashed shoulders with him,
without knocking his bloody silly mobile phone out of his ear/hand
(probably hardly interrupted the flow). I rode on with a slight
oscillation,and some adrenalin entering my system (better late than
never).

And, apparently, I was to blame?
 
A

Andy Morris

Guest
Squashme wrote:
>
> I was cycling along the offside of a stationary line of traffic. There
> was no oncoming traffic in sight. A pinstriped important person strode
> out right in front of me from between two cars, without looking in my
> direction. With a cry of "Mummy", I clashed shoulders with him,
> without knocking his bloody silly mobile phone out of his ear/hand
> (probably hardly interrupted the flow). I rode on with a slight
> oscillation,and some adrenalin entering my system (better late than
> never).
>
> And, apparently, I was to blame?


yep, you should of had enough space between you and the line of traffic
combined with a speed that lets you stop or avoid him.

And on a selfish level, I know, from personal experience, that you can
do yourself a lot of harm hitting pedestrians.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtjinkasDotfreeserve.co.uk

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
 
R

Rob Morley

Guest
In article <1i7y8w8.1u0e1g3ycwx8wN%
[email protected]>, Ekul Namsob
[email protected] says...

> I know of no authoritative source for this but believe (from a lot of
> recent hearsay) that pedestrians pretty much always have right of way.
>

So if a pedestrian leaps out in front if me, inside my minimum stopping
distance, it's my fault when I hit him. Not.
 
M

Membrane

Guest
[email protected] (Ekul Namsob) wrote:

>> I think *I* had right of way.

>
>You are, as I understand it, wrong.
>
>I know of no authoritative source for this but believe (from a lot of
>recent hearsay) that pedestrians pretty much always have right of way.
>
>Certainly, if you shoulder checked me, hard, (as you say) I would be
>minded to report your assault to the police.


Afaik no legal rights can be inferred from a right of way. A judge would
look to establish if the cyclist could reasonably have prevented the
collision. A right of way is not a license to plow through without
regard, but neither is it a license for peds not to take care.

--
Membrane
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
In article <91dd0326-b6b2-4cfc-9da0-
[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> I was cycling along the offside of a stationary line of traffic. There
> was no oncoming traffic in sight. A pinstriped important person strode
> out right in front of me from between two cars, without looking in my
> direction. With a cry of "Mummy", I clashed shoulders with him,
> without knocking his bloody silly mobile phone out of his ear/hand
> (probably hardly interrupted the flow). I rode on with a slight
> oscillation,and some adrenalin entering my system (better late than
> never).
>
> And, apparently, I was to blame?
>


They must have been very tall cars or he was a very short person if you
could not see him striding between the cars before he stepped out. Did
you remember to utter the magic word SMIDSY to excuse yourself from any
blame otherwise what do you expect?

--
Tony

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has
taken place"
George Bernard Shaw
 
On Nov 22, 5:58 am, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <1i7y8w8.1u0e1g3ycwx8wN%
> [email protected]>, Ekul Namsob
> [email protected] says...
>
> > I know of no authoritative source for this but believe (from a lot of
> > recent hearsay) that pedestrians pretty much always have right of way.

>
> So if a pedestrian leaps out in front if me, inside my minimum stopping
> distance, it's my fault when I hit him. Not.


well, that would depend on the circumstances but if, as is more
likely, a pedestrian steps out without looking and you are going too
fast to be able to avoid a collision then yes, it could well be wholly
or partially your fault. There is case law to support every road
user's duty to account for unwise behaviour by a second party

best wishes
james
 
B

bugbear

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Nov 22, 5:58 am, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <1i7y8w8.1u0e1g3ycwx8wN%
>> [email protected]>, Ekul Namsob
>> [email protected] says...
>>
>>> I know of no authoritative source for this but believe (from a lot of
>>> recent hearsay) that pedestrians pretty much always have right of way.

>> So if a pedestrian leaps out in front if me, inside my minimum stopping
>> distance, it's my fault when I hit him. Not.

>
> well, that would depend on the circumstances but if, as is more
> likely, a pedestrian steps out without looking and you are going too
> fast to be able to avoid a collision then yes, it could well be wholly
> or partially your fault. There is case law to support every road
> user's duty to account for unwise behaviour by a second party


I was riding at 17-18 mph, 1 yard out from
the kerb.

If you think this is inappropriate,
what do you suggest I should have been doing?

BugBear
 
B

Brendan Halpin

Guest
bugbear <[email protected]_papermule.co.uk_trim> writes:

> I was riding at 17-18 mph, 1 yard out from
> the kerb.
>
> If you think this is inappropriate,
> what do you suggest I should have been doing?


If there are hazards to the side (and pedestrians certainly count)
ride at least 1.5m out.

As experience has told you, standard pedestrian operating
guidelines include the procedure "take one decisive step into the
roadway, then look for traffic".

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
mailto:[email protected] http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html
 

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