Necessity of 105 level components? and some beginner questions

[RC2]

Originally posted by Randybaker99
I guess the bottom line is that you better learn how to make adjustments from time to time, no matter what components you own.

Yeah, that's true. Have to adjust the Deore XT on my MTB every time I give it a really good beating. Getting familiar w/basic adjustments is advice that I too give to any newbie to cycling.

But my question is: does reliability (in terms of the shifters/deraileurs being more apt to stay in tune given the same treatment) vary much by groupo level?

[And yes there are lots of variables as in any of the other discussion posted here, I'm wondering if directionally there is much variance. ]

 

[wyllisx2]

Well since every one seems to be friends again I'd like to pose a new question.

In the price range for bikes I'm looking into I find a lot of mixing of Tiagra f/d & 105 r/d.

Any thoughts on the combo?

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by wyllisx2
Well since every one seems to be friends again I'd like to pose a new question.

In the price range for bikes I'm looking into I find a lot of mixing of Tiagra f/d & 105 r/d.

Any thoughts on the combo?

It's more marketing than anything. RD are highly visible. Looks like an impressive upgrade,that only cost the manufacturer a buck and they may jack the price by $25-50. You'll see 105 bikes with ultegra RD and the same on MTBs.

 

[plutov]

Hey, you gusy are awesome. I never though I would spark such an intense discussion and am getting more info than I could have wished for (besides all the hooey talk). Thanks.

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by boudreaux
It's more marketing than anything. RD are highly visible. Looks like an impressive upgrade,that only cost the manufacturer a buck and they may jack the price by $25-50. You'll see 105 bikes with ultegra RD and the same on MTBs.

As an interesting aside, this only seems to happen with Shimano stuff. You often see a 105 bike with Ultegra rear mech or Tiagra/105 or Ultegra/DA combos, but I don't recall ever seeing, say, an off-the-shelf bike with Centaur kit but a Chorus rear mech, or Chorus/Record etc. Wonder why that is? I don't think it's a compatibility issue, AFAIK all 10-speed Campag stuff is compatible with all other 10-speed Campag stuff.

 

[meehs]

Originally posted by wyllisx2
Well since every one seems to be friends again I'd like to pose a new question.

In the price range for bikes I'm looking into I find a lot of mixing of Tiagra f/d & 105 r/d.

Any thoughts on the combo?

It used to be that you could look at the RD on a bike to identify the group spec. Bike comapanies caught on to this and started "up-speccing" the RD in an attempt to increase the "bling" factor. Now it seems like they mix and match everything! I guess with the exception of Campagnolo stuff as byrne mentioned.

 

[lokstah]

Or, conversely, they 'down-spec' the shifters, which tend to be costly.

 

[beels99]

Originally posted by wyllisx2
Well since every one seems to be friends again I'd like to pose a new question.

In the price range for bikes I'm looking into I find a lot of mixing of Tiagra f/d & 105 r/d.

Any thoughts on the combo?

As I was recently shopping for a bike at relativally the same level and as I looked at the bikes that had the combo's their stated reasons for those combinations were that the RD has more shifting and wear and tear so therefore they upgrade it. While I actually just ended up with a purely 105 bike (spec. allez elite).

So i'm curious does the RD actually get more wear and tear as the LBS said or is it just a little added sparkle to the bike.

 

[DiabloScott]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
As an interesting aside, this only seems to happen with Shimano stuff. You often see a 105 bike with Ultegra rear mech or Tiagra/105 or Ultegra/DA combos, but I don't recall ever seeing, say, an off-the-shelf bike with Centaur kit but a Chorus rear mech, or Chorus/Record etc. Wonder why that is? I don't think it's a compatibility issue, AFAIK all 10-speed Campag stuff is compatible with all other 10-speed Campag stuff.

It happens with bikes that are sold only as complete bikes and almost all of those are Shimano spec'ed. You almost never see mixing on "build kits" whether Shimano or Campy, or on bikes with a choice of component packages, or on bikes packaged by decent shops.

 

[fushman]

Originally posted by beels99
As I was recently shopping for a bike at relativally the same level and as I looked at the bikes that had the combo's their stated reasons for those combinations were that the RD has more shifting and wear and tear so therefore they upgrade it. While I actually just ended up with a purely 105 bike (spec. allez elite).

So i'm curious does the RD actually get more wear and tear as the LBS said or is it just a little added sparkle to the bike.

shifters do lots of shifting and brakes do lots of braking, and they are often underspeced, so your lbs is full of it

 

[wyllisx2]

So I guess my question is would you spend an extra $200.00 US to get a full 105 w/carbon seat post over a Tiagra FD 105 RD & alu seatpost?

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by wyllisx2
So I guess my question is would you spend an extra $200.00 US to get a full 105 w/carbon seat post over a Tiagra FD 105 RD & alu seatpost?

Not my Nickel,but the bling value of that CF post is priceless for some.

 

[RC2]

Originally posted by wyllisx2
So I guess my question is would you spend an extra $200.00 US to get a full 105 w/carbon seat post over a Tiagra FD 105 RD & alu seatpost?

I would but that's just me. Actually I recently spent an extra 400-500 for ultegra and some other miscellaneous bells and whistles.

I wouldn't claim that my money was justifiably spent speaking strictly in terms of value (i.e., an extra 10-20% of the bike cost vs. an arguably much smaller gain in performance/ reliability/ weight shaving/ etc). I will say that as someone who has always had a somewhat 'emotional' attachment to my bikes, I have definitely gotten my money's worth! I think it comes to whether you will be happy you spent the extra 200 bucks later on...and that only you can answer. A friend just enthusiastically bought a cordless drill for almost 400 clams, I have one that cost under $100 is just as good (for what I will use it for)! Same same.

 

[meehs]

Originally posted by boudreaux
Not my Nickel,but the bling value of that CF post is priceless for some.

True. I needed to buy a new post for my road bike and I ended-up buying a carbon one. I admit that it was strictly for the "bling".

 

[mattp71]

Well, having owned a full ultegra drivetrain and a full 105 drivetrain, the guy who said there is not much difference in the shifting is wrong.

Ultegra shifts a lot better than 105. So much better it's like comparing a corvette to a ferrari. Ultegra needs much less tinkering to keep it operating properly, after the initial cable stretching period of around 100 miles.

However for your needs it sounds like a full 105 bike is just fine. Ultegra shifts more precisely under pressure (Such as attacking on a climb, etc.). You attack and shift a 105 under pressure it will probably skip and you will all of the sudden know what 'dropping your chain is'.

Good luck though. Have you looked at the possibility of a cyclocross bike?

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mattp71
You attack and shift a 105 under pressure it will probably skip and you will all of the sudden know what 'dropping your chain is'.

BS. Acording to the resident expert,that's what Tiagra does.Can't happen with 105.

 

[tacomee]

Racing is pretty much personal ability, not drivetrain upgrades. There isn't 10 guys reading this post who are good enough cyclists to push 105 parts to there outer limits.

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by boudreaux
BS. Acording to the resident expert,that's what Tiagra does.Can't happen with 105.

So first you accuse me of talking BS, and then when you want to accuse someone else of talking BS, you use my statements to back you up?! Dude, you clearly just want to pick a fight. For the record, I never said Tiagra always does it and that 105 never does it. I said that Tiagra is more likely to do it, i.e., they can both do it, but all other things being equal, it's more likely to happen with Tiagra. This really is not hard to understand.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
So first you accuse me of talking BS, and then when you want to accuse someone else of talking BS, you use my statements to back you up?! Dude, you clearly just want to pick a fight. For the record, I never said Tiagra always does it and that 105 never does it. I said that Tiagra is more likely to do it, i.e., they can both do it, but all other things being equal, it's more likely to happen with Tiagra. This really is not hard to understand.

Now you are backpedaling. Can't you just make up one story and stick with it or do you make up so much sheet,that you can't keep it straight?

 

[mjw_byrne]

Originally posted by boudreaux
Now you are backpedaling. Can't you just make up one story and stick with it or do you make up so much sheet,that you can't keep it straight?

Dude read the thread again, I have only one "story", I have not backpedaled, I am being totally consistent. Otherwise, show me something I've said which doesn't fit with everything else I've said. Or, even better, stop filling this thread with rubbish and get back on topic.