Need advice on wheels - rims

[Chuck Anderson]

I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.

I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped. My last set of rims
lasted over ten years - and through 1,000's of miles of loaded touring
(the best kind .... hic º). The rear rim already also has a mild flat
spot, too. It's enough to make my rear brake grab hard in one spot so it
pulses, in a manner of speaking, and feels like it wants to lock up on
me. The effect is very pronounced when I am going slow. I'm not happy
about that, either, as I've not abused these rims nearly as much as I
had in all the years past with my old ones - original equipment on an
Bridgestone MB3 - not sure what they were). I wouldn't have even noticed
the brake surface wear if it weren't for the effect that flat spot
(mildly misshapen is a better term) has on my braking. It's very
unnerving on a fast descent.

In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
be the cause. (I ride an MTB setup like a hybrid bike and I'm talking
about mountain road riding. Sometimes it's on dirt, but the vast
majority is on paved road.)

I flatted a couple of weeks ago and I think that may be the when the
pulsing brake symptom started, although I've flatted many times (as much
as anyone) without doing rim damage.

So, I'm not sure where to go.

Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)

I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
it to get ceramic coated rims?

Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
rear hub.)

I'd appreciate any insight to help in my decision making process.

Thanks,

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Chuck Anderson wrote:

> I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
> rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
> I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.
>
> I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
> the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped. My last set of rims
> lasted over ten years - and through 1,000's of miles of loaded touring
> (the best kind .... hic º). The rear rim already also has a mild flat
> spot, too. It's enough to make my rear brake grab hard in one spot so it
> pulses, in a manner of speaking, and feels like it wants to lock up on
> me. The effect is very pronounced when I am going slow. I'm not happy
> about that, either, as I've not abused these rims nearly as much as I
> had in all the years past with my old ones - original equipment on an
> Bridgestone MB3 - not sure what they were). I wouldn't have even noticed
> the brake surface wear if it weren't for the effect that flat spot
> (mildly misshapen is a better term) has on my braking. It's very
> unnerving on a fast descent.
>
> In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
> substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
> be the cause. (I ride an MTB setup like a hybrid bike and I'm talking
> about mountain road riding. Sometimes it's on dirt, but the vast
> majority is on paved road.)
>
> I flatted a couple of weeks ago and I think that may be the when the
> pulsing brake symptom started, although I've flatted many times (as much
> as anyone) without doing rim damage.
>
> So, I'm not sure where to go.
>
> Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
> seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)

No, they're death traps in the wet.

> I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
> Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
> braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
> experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
> it to get ceramic coated rims?

For most people, no, but if you ride on very gritty roads you might be
in the target market. If you don't pretzel them then they could save
the cost of a few rebuilds as well as new rims.

> Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
> pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
> new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
> built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
> been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
> rear hub.)

I hope that includes the price of the rims! Yes, the hubs will be fine,
but make sure the wheelbuilder uses the same lacing pattern because the
hub flanges will be notched in that way. The safest technique is to
tape the new rim to the old rim and move a spoke at a time (replacing it
with one of different length if necessary).

 

[jim beam]

Chuck Anderson wrote:
> I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
> rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
> I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.
>
> I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
> the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped. My last set of rims
> lasted over ten years - and through 1,000's of miles of loaded touring
> (the best kind .... hic º). The rear rim already also has a mild flat
> spot, too. It's enough to make my rear brake grab hard in one spot so it
> pulses, in a manner of speaking, and feels like it wants to lock up on
> me. The effect is very pronounced when I am going slow. I'm not happy
> about that, either, as I've not abused these rims nearly as much as I
> had in all the years past with my old ones - original equipment on an
> Bridgestone MB3 - not sure what they were). I wouldn't have even noticed
> the brake surface wear if it weren't for the effect that flat spot
> (mildly misshapen is a better term) has on my braking. It's very
> unnerving on a fast descent.
>
> In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
> substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
> be the cause. (I ride an MTB setup like a hybrid bike and I'm talking
> about mountain road riding. Sometimes it's on dirt, but the vast
> majority is on paved road.)
>
> I flatted a couple of weeks ago and I think that may be the when the
> pulsing brake symptom started, although I've flatted many times (as much
> as anyone) without doing rim damage.
>
> So, I'm not sure where to go.
>
> Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
> seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)
>
> I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
> Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
> braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
> experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
> it to get ceramic coated rims?
>
> Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
> pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
> new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
> built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
> been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
> rear hub.)
>
> I'd appreciate any insight to help in my decision making process.
>
> Thanks,
>

the ceramics are great rims. very long lasting, great in the wet. make
sure the builder does not exceed the mavic spoke tension spec.

regarding your old rims, take the tire & rim tape off and look for
cracking. i've seen rims with exactly the symptoms you describe caused
by the inner bridging section of the rim cracking circumferentially, so
the rim edges were spread slightly. very grabby braking!

 

[daveornee]

I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.

I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped. My last set of rims
lasted over ten years - and through 1,000's of miles of loaded touring
(the best kind .... hic º). The rear rim already also has a mild flat
spot, too. It's enough to make my rear brake grab hard in one spot so it
pulses, in a manner of speaking, and feels like it wants to lock up on
me. The effect is very pronounced when I am going slow. I'm not happy
about that, either, as I've not abused these rims nearly as much as I
had in all the years past with my old ones - original equipment on an
Bridgestone MB3 - not sure what they were). I wouldn't have even noticed
the brake surface wear if it weren't for the effect that flat spot
(mildly misshapen is a better term) has on my braking. It's very
unnerving on a fast descent.

In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
be the cause. (I ride an MTB setup like a hybrid bike and I'm talking
about mountain road riding. Sometimes it's on dirt, but the vast
majority is on paved road.)

I flatted a couple of weeks ago and I think that may be the when the
pulsing brake symptom started, although I've flatted many times (as much
as anyone) without doing rim damage.

So, I'm not sure where to go.

Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)

I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
it to get ceramic coated rims?

Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
rear hub.)

I'd appreciate any insight to help in my decision making process.

Thanks,

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************

I suggest you look into Velocity Synergy rims, with the rear in asymetric drilling. They have 23 mm wide body with single eyelets. The asymetry doesn't deal with your braking surface issue, but I have found them to hold up well with KoolStop Salmon color brake pads. My 26" wheeled touring bicycle has 28,000 miles of loaded touring on it. 19,000 miles of that have been on 2 sets of Velocity Synergy rims.
I have used Mavic ceramic coated rims with mixed results; some lasting a long time and others cracking after 1,200 miles. Mavic wouldn't replace the cracked rims, so I ate the cost and the taste of that makes me steer clear of them.
You can get a wide range of reviews on rims from MTB Review:

<http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/rim/>

Unfortunately, not all rims are reviewed and some reviews are questionable.

 

[Peter Cole]

"Chuck Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:tjUad.248042$3l3.151871@attbi_s03...
> I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
> rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
> I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.
>
> I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
> the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped.
>
> In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
> substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
> be the cause.

> Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
> seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)


No, steel rims don't brake well in wet conditions.


> I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
> Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
> braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
> experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
> it to get ceramic coated rims?

They do prevent rim wear, but don't brake as well due to pad glazing
problems, even with ceramic-specific pads. They also can become damaged if
a rock chips some of the coating off.

Rim wear is mostly from abrasive grit. Soft brake pads are prone to getting
grit embedded in them during wet rides, that grit will wear rim sidewalls
rapidly. The best solution to this is to use pads made from a hard
compound. The best choice is the KoolStop salmon colored pads.

> Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
> pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
> new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
> built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
> been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
> rear hub.)

It's not hard to swap rims yourself. If you tape the new rim to the old,
you can transfer spokes one at a time. You want to find a rim with the same
"effective rim diameter" as your old one so the spokes will be the right
length. If you buy a pre-built rim, make sure that it is tensioned and
stress-relieved by someone who knows what they're doing (or learn to do it
yourself), otherwise you'll be setting yourself up for problems with loose
and/or breaking spokes down the road.

 

[Chuck Anderson]

I just want to thank everyone for their responses. You've given me
valuable, useful information. I haven't taken my tire off and looked
under the rim tape yet, but I'm willing to bet that I'm going to find
the "Mavic rim crack" where my supposed "flat spot" is. Seems the 517s
have had that problem.

It doesn't sound like I need ceramic coated rims. I ride in the
mountains a lot, but mostly on paved road, so I'm not really riding in
especially gritty conditions I think I'll just find another brand of
rim (my first set were Ritchey Vantage and they lasted a very long time).

As to brake wear, it's obvious. Based on this thread and another, I'm
going to give Kool Stop Salmon brake pads a try. I'll see if using
those don't give me better all around performance.

Thank you for your input.

Chuck


I wrote:

>I don't usually visit this newsgroup, so I posted first to
>rec.bicycles.rides when I should have cross-posted this, .... sorry, but
>I would like to try and get some advice about wheels.
>
>I bought some Mavic 517 (now 717) wheels about a year and a half ago and
>the rims (braking surfaces) are already cupped. My last set of rims
>lasted over ten years - and through 1,000's of miles of loaded touring
>(the best kind .... hic º). The rear rim already also has a mild flat
>spot, too. It's enough to make my rear brake grab hard in one spot so it
>pulses, in a manner of speaking, and feels like it wants to lock up on
>me. The effect is very pronounced when I am going slow. I'm not happy
>about that, either, as I've not abused these rims nearly as much as I
>had in all the years past with my old ones - original equipment on an
>Bridgestone MB3 - not sure what they were). I wouldn't have even noticed
>the brake surface wear if it weren't for the effect that flat spot
>(mildly misshapen is a better term) has on my braking. It's very
>unnerving on a fast descent.
>
>In the last year I have increased the amount of mountain riding I do
>substantially. In fact, it's pretty much all I do, so I guess that could
>be the cause. (I ride an MTB setup like a hybrid bike and I'm talking
>about mountain road riding. Sometimes it's on dirt, but the vast
>majority is on paved road.)
>
>I flatted a couple of weeks ago and I think that may be the when the
>pulsing brake symptom started, although I've flatted many times (as much
>as anyone) without doing rim damage.
>
>So, I'm not sure where to go.
>
>Should I get some cheap, heavy, steel rims? (I don't think so, but it
>seems like an alternative. I'm not a light weight gear fanatic.)
>
>I've been informed about ceramic coated rims and am considering the
>Mavic 717's with ceramic. Is the ceramic really going to make the
>braking surface of the rim last substantially longer? Does anyone have
>experience or knowledge on this? That's my biggest question. Is it worth
>it to get ceramic coated rims?
>
>Any suggestions on good, moderately priced wheels? Last time I bought
>pre-built for the price (cheaper). Since my current Mavics have fairly
>new Deore XT hubs, I am going to keep them and have this new wheel hand
>built (I think). If I get ceramic, I don't think I have a choice. (I've
>been quoted $170 to have the Mavic ceramics hand built with my existing
>rear hub.)
>
>I'd appreciate any insight to help in my decision making process.
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>

--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************