Need Training Suggestion

[teetopkram]

Greetings all - I have been riding off and, on, about 3K miles per year or so, for the past 3-4 years. Occasional races. Age = 41. This year I have been training regularly since about March, averaging about 500-600 miles per month. Racing regularly, Category 4. Most training to date has been base/LSD and tempo rides when I'm alone, hard group rides on the weekend. Within the past 6-8 weeks have started doing 3-5 minute intervals and occasional sprints.

Anyway, on the weekend group rides with my club, I am able to keep up with the Cat 2s doing the 28-30 MPH pacelines, doing some pulls, sprinting out of corners, and chasing down some gaps at 32+ MPH. However, I can only keep this up for about 30-40 minutes...then I pretty much blow, riding tempo on my own for the rest of the ride as legs just shut down. I can't keep it up for the 2 hours or so that the higher racers can.

So, it appears I need more "power endurance" for lack of a better word...being able to keep that tempo longer without blowing. Anyone have any recs for workouts to develop this? Is it more tempo riding at 80% Max HR? Longer base rides? Is it just increasing the number of intervals I'm doing? Is it just time in the saddle (i.e., will it just come with more years of riding)?

By the way, I train with HR and don't have any power equipment.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Piotr]

Greetings all - I have been riding off and, on, about 3K miles per year or so, for the past 3-4 years. Occasional races. Age = 41. This year I have been training regularly since about March, averaging about 500-600 miles per month. Racing regularly, Category 4. Most training to date has been base/LSD and tempo rides when I'm alone, hard group rides on the weekend. Within the past 6-8 weeks have started doing 3-5 minute intervals and occasional sprints.

Anyway, on the weekend group rides with my club, I am able to keep up with the Cat 2s doing the 28-30 MPH pacelines, doing some pulls, sprinting out of corners, and chasing down some gaps at 32+ MPH. However, I can only keep this up for about 30-40 minutes...then I pretty much blow, riding tempo on my own for the rest of the ride as legs just shut down. I can't keep it up for the 2 hours or so that the higher racers can.

So, it appears I need more "power endurance" for lack of a better word...being able to keep that tempo longer without blowing. Anyone have any recs for workouts to develop this? Is it more tempo riding at 80% Max HR? Longer base rides? Is it just increasing the number of intervals I'm doing? Is it just time in the saddle (i.e., will it just come with more years of riding)?

By the way, I train with HR and don't have any power equipment.

Thanks for any input.

The reason those experienced guys can do it longer is because their Functional Threshold Power is higher than yours. Increase your FTP, so you don't have to go quite as deep with every pull. You're likely producing power anaerobically (rather than aerobically) to take those hard pull, chase, etc. until you run out of matches to burn. By contrast, those Cat. 2's don't go as deep as you do and have plenty in reserve, which allows them to keep doing it longer. Some of them use fewer matches, while the strongest don't even use their matchbook - they produce all that power aerobically.

Here's some search keywords to use: increasing FTP, Sweet Spot Training (SST), 2 x 20, L4 training. There's plenty of good reading right here. Even without a power meter you should be able to put the gained insight to good use.

 

[swampy1970]

Greetings all - I have been riding off and, on, about 3K miles per year or so, for the past 3-4 years. Occasional races. Age = 41. This year I have been training regularly since about March, averaging about 500-600 miles per month. Racing regularly, Category 4. Most training to date has been base/LSD and tempo rides when I'm alone, hard group rides on the weekend. Within the past 6-8 weeks have started doing 3-5 minute intervals and occasional sprints.

Anyway, on the weekend group rides with my club, I am able to keep up with the Cat 2s doing the 28-30 MPH pacelines, doing some pulls, sprinting out of corners, and chasing down some gaps at 32+ MPH. However, I can only keep this up for about 30-40 minutes...then I pretty much blow, riding tempo on my own for the rest of the ride as legs just shut down. I can't keep it up for the 2 hours or so that the higher racers can.

So, it appears I need more "power endurance" for lack of a better word...being able to keep that tempo longer without blowing. Anyone have any recs for workouts to develop this? Is it more tempo riding at 80% Max HR? Longer base rides? Is it just increasing the number of intervals I'm doing? Is it just time in the saddle (i.e., will it just come with more years of riding)?

By the way, I train with HR and don't have any power equipment.

Thanks for any input.

On the group rides try not doing to much when you're asked to do 32+mph to close down gaps. Cut your "pull" down to half of what you're doing and pull over and let someone else deal with it... It's probably these efforts that are killing you slowly.

But unless you're having problems with riding over a few hours I'd skip the long rides and concentrate on a few really hard 20 minute intervals. Personally, I dig 25 minute efforts with 5 minute rests as it's easier to track time for a brain dead zombie like me...

Hard 2 hour tempo rides at 75 to 80% of max will help too but I'd do those when the weather is on the cooler side if you live somewhere that regularly over 90F

 

[upstateSC-rider]

On top of the excellent responses above, try not getting down on yourself too much when comparing yourself to others in the higher categories. Sounds like you're riding strongly at your own level...When it comes down to it, it's how well you are doing in your races.

 

[teetopkram]

Thanks for all the replies. I have googled and read several articles-webpages on the above terms and it was very informative. Understandably, most of the work was done based on power. All I know right now is my maxHR (gathered from multiple races) of 188 BPM. I don't know my LTHR, as I haven't done a 1 hour (or even 20 minute) max effort during training (and likely won't in the next couple of weeks due to races coming up).

Still, based on what I read, it seems that a very general guide for a targeted heart rate zone for sweet spot or FTP increasing training is about 80-90% of MaxHR. Done in 20 minute or 10 minute intervals with 5-10 rest in between. Does this sound about right?

 

[Piotr]

Thanks for all the replies. I have googled and read several articles-webpages on the above terms and it was very informative. Understandably, most of the work was done based on power. All I know right now is my maxHR (gathered from multiple races) of 188 BPM. I don't know my LTHR, as I haven't done a 1 hour (or even 20 minute) max effort during training (and likely won't in the next couple of weeks due to races coming up).

Still, based on what I read, it seems that a very general guide for a targeted heart rate zone for sweet spot or FTP increasing training is about 80-90% of MaxHR. Done in 20 minute or 10 minute intervals with 5-10 rest in between. Does this sound about right?

I would say 20 minutes minimum. My SST sessions generally consist of continuous 1 hr of riding at an average of 90-95% FTP. 2 x 20 min at 95-100 FTP is the bread and butter of most time-limited riders. It can be extended to 3 x 20 min or 2 x 30 min (generally no more than 5 min rests). What allows me to complete 1 hr (or more) is starting out a bit easier and gradually increasing intensity until I'm at my FTP for the last 10 minutes.