Negative effects of OT & flaming

[Robert Haston]

I 've watched as rec.bicycles.soc slowly shrunk, while alt.recumbents grew.

Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly the
#1 complaint was about endless flame wars. Interestingly, these were far more on topic (helmet laws,
etc.) or at least close (mountain bike social issues) than what clogs up this NG.

Are there historical records of the number of postings? The hard part would be to track the
percentage of OT posts.

--
Robert Haston Satellite Beach, FL

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:16 GMT, "Robert Haston"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly the
>#1 complaint was about endless flame wars.

.soc's single and abiding problem is one M Vandemann.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

 

[Mikael Seierup]

Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think
about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to
live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

What does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with
this case! It does not make sense!

None of this makes sense.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

 

[Andrew Douglas]

In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Haston <[email protected]> wrote:

> I 've watched as rec.bicycles.soc slowly shrunk, while alt.recumbents grew.
>
> Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly the
> #1 complaint was about endless flame wars.
>

I agree. This group has gone from valuable resource to "why bother?" simply because of the OT and
nasty postings. At least we have good alternative outlets that are actually about recumbents and
which actually show some semblance of civility.

I used to be a regular poster here and had a lot of worthwhile exchanges. Now I check it once in a
while, then move on. I think there are a lot of people like that.

 

[Edward Dolan]

Andrew Douglas <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<020220040756046735%[email protected]>...

> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Haston
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I 've watched as rec.bicycles.soc slowly shrunk, while alt.recumbents grew.
> >
> > Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly
> > the #1 complaint was about endless flame wars.
> >
>
> I agree. This group has gone from valuable resource to "why bother?" simply because of the OT and
> nasty postings. At least we have good alternative outlets that are actually about recumbents and
> which actually show some semblance of civility.

Hmmm! What are those alternative outlets Andrew? I could maybe come over and enliven things up a bit
if they are as boring as ARBR used to be before I showed up. Especially, let me know if you think
there are too many liberal rants on these other alternative outlets and I will be there in a jiffy
to make it fair and balanced - whether they want it to be that way or not. I am a sort of paladin
and there will be a minimum charge for my services.

> I used to be a regular poster here and had a lot of worthwhile exchanges. Now I check it once in a
> while, then move on. I think there are a lot of people like that.

There is a constant changing of the guard on all newsgroups. Anyone who hangs around too long,
including yours truly, makes a nuisance of himself and becomes a pest. It works like that everywhere
because human nature is a constant everywhere. Have you not heard that most marriages end in divorce
these days. That is because you do not have to stay married anymore like when I was a kid. Nope, now
we are all into doing our own thing even if it is disgusting and revolting.

Gee, Andrew, we hardly knew ya!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:16 GMT, "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly
> >the #1 complaint was about endless flame wars.
>
> .soc's single and abiding problem is one M Vandemann.
>
> Guy

This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it turned out we agreed with one
another (highly unlikely as I tend not to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe entirely
take over a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails. But if he is as
flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would have a conflagration on our hands and burn the
post office to the ground. But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is no sloucher in the
venom department himself.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it turned out we agreed with one
> another (highly unlikely as I tend not to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe
> entirely take over a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails. But if he
> is as flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would have a conflagration on our hands and burn
> the post office to the ground. But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is no sloucher
> in the venom department himself.

M*k* V*nd*m*n is boringly predictable. Any post by him on rec.bicycles.soc is either a rant about
the destruction caused by mountain biking or personal flames (in a rather uncreative manner) of
anyone who disagrees with him.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

 

[Freewheeling]

Robert:

I'm not sure it would matter if it were confined to discreet threads, but it appears that for every
OT thread there are six threads complaining about it. Interesting social phenomenon.

I'm not sure usenet is all that stable anyway. But the primary OT thread (the one I started, which
wasn't really OT to begin with, just swept-under-the-rug) has absolutely ZERO cross posts. Frankly,
I don't see what there is to complain about in that. (Granted, it's about as dead as a doornail at
the moment, with trading oscure comments about posting protocol between Ed and Mr. Sherman.) Guns
and bicycles, that's what I'm into. And rowing, of course. And foreign policy. Did I mention
pancakes? How about pasta? The Atkins (bread is an evil capitalist plot) Diet?

--
--Scott
"Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I 've watched as rec.bicycles.soc slowly shrunk, while alt.recumbents
grew.
>
> Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause
> dwindling; but certainly the #1 complaint was about endless flame wars.
> Interestingly, these were far more on topic (helmet laws, etc.) or at
least
> close (mountain bike social issues) than what clogs up this NG.
>
> Are there historical records of the number of postings? The hard part
would
> be to track the percentage of OT posts.
>
> --
> Robert Haston
> Satellite Beach, FL

 

[Freewheeling]

Mikael:

"Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee -
want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!"

Basically the same logic that makes elevators smell different to midgets, except in reverse.

--
--Scott
"Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on
the planet Endor. Now, think
> about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot
tall Wookiee - want to
> live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make
sense!
>
> What does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen,
it has nothing to do with
> this case! It does not make sense!
>
> None of this makes sense.
>
> If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Robert:
>
> I'm not sure it would matter if it were confined to discreet threads, but it appears that for
> every OT thread there are six threads complaining about it. Interesting social phenomenon.
>
> I'm not sure usenet is all that stable anyway. But the primary OT thread (the one I started, which
> wasn't really OT to begin with, just swept-under-the-rug) has absolutely ZERO cross posts.
> Frankly, I don't see what there is to complain about in that. (Granted, it's about as dead as a
> doornail at the moment, with trading oscure comments about posting protocol between Ed and Mr.
> Sherman.)

Freewheeling, I hate any kind of cross posting and I will never get myself involved in any of it. It
is always a mess. Thankfully, we do not have much of that here.

Mr. Sherman and I are not into it over how to post. Most everything I know about posting I learned
from copying him. I consider Mr. Sherman to be the resident expert here on how to post to this
newsgroup (although we do have those disagreements over the use of footnotes). My argument is
with this idiot "watsonglenn" who of course knows how he should be posting but deliberately
defies the conventions of this newsgroup because most likely he is some kind of snotty smart ass
kid. We all know the type. They exist on all the other newsgroups and chat rooms and bulletin
boards and make all of Usenet relatively worthless as a means of communication.

Your post (Boy, are you going to hate this) died a long time ago and there is nothing going on there
now but a mopping up operation. That is in fact how many threads end on this newsgroup and that may
have something to do with me I must admit. But sooner or later someone will tick me off to the point
where I won't let go and so the thread degenerates to a name calling contest. I am always assuming
that all the intelligent types have long since left that particular thread and have moved on to
greener pastures. Almost any thread that goes on for more than about 10 messages gets off track and
if it goes on at great length it will not only become OT but it will become most unpleasant for
anyone foolish enough to stick around that long.

It is wise to know when to leave a thread.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Robert:
>
> I'm not sure it would matter if it were confined to discreet threads, but it appears that for
> every OT thread there are six threads complaining about it. Interesting social phenomenon.
>
> I'm not sure usenet is all that stable anyway. But the primary OT thread (the one I started, which
> wasn't really OT to begin with, just swept-under-the-rug) has absolutely ZERO cross posts.
> Frankly, I don't see what there is to complain about in that. (Granted, it's about as dead as a
> doornail at the moment, with trading oscure comments about posting protocol between Ed and Mr.
> Sherman.)

Freewheeling, I hate any kind of cross posting and I will never get myself involved in any of it. It
is always a mess. Thankfully, we do not have much of that here.

Mr. Sherman and I are not into it over how to post. Most everything I know about posting I learned
from copying him. I consider Mr. Sherman to be the resident expert here on how to post to this
newsgroup (although we do have those disagreements over the use of footnotes). My argument is
with this idiot "watsonglenn" who of course knows how he should be posting but deliberately
defies the conventions of this newsgroup because most likely he is some kind of snotty smart ass
kid. We all know the type. They exist on all the other newsgroups and chat rooms and bulletin
boards and make all of Usenet relatively worthless as a means of communication.

Your post (Boy, are you going to hate this) died a long time ago and there is nothing going on there
now but a mopping up operation. That is in fact how many threads end on this newsgroup and that may
have something to do with me I must admit. But sooner or later someone will tick me off to the point
where I won't let go and so the thread degenerates to a name calling contest. I am always assuming
that all the intelligent types have long since left that particular thread and have moved on to
greener pastures. Almost any thread that goes on for more than about 10 messages gets off track and
if it goes on at great length it will not only become OT but it will become most unpleasant for
anyone foolish enough to stick around that long.

It is wise to know when to leave a thread.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... [...]

Sorry about the double posting. Every now and then my Google posting becomes all messed up. I just
don't know what is happening. As a former college librarian I value neatness and proper form above
all else. So I am mortified when I screw up, although I blame it all on Google. Truth be told, I do
not have any understanding of how these computers work at all. Sometimes I think maybe I should get
myself a newsreader. I do notice some are posting via Cycling Forums. I wonder if this is more
reliable than the Google posting?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Perry Butler]

"The trouble with computers is they do exactly what you tell them to do."

This poster exists in our computer lab to inform students are responsible for their own actions.

Perry B - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [...]
>
> Sorry about the double posting. Every now and then my Google posting becomes all messed up. I just
> don't know what is happening. As a former college librarian I value neatness and proper form above
> all else. So I am mortified when I screw up, although I blame it all on Google. Truth be told, I
> do not have any understanding of how these computers work at all. Sometimes I think maybe I should
> get myself a newsreader. I do notice some are posting via Cycling Forums. I wonder if this is more
> reliable than the Google posting?
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Perry Butler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> "The trouble with computers is they do exactly what you tell them to do."
>
> This poster exists in our computer lab to inform students are responsible for their own actions.

No, my computer when it comes to Google posting does not always do exactly what I tell it to do.
After I have written my message, I send it and occasionally everything just freezes. Why is that I
wonder? Then I wait a bit and send it again, and I may or may not end up posting the same message
twice. I blame it all on gremlins.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 05:49:25 GMT, "Perry Butler"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"The trouble with computers is they do exactly what you tell them to do."

This new computer's no damn good, I think they ought to sell it. It never does quite what it should,
But only what I tell it.

 

[Joseph Kochanow]

[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:16 GMT, "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Maybe .soc's demise was just the effects of cycling as a social cause dwindling; but certainly
> > >the #1 complaint was about endless flame wars.
> >
> > .soc's single and abiding problem is one M Vandemann.
> >
> > Guy
>
> This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it turned out we agreed with one
> another (highly unlikely as I tend not to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe
> entirely take over a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails. But if he
> is as flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would have a conflagration on our hands and burn
> the post office to the ground. But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is no sloucher
> in the venom department himself.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
Ed, I am surprised that you have never seen the mess that this V*nd*m*n guy has made on the
mountain bike and soc. newsgroup. I would certainly enjoy reading a flame war between him and
you. He seems to be an environmentalist who believes that all humans should be eliminated from
planet earth so that the wilderness can be preserved.He makes Tom Sherman look like a right wing
conservative extremist. Since those newsgroups are already wrecked by his flaming, you would
only make things better there.

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (Joseph Kochanowski) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
[...]

> > This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it turned out we agreed with one
> > another (highly unlikely as I tend not to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe
> > entirely take over a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails. But if
> > he is as flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would have a conflagration on our hands and
> > burn the post office to the ground. But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is no
> > sloucher in the venom department himself.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

> Ed, I am surprised that you have never seen the mess that this V*nd*m*n guy has made on the
> mountain bike and soc. newsgroup. I would certainly enjoy reading a flame war between him and
> you. He seems to be an environmentalist who believes that all humans should be eliminated from
> planet earth so that the wilderness can be preserved.He makes Tom Sherman look like a right
> wing conservative extremist. Since those newsgroups are already wrecked by his flaming, you
> would only make things better there.

Joseph, I am fairly new to the computer and newsgroups and so I do not know about this V*nd*m*n
character. I am an extreme environmentalist myself so it is possible that he and I would agree with
one another. However, we pigheaded and stubborn individuals will get into it with one another
despite our agreements. I actually get along better with liberals even though I take issue with
them. We conservatives are deadly with one another. But I suppose an extreme environmentalist could
be classified as a liberal. I have never understood why conservatives are not more defensive of the
environment. We come from the earth and we shall surely return to it. Dust to dust you know.

But I have found a home here on ARBR. This group is like me - more or less sane and civilized. Even
though I lambaste everyone from time to time I do respect the intelligence and maturity of everyone
here. I feel privileged to be a part of this group.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Joseph Kochanow]

[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Joseph Kochanowski) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> [...]
>
> > > This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it turned out we agreed with
> > > one another (highly unlikely as I tend not to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe
> > > entirely take over a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails. But if
> > > he is as flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would have a conflagration on our hands
> > > and burn the post office to the ground. But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is
> > > no sloucher in the venom department himself.
> > >
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> > Ed, I am surprised that you have never seen the mess that this V*nd*m*n guy has made on the
> > mountain bike and soc. newsgroup. I would certainly enjoy reading a flame war between him
> > and you. He seems to be an environmentalist who believes that all humans should be
> > eliminated from planet earth so that the wilderness can be preserved.He makes Tom Sherman
> > look like a right wing conservative extremist. Since those newsgroups are already wrecked by
> > his flaming, you would only make things better there.
>
> Joseph, I am fairly new to the computer and newsgroups and so I do not know about this V*nd*m*n
> character. I am an extreme environmentalist myself so it is possible that he and I would agree
> with one another. However, we pigheaded and stubborn individuals will get into it with one
> another despite our agreements. I actually get along better with liberals even though I take
> issue with them. We conservatives are deadly with one another. But I suppose an extreme
> environmentalist could be classified as a liberal. I have never understood why conservatives are
> not more defensive of the environment. We come from the earth and we shall surely return to it.
> Dust to dust you know.
>
> But I have found a home here on ARBR. This group is like me - more or less sane and civilized.
> Even though I lambaste everyone from time to time I do respect the intelligence and maturity of
> everyone here. I feel privileged to be a part of this group.
>
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I do not think you would find any exchange with the V*nd*m*n character useful since he seems to be
so far out on a limb that there is no chance to have a logical discussion with him. He has a lot of
complaining about everything but no solutions to offer. He has a list of companies to boycott that
include mountain bike retailers and electric vehicles but no answers on how to conserve the
environment. This is what I find suspicious about his motives. He is not interested in getting
anyone to ride their bikes instead of driving their cars.I am interested in solutions to bike
problems that I can do something about. A lot of conservatives are good at complaining about
liberals but few actually show what is good about being a conservative or capitalist. I enjoy
finding my own solutions to problems like getting better lights for night riding, better weather
protection and faster speed that I can easily implement and show to anyone else. I will not learn
better fabrication techniques from someone like M*k* V*nd*m*n. He would be happy with humans only
living in a prison Gulag with strict control by elitists like him. My big complaint is that a lot of
bike riders I know would like to live in that Gulag.

 

[Freewheeling]

"A lot of conservatives are good at complaining about liberals but few actually show what is good
about being a conservative or capitalist."

Huh? Check out the Public Choice School of Economics at George Mason University, for starters. Or
the University of Chicago. On the other had the "School of Heads in the Sand" would simply hold that
anything they don't listen to, was never said.

Sorry, that was just too much to let pass.

--
--Scott
"Joseph Kochanowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Joseph Kochanowski) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > [...]
> >
> > > > This Vandemann guy sounds like someone I should get to know. If it
> > > > turned out we agreed with one another (highly unlikely as I tend not
> > > > to agree with anyone about anything) we could maybe entirely take
over
> > > > a newsgroup and turn it into our own private post office for emails.
> > > > But if he is as flammable as I am, it is far more likely we would
have
> > > > a conflagration on our hands and burn the post office to the ground.
> > > > But, just for the record, "Just zis Guy, you know" is no sloucher in
> > > > the venom department himself.
> > > >
> > > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> > > Ed, I am surprised that you have never seen the mess that this
> > > V*nd*m*n guy has made on the mountain bike and soc. newsgroup. I would
> > > certainly enjoy reading a flame war between him and you. He seems to
> > > be an environmentalist who believes that all humans should be
> > > eliminated from planet earth so that the wilderness can be
> > > preserved.He makes Tom Sherman look like a right wing conservative
> > > extremist. Since those newsgroups are already wrecked by his flaming,
> > > you would only make things better there.
> >
> > Joseph, I am fairly new to the computer and newsgroups and so I do not
> > know about this V*nd*m*n character. I am an extreme environmentalist
> > myself so it is possible that he and I would agree with one another.
> > However, we pigheaded and stubborn individuals will get into it with
> > one another despite our agreements. I actually get along better with
> > liberals even though I take issue with them. We conservatives are
> > deadly with one another. But I suppose an extreme environmentalist
> > could be classified as a liberal. I have never understood why
> > conservatives are not more defensive of the environment. We come from
> > the earth and we shall surely return to it. Dust to dust you know.
> >
> > But I have found a home here on ARBR. This group is like me - more or
> > less sane and civilized. Even though I lambaste everyone from time to
> > time I do respect the intelligence and maturity of everyone here. I
> > feel privileged to be a part of this group.
> >
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I do not think you would find any exchange with the V*nd*m*n character
> useful since he seems to be so far out on a limb that there is no
> chance to have a logical discussion with him. He has a lot of
> complaining about everything but no solutions to offer. He has a list
> of companies to boycott that include mountain bike retailers and
> electric vehicles but no answers on how to conserve the environment.
> This is what I find suspicious about his motives. He is not interested
> in getting anyone to ride their bikes instead of driving their cars.I
> am interested in solutions to bike problems that I can do something
> about. A lot of conservatives are good at complaining about liberals
> but few actually show what is good about being a conservative or
> capitalist. I enjoy finding my own solutions to problems like getting
> better lights for night riding, better weather protection and faster
> speed that I can easily implement and show to anyone else. I will not
> learn better fabrication techniques from someone like M*k* V*nd*m*n.
> He would be happy with humans only living in a prison Gulag with
> strict control by elitists like him. My big complaint is that a lot of
> bike riders I know would like to live in that Gulag.

 

[Geob]

> It is wise to know when to leave a thread. Ed Dolan - Minnesota

When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise ---
Proverbs 10:19