Neoprene Overbooties



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I commute to work and back, Oakland, CA -> Pleasant Hill -> Oakland. (~40 miles round trip) I'm
often on my bike at 7AM and 7PM. My commute takes me through wooded canyons and in the morning and
evening in January they are cold as the grave. I only recently got a pearl izumi skull cap for under
my helmet and some thin sidi booties. (pretty much just thick lycra) I wear long-finger cotton
cycling gloves, l/s jersey, undershit, knickers. The booties and skullcap are pretty necessary for
bay area rides this time of year, especially at either end of the day. I am no wimp, and I've got
way too much natural insulation as it is. Neoprene booties would be nice for rain days, but the last
pair I had rubbed on the cranks too much.

I like booties.

Sir Ridealot
 
Carl Fogel wrote:
> Carl Fogel
>
> 10 February 1956, Stanford University Hospitals, Clay and Webster Streets, San Francisco

Let's see... not yet 50 years old, but a retired English teacher. How did you swing that one? Have
you patented the technique?

Dave dvt at psu dot edu
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:47:55 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>It's very hard, on the contrary, to get your feet to overheat, at least in my experience.

Speak for yourself. It's very hard for my feet NOT to be excessively hot and sweaty and swampy --
even with expensive wicking socks and such, I rarely exceed two hours before I'm walking in a swamp.

At least you can wear thicker socks and neoprene overbooties. I'll trade my problem for
yours any day.

Only when my whole body is very chilled do my feet cool down. Otherwise, I walk in snow with
sandals, and my feet don't get cold until I step in unpacked deep snow -- and once I'm indoors, the
feet warm up from that in five minutes.
--
Rick Onanian
 
Christopher Brian Colohan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I was visiting the Bay area of California over New Years, and was quite impressed with the number
> of cyclists out in the Palo Alto area. But one thing struck me as very strange: it was a nice
> sunny 50 degree day (spring jacket weather), and a remarkable number of cyclists were wearing what
> looked like neoprene overbooties.
>
> Why? I had always thought this was a specialized item reserved for cycling on really cold (below
> freezing) days. Are these just fashionable out there, or is there some other benefit I am missing?
> I was somewhat baffled, and am curious about this...
>
> Chris

Methinks you misinterpreted what you saw. I ride in this area 5-6 times a week. I rarely see
neoprene booties, in fact I do not think I have seen anyone wearing any so far this year. I do see a
lot of lycra and other, lighter, non-neoprene shoe covers, and a fair number of toe covers some of
which are neoprene. Over the past few years the only time I have seen many neoprene booties at all
are on days when it is pouring rain. I bought myself a pair of neoprene booties 3 years ago, right
after getting caught in a heavy downpour with mid-30 temps. Have not worn them out since ...

Also, as someone pointed out do not think that your 50 degree temp in PA is/was the environment the
rider experienced. I have left home for my early Tue group ride with temps in the 20's but arrived
back home with temps nearing 50 three hours later. Descending Page Mill, Hwy 9, Hwy 84, etc. with
speeds in the 30-40+ MPH range leads to some considerable wind chill effects, too. And some areas,
specifically Portola Valley, are considerably colder than PA in the mornings. Lots of variables, and
you might not have experienced much of that variability - but I often do as I will ride 25-40 miles
into the hills at the crack of dawn - or earlier ;-)

- rick
 
Originally posted by Steve Juniper
Perhaps some of you aren't familiar with the famous Mark Twain quote: "The coldest I ever was, in my
entire life, was one summer in San Francisco."

i lived on the Peninsula for years and have lived in SF for the past decade. SF is chillier and damper than the Peninsula because of the foothills. climbing up to skyline and over to the coast, you definitely get colder weather.

that said, i will wear neoprene booties if riding in the rain. other chilly weather here, i opt for toe covers and wool socks like smartwool.

oh, and on your quote, from twainquotes.com:
"The coldest winter I ever saw was the summer I spent in San Francisco."
- This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain, but until the attribution can be verified, the quote should not be regarded as authentic.
 
On 21 Jan 2004 06:19:09 -0800, [email protected] (Jeff Starr) wrote:

> Hi, I just bought a pair of new booties that zipper up the front and say "Trek USA" on them. Does
> anybody know the age of these? They aren't like the current Trek models. They came uncut, with
> patterns on the bottom for both Look style and SPD cleats. They seem to be medium weight. I had
> problems last fall, in mid 40s, with my toes getting cold. I tried various sock combinations, but
> I think part of it is that with the rigid sole, your toes don't move around much, limiting
> circulation. I did find that my Shimano SH20 shoes were better than my Pearl Izumi Vortex road
> shoes. With the booties, I'll be able to place a heat pack in, if necessary. So, any info,
> including list price, on these booties? Thank you, Jeff

I know you know you have an older model, but my new model Trek 5mm Neoprene shoe covers are
great. They seem a little warmer to me than my Nike 3mm Neoprene ones. I wear woolie boolie socks
with either.
 
"Jeff Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Christopher Brian Colohan wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I have a pair of those (Gator brand), and I'll wear them when
it's
> > cold and wet. Neoprene's nice in that it still insulates when
wet.
> > But compared to other booties, they're not much warmer.
> >
> > I use a pair of Pearl Izumi fleece booties when it's cool but
dry.
> > (I made the mistake of wearing those this morning, and my
feet got
> > soaked. The forecast said dry -- wrong.)
> >
> Hi, I just bought a pair of new booties that zipper up the
front and
> say "Trek USA" on them. Does anybody know the age of these?
They
> aren't like the current Trek models. They came uncut, with
patterns on
> the bottom for both Look style and SPD cleats. They seem to be
medium
> weight. I had problems last fall, in mid 40s, with my toes getting
cold. I
> tried various sock combinations, but I think part of it is that
with
> the rigid sole, your toes don't move around much, limiting circulation. I did find that my Shimano
> SH20 shoes were better
than my
> Pearl Izumi Vortex road shoes. With the booties, I'll be able
to place
> a heat pack in, if necessary. So, any info, including list price, on these booties? Thank
> you, Jeff

I think these are about five or six years old. I have a pair that I wore about twice and then threw
in a corner where the remain today. They leak like a sieve through the zipper which is located on
the top of the bootie -- the area that gets drenched by rain. Bad design. They are probably O.K. for
keeping your feet warm, but they suck as rain booties. -- Jay Beattie.
 
Rick Onanian wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:47:55 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's very hard, on the contrary, to get your feet to overheat, at least in my experience.
>
>
> Speak for yourself. It's very hard for my feet NOT to be excessively hot and sweaty and swampy
> -- even with expensive wicking socks and such, I rarely exceed two hours before I'm walking in
> a swamp.
>
> At least you can wear thicker socks and neoprene overbooties. I'll trade my problem for yours
> any day.
>
> Only when my whole body is very chilled do my feet cool down. Otherwise, I walk in snow with
> sandals, and my feet don't get cold until I step in unpacked deep snow -- and once I'm indoors,
> the feet warm up from that in five minutes.
> --
> Rick Onanian

You oughta see a doctor about that.

;)

Dave
 
Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:47:55 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> >It's very hard, on the contrary, to get your feet to overheat, at least in my experience.
>
> Speak for yourself. It's very hard for my feet NOT to be excessively hot and sweaty and swampy
> -- even with expensive wicking socks and such, I rarely exceed two hours before I'm walking in
> a swamp.

Neoprene booties have given me thermoregulatory trouble on long rides in 30-40F weather, which I
attribute to their nonbreathable nature. They're great for the first hour, during which time the
footsweat condenses on the interior. After that, conduction and convection conspire to freeze
the feet. I haven't tried other materials, maybe something ligher and/or more breathable would
do better.

JLS
 
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 17:21:01 -0500, dvt <[email protected]> wrote:
>Rick Onanian wrote:
>> Speak for yourself. It's very hard for my feet NOT to be excessively hot and sweaty and swampy
>> -- even with expensive wicking socks and such, I rarely exceed two hours before I'm walking in
>> a swamp.
>
>You oughta see a doctor about that.

I refuse to read this heresy! Common sense shall NOT be used in any message that I read!

>;)

>Dave
--
Rick Onanian
 
"Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> >Maybe California cold is different. This morning's ride was
42F, low
> >visibility fog with drizzle and a fresh breeze. With neoprene booties, GoreTex socks over
> >SmartWool socks, my feet were
barely
> >warm enough descending on Skyline from Kings Mountain to Sky
Londa.
> >The rest of me couldn't stop shivering, so I stopped into
Alice's
> >Restaurant for some coffee. I'm still thawing out.
>
> that's not cold. I can go with regular socks and the neo
booties to keep my feet
> dry in that. a poly tee shirt a cotton long sleeve over that.
without rain that
> would be fine with it my burley raincoat is all. try 35 and
rain (G)

And snow! I have never seen snow on the ground for so long in Portland. Now that the rain has
returned, my commuter looks like a cyclocross bike with all the mud from the "sand" (i.e. rocks and
dirt) that was put down on the roads. I have to leave my booties in the garage because when they dry
off, they drop about a pound of dirt on the floor. -- Jay Beattie.
 
dvt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Carl Fogel wrote:
> > Carl Fogel
> >
> > 10 February 1956, Stanford University Hospitals, Clay and Webster Streets, San Francisco
>
> Let's see... not yet 50 years old, but a retired English teacher. How did you swing that one? Have
> you patented the technique?
>
> Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Dear Dave,

Retired? Nah. I walked away from it in 1986 and have preyed upon helpless medical offices and their
computer billing problems ever since.

If you want to see why, have a look at the current thread "What Bike to Buy," in which well-meaning
"english teacher" on his maiden post did exactly what English teachers do.

Stop me before I grade again!

Carl Fogel
 
Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Steve Juniper wrote:
> > Perhaps some of you aren't familiar with the famous Mark Twain quote: "The coldest I ever
> > was, in my entire life, was one summer in San Francisco."
>
> Neither was Mark Twain, I fear: http://www.twainquotes.com/SanFrancisco.html
>
> Dan

Dear Dan, Steve, and others,

Below is chapter 56 of "Roughing It," which is where he covered California's climate. The cold-
summer quote still seems to be an amiable but mistaken attribution, but it could still pan out--it
wasn't so long ago that an entire lost novella by Twain ("A Murder, a Mystery, and a Marriage"--not
worth reading) was discovered.

Carl Fogel

CHAPTER LVI.

We rumbled over the plains and valleys, climbed the Sierras to the clouds, and looked down upon summer-
clad California. And I will remark here, in passing, that all scenery in California requires
distance to give it its highest charm. The mountains are imposing in their sublimity and their
majesty of form and altitude, from any point of view--but one must have distance to soften their
ruggedness and enrich their tintings; a Californian forest is best at a little distance, for there
is a sad poverty of variety in species, the trees being chiefly of one monotonous family--redwood,
pine, spruce, fir--and so, at a near view there is a wearisome sameness of attitude in their rigid
arms, stretched down ward and outward in one continued and reiterated appeal to all men to "Sh!--
don't say a word!--you might disturb somebody!" Close at hand, too, there is a reliefless and
relentless smell of pitch and turpentine; there is a ceaseless melancholy in their sighing and
complaining foliage; one walks over a soundless carpet of beaten yellow bark and dead spines of the
foliage till he feels like a wandering spirit bereft of a footfall; he tires of the endless tufts
of needles and yearns for substantial, shapely leaves; he looks for moss and grass to loll upon,
and finds none, for where there is no bark there is naked clay and dirt, enemies to pensive musing
and clean apparel. Often a grassy plain in California, is what it should be, but often, too, it is
best contemplated at a distance, because although its grass blades are tall, they stand up
vindictively straight and self-sufficient, and are unsociably wide apart, with uncomely spots of
barren sand between.

One of the queerest things I know of, is to hear tourists from "the States" go into ecstasies over
the loveliness of "ever-blooming California." And they always do go into that sort of ecstasies. But
perhaps they would modify them if they knew how old Californians, with the memory full upon them of
the dust-covered and questionable summer greens of Californian "verdure," stand astonished, and
filled with worshipping admiration, in the presence of the lavish richness, the brilliant green, the
infinite freshness, the spend-thrift variety of form and species and foliage that make an Eastern
landscape a vision of Paradise itself. The idea of a man falling into raptures over grave and sombre
California, when that man has seen New England's meadow-expanses and her maples, oaks and cathedral-
windowed elms decked in summer attire, or the opaline splendors of autumn descending upon her
forests, comes very near being funny--would be, in fact, but that it is so pathetic. No land with an
unvarying climate can be very beautiful. The tropics are not, for all the sentiment that is wasted
on them. They seem beautiful at first, but sameness impairs the charm by and by. Change is the
handmaiden Nature requires to do her miracles with. The land that has four well-defined seasons,
cannot lack beauty, or pall with monotony. Each season brings a world of enjoyment and interest in
the watching of its unfolding, its gradual, harmonious development, its culminating graces--and just
as one begins to tire of it, it passes away and a radical change comes, with new witcheries and new
glories in its train. And I think that to one in sympathy with nature, each season, in its turn,
seems the loveliest.

San Francisco, a truly fascinating city to live in, is stately and handsome at a fair distance, but
close at hand one notes that the architecture is mostly old-fashioned, many streets are made up of
decaying, smoke-grimed, wooden houses, and the barren sand-hills toward the outskirts obtrude
themselves too prominently. Even the kindly climate is sometimes pleasanter when read about than
personally experienced, for a lovely, cloudless sky wears out its welcome by and by, and then when
the longed for rain does come it stays. Even the playful earthquake is better contemplated at a dis--

However there are varying opinions about that.

The climate of San Francisco is mild and singularly equable. The thermometer stands at about seventy
degrees the year round. It hardly changes at all. You sleep under one or two light blankets Summer
and Winter, and never use a mosquito bar. Nobody ever wears Summer clothing. You wear black broadcloth--
if you have it--in August and January, just the same. It is no colder, and no warmer, in the one
month than the other. You do not use overcoats and you do not use fans. It is as pleasant a climate
as could well be contrived, take it all around, and is doubtless the most unvarying in the whole
world. The wind blows there a good deal in the summer months, but then you can go over to Oakland,
if you choose--three or four miles away--it does not blow there. It has only snowed twice in San
Francisco in nineteen years, and then it only remained on the ground long enough to astonish the
children, and set them to wondering what the feathery stuff was.

During eight months of the year, straight along, the skies are bright and cloudless, and never a
drop of rain falls. But when the other four months come along, you will need to go and steal an
umbrella. Because you will require it. Not just one day, but one hundred and twenty days in hardly
varying succession. When you want to go visiting, or attend church, or the theatre, you never look
up at the clouds to see whether it is likely to rain or not--you look at the almanac. If it is
Winter, it will rain--and if it is Summer, it won't rain, and you cannot help it. You never need a
lightning-rod, because it never thunders and it never lightens. And after you have listened for six
or eight weeks, every night, to the dismal monotony of those quiet rains, you will wish in your
heart the thunder would leap and crash and roar along those drowsy skies once, and make everything
alive--you will wish the prisoned lightnings would cleave the dull firmament asunder and light it
with a blinding glare for one little instant. You would give anything to hear the old familiar
thunder again and see the lightning strike somebody. And along in the Summer, when you have suffered
about four months of lustrous, pitiless sunshine, you are ready to go down on your knees and plead
for rain--hail--snow--thunder and lightning--anything to break the monotony-- you will take an
earthquake, if you cannot do any better. And the chances are that you'll get it, too.

San Francisco is built on sand hills, but they are prolific sand hills. They yield a generous
vegetation. All the rare flowers which people in "the States" rear with such patient care in parlor
flower-pots and green- houses, flourish luxuriantly in the open air there all the year round. Calla
lilies, all sorts of geraniums, passion flowers, moss roses--I do not know the names of a tenth part
of them. I only know that while New Yorkers are burdened with banks and drifts of snow, Californians
are burdened with banks and drifts of flowers, if they only keep their hands off and let them grow.
And I have heard that they have also that rarest and most curious of all the flowers, the beautiful
Espiritu Santo, as the Spaniards call it--or flower of the Holy Spirit--though I thought it grew
only in Central America--down on the Isthmus. In its cup is the daintiest little facsimile of a
dove, as pure as snow. The Spaniards have a superstitious reverence for it. The blossom has been
conveyed to the States, submerged in ether; and the bulb has been taken thither also, but every
attempt to make it bloom after it arrived, has failed.

I have elsewhere spoken of the endless Winter of Mono, California, and but this moment of the
eternal Spring of San Francisco. Now if we travel a hundred miles in a straight line, we come to the
eternal Summer of Sacramento. One never sees Summer-clothing or mosquitoes in San Francisco--but
they can be found in Sacramento. Not always and unvaryingly, but about one hundred and forty-three
months out of twelve years, perhaps. Flowers bloom there, always, the reader can easily believe--
people suffer and sweat, and swear, morning, noon and night, and wear out their stanchest energies
fanning themselves. It gets hot there, but if you go down to Fort Yuma you will find it hotter. Fort
Yuma is probably the hottest place on earth. The thermometer stays at one hundred and twenty in the
shade there all the time--except when it varies and goes higher. It is a U.S. military post, and its
occupants get so used to the terrific heat that they suffer without it. There is a tradition
(attributed to John Phenix [It has been purloined by fifty different scribblers who were too poor to
invent a fancy but not ashamed to steal one.--M. T.]) that a very, very wicked soldier died there,
once, and of course, went straight to the hottest corner of perdition,-- and the next day he
telegraphed back for his blankets. There is no doubt about the truth of this statement--there can be
no doubt about it. I have seen the place where that soldier used to board. In Sacramento it is fiery
Summer always, and you can gather roses, and eat strawberries and ice-cream, and wear white linen
clothes, and pant and perspire, at eight or nine o'clock in the morning, and then take the cars, and
at noon put on your furs and your skates, and go skimming over frozen Donner Lake, seven thousand
feet above the valley, among snow banks fifteen feet deep, and in the shadow of grand mountain peaks
that lift their frosty crags ten thousand feet above the level of the sea.

There is a transition for you! Where will you find another like it in the Western hemisphere? And
some of us have swept around snow-walled curves of the Pacific Railroad in that vicinity, six
thousand feet above the sea, and looked down as the birds do, upon the deathless Summer of the
Sacramento Valley, with its fruitful fields, its feathery foliage, its silver streams, all
slumbering in the mellow haze of its enchanted atmosphere, and all infinitely softened and
spiritualized by distance--a dreamy, exquisite glimpse of fairyland, made all the more charming and
striking that it was caught through a forbidden gateway of ice and snow, and savage crags and
precipices.

***
 
"Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> > a heat pack in, if necessary. So, any info, including list price, on these booties? Thank
> > you, Jeff
>
> I think these are about five or six years old. I have a pair that I wore about twice and then
> threw in a corner where the remain today. They leak like a sieve through the zipper which is
> located on the top of the bootie -- the area that gets drenched by rain. Bad design. They are
> probably O.K. for keeping your feet warm, but they suck as rain booties. -- Jay Beattie.

Hi guys, thanks for the info. I wondered about the wisdom of the front zipper. Fortunately, for me,
I only need them for warmth. I got a real good deal on them, so I'll have a chance to try out
booties and then if I like them, buy a more refined design.

One thing I have learned, no matter what the activity, if I am cold, I am unhappy. And I seem to be
cold, more often since I lost about 40lbs. Last fall I saw a guy wearing shorts and a short sleeve
jersey, I was wearing tights, a long sleeve jersey, a hooded sweatshirt, and a windbreaker. The temp
was in the high 50s. We are all different. Besides my feet getting cold, my ears get cold, very
easily, so I wear a headband in similar temps.

I don't think being impervious to the cold is any indicator of being macho or physically fit. It's
just the way it is, we all have different metabolisms. I do believe that conditioning has some part
in it, as I seem to adapt to the cold, later in the season. Warm to you, cold to me, just the way it
is. Although Rick,s feet seem a bit abnormal, to say the least;-) Life is Good! Jeff
 
In rec.bicycles.tech Carl Fogel <[email protected]> wrote:
: Below is chapter 56 of "Roughing It," which is where he covered California's climate.

my christmas present! thanks carl .. i didn't catch that 'tll much later. tho i don't think it
covered this chapter (which makes sense -- i don't live in california).
--
david reuteler [email protected]
 
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