New american bike company

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    It's about time more players got into the action. These bikes are apparently not made in China or Taiwan or India but Chicago. If they don't come complete with bullet holes my guess is from the looks of them they are going to be a hit.

    https://www.kumabicyclecompany.com/

    CX bikes are really getting popular since it only takes a change of tires to go from gravel to road.
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    tommy...tommy...

    Is there anything in life you get right? That frameset is American-made like you make 600 Watts. Sorry. Neither are true.

    "Buy a Montrose! Your frame will arrive in 1.5 months, or 6 weeks."

    Drop shipped from the land of the Godless Red Chinese.

    This is an American made carbon frame...the Allied Alfa. $3,000. A typical price for an American-made carbon production, nothing special frameset. Made here. In The United States Of America. https://alliedcycleworks.com/pages/allied-alfa

    Price a Parlee or Calfee and you'll spend more.

    The Kuma is an open mold Chicom wonder from Carbon Tech or Xpace. For $1,000 you are not buying American labor.

    http://www.xpa-cycling.com/en/product.html

    https://qtour.en.alibaba.com/

    Shop around. You can buy that same frameset for $400-$600.

    Nashbar will sell you the complete Chinese carbon CX bike for $1400. Less when on closeout. https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling...clocross-bikes/nashbar-carbon-cx-bike-nb-cbcx

    I sent an email off to Kuma and asked on their Facebook as to where their framesets are manufactured. No reply so far.
     
  3. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for the fun to begin.
     
  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    LOL Froze!

    An Ernesto Martinez-Ordaz replied:

    Hi Robert, I’ve never heard of those companies.

    Ernesto from Ernesto Lube
    Biodegradable bike lube
    ernesto@ernestolube.com



    On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 7:38 AM <no-reply@parastorage.com> wrote:

    Apparently, Ernesto makes a soybean-based biodegradeable bicycle oil. Perfect for Vegans. Company is called Ernesto Lube, Ernesto-Lube or similar. How Ernesto ties into Kumo??? No clue. Supposedly, Ernesto is a "one man shop" according to an article in Mtn. Bike Review.

    Weird that he never heard of Xpace or Carbon Tech, which in addition to Giant are among the largest manufacturers of contract carbon frame, fork, handlebars/stems and rims on the planet.

    Weirder still that he did not address my question as to 'where' the frames were manufactured.

    Same reply on Facebook. I asked, for a second time via email and Facebook for an answer as to where the frames are manufactured. Should be an easy one to answer and if they are really built here in the States you would think they would be anxious to brag that up. We'll see.

    Allied bib shorts, jersey's, bikes, headset spacers and sew-on patches all tout the "Made Here" (words surrounded by outline of the United States map) and USA color schemes...as would any manufacturer of a proudly built Made In America product.

    Allied's mission statement:

    OUR MISSION
    MAKE THE BEST BICYCLES AND COMPONENTS
    IN THE WORLD, RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Ernesto sent me another cryptic reply. "Western hemisphere".

    So...we're down to half the planet.

    Anyone want to put $50 on Mexico? A C-Note on Honduras? $10 on Brazil?

    Off to see which "Western hemisphere" outfits are banging out carbon frames and forks. Let's search out Chitown first...
     
  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    14 Mexican bicycle manufacturers. None seem to do carbon work, but that doesn't mean they aren't already set up and in production. Still looking like some Asian open mold platform.
     
  7. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    As I suspected...

    Ernesto just edited his reply on Kuma's Facebook page with a one-word answer to my question. "Asia."

    Ernesto Martinez-Ordaz Asia
    Manage

    Like
    · Reply · 2h · Edited

    Yup. A typical Chinese open mold $400 on Alibaba frame.

    Ernesto lists himself in his FB profile as working for Grenzebach Glier and Associates. They have offices in Chicago. Attended Barat College in Lake Forest, Ill.

    Ernesto's FB profile pic: [​IMG]

    As Froze said...let the fun begin! LOL!
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm certainly having fun! I wonder where the liar scurried off to, Froze! LOL! Well...maybe we can post pics of some real American made carbon frames.

    [​IMG]

    Frame by Criterion Composites for Santana. Complete bike base MSRP $15,000. That one would be a nice upgrade from my Sovereign. The weight saving of carbon would knock multiple pounds off what my Scandium Easton tubeset goes!
     
  9. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I like Santana tandems, especially their steel one that can do loaded touring, But I after comparing it with the Co-Motion (which also makes great tandems) the Mocha had a bit more going for it of course because it cost a bit more. I was going to buy one for my wife and I but she took a turn for the worst physically and couldn't barely ride her own bike more than a couple of blocks so I had to shelve the idea...at least that saved me 5 grand!
     
  10. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    My Santana has front and rear rack bosses and came with a Blackburn pannier rack for the rear. Included were both the Thudbuster stoker seatpost (shown) and a standard fixed stoker seatpost (now on the bike). Also included were the cowhorns and drop bars w/hoods for the stoker. Under a grand purchase price. Well under a grand. Craigslist, of course.

    Brakes have the Travel Agent option, but are still marginal for even our hills and descending turns. All Ultegra stuff for what it's worth. It functions well enough, especially considering the cable runs, etc. The Arai drum drag brake adds safety (it also add about 3 pounds of weight for the unit and its control!) for long mountain descents or panic stops and is actuated via left bar end ratchet shifter. Experienced owners of the Arai drum brake tell me they never wear out.

    This one was built for the buyer of a chain of local bike stores. I'ld like to off the 48-spoke bomb-proof tank wheels and put on a set of shimaNO or Spinergy wheels. It's a tank, Froze! IIRC it lists at 42-43 pounds! Just picking it up and getting it in the truck bed is a pain. It's noticeably rear-end heavy with that drum brake mounted on it.

    Came with 2 pairs of OEM flat pedals/toe clips and straps. I bought 2 pairs of Ultegra SPD-L pedals for it, but she prefers the flat pedals.

    175 cranks up front and 170 in the back. The 175's always feel a little weird starting out, but they stick them om the tandems for a little extra climbing leverage.

    The most impressive feature? That awesome Captain's stem! No rise...love it!

    But, the deal was too good to pass up. If I were going to by a new Santana I would still buy a Sovereign, but go for a double chainset, disc brakes on both ends, the carbon fork and lighten it up in the wheel and cockpit component areas. The saddles on mine are OEM ones. They are comfy enough for short rides, but again they weigh a ton.

    I don't know much about CoMotion tandems other than friends had two of them. They cracked their first steel frame, but thought enough of it to buy a second one. They used to put a lot of miles on their tandems and both were very good cyclists. I did a semi-rainy/misty/humid metric organized charity ride or such and spent all of it eating shit off their back wheel. Never sweated so much or worked so hard for 60 miles. We flew past everyone and their speed was such that only a few riders could jump for the draft.

    Burley also used to build a decent tandem for reasonable money, but IIRC have moved out of the building business entirely. Almost snagged a Burley before seeing the Santana for sale.

    Like you, this is a wifey machine. Rails-To-Trails terror, for sure!

    Santana Tandem 2.jpg
     
  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    For $4,000 the specs on the Mocha look good. Got to go high-end to get thru-axles on a Santana.

    I prefer the Scandium tubeset for both its weight reduction properties and for the oversize shapes adding stiffness. Still prefer the lateral tube on the Sovereign...again, for stiffness.

    What's said about tandems is true. They really move on flat to rolling terrain, plow right through most headwinds, handle like aircraft carriers and ride like trucks (stoker getting weight off saddle can be a bit challenging).

    What's the base weight on the Mocha. Didn't see it listed on the website?
     
  12. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Froze, I haven't weighed the tandem yet, but Santana lists the stock version of the Sovereign at 32 pounds 5 ounces. Add for the 48-spoke wheel builds and I'ld guess we're at 33. Add in that Arai drum brake (I've recently read Arai has or is planning a replacement due to demand) and it's heading for 36+ pounds real fast. Add 4 bottle cages for 37. 4 pedals for 38 pounds.

    I could be a little heavy on my original 42-43 figure, but not by a lot. Add for a small seat bag with spares and you're dragging a lot of mass up the steep stuff Ohio riders deal with.

    Karasawa has continued making their tandem drum brake: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/karasawa-screw-on-tandem-drum-brake-replaces-arai/ These, like the Arai, are perfect as a drag / set brake for long mountain descents to keep speed in check and also as a service brake.

    There's also the MDD design, but I'm not familiar with it: https://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/next-generation-drag-brake-now-available/

    Tandems haul ass on descents, but for safety I still think a pair of disc brakes is the way to go. For Indiana a drag brake is probably not a needed option. For most of Ohio it's also pretty much dead weight.
     
  13. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    On your best day your floppy shoes and red round nose and white face shows us what you are. Trek is made in India and Specialize is made in Taiwan. Most American bicycle companies are out of business now because people like you like to talk about how junky they are. Pretty soon Santana will go the same way.
     
  14. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    FFS. You're a fucking moron.

    "These bikes are apparently not made in China or Taiwan or India but Chicago."

    Uh. Wrong. Again. Unless by Chicago you meant Chicago, mainland China! LMAO!

    And 'apparently' you're as retarded when it comes to bicycles as you are with material science, training with power and all the other dumb shit you post.

    But please. Do tell us all again how you can ride with 600 Watts for an hour!

    LMFAO! What a dumbass.
     
  15. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    With every posting you are showing a mental problem that is showing every other reader of this group that you cannot be trusted to tell anyone anything of worth. Do you scare all the little children in your neighborhood as well?

    Tell me where you live so that we can look up your real racing record. One second place in one race in which there were three riders?

    As I said, here there are a dozen or more Master's class sprinting for the line at once and yet you show you finishing a lap down on the Pork Chop Eating Champion. That's pretty telling.

    And while I do not make any bragging, I am sure from your postings that you cannot match my output. All you can do is play video games. Are those pictures of you supposedly finishing second photoshopped or from your video game?
     
  16. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Mistake? No. It wasn't a "mistake". It was a blatant lie and one that you repeated over and over. Then you tried to claim the average vet rider could make 800 Watts! LMFAO!

    You had every chance to correct your "mistake" and yet you did NOT! You continued to argue, like the dumb fuck that you are, that you made 600 Watts. For an entire HOUR!

    Instead of admitting that you lied and had no idea how little power you actually make you continued to lie like the little bitch that you are.

    C'mon little bitch. Let's see that power file that proves you can make 300 Watts for an hour! LMAO! Hell, post up your data file that proves your fat fucking ass can make 300 Watts for 20 minutes!

    Keep lying, moron. You NEVER, EVER made 600 Watts.

    Not for the hour that you claimed and then repeatedly claimed.

    Not for 20 minutes.

    Not for 10 minutes.

    Not for 5 minutes.

    Not even for ONE stinking minute of your miserable, lying life.

    And yet here you are.

    STILL defending your lying ass.

    With EVERY post you make you reinforce the fact that you lied to a man that came to the board seeking advice. You lied to everyone that read that thread. More importantly, you lied to yourself over and over after being exposed as a fake.

    Man up, dickhead and apologize for your lying.
     
  17. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    And...your dumb, fat ass still has no clue where that bike was manufactured! LMFAO!

    A Cat2 friend turned in this performance over the weekend:

    I had a goal 260w NP, 148-155HR.
    My actual numbers 247NP / 264(max 20min) 151 Ave HR.


    He's 30, lean, efficient, train by the numbers power guy. Not some old fuck yard wide fat ass like you, tommy.

    And yet YOU claim to exceed his numbers!!! LMFAO!

    This idiocy of yours has long passed the point of insanity on your part! It's so far out of the realm of reality that I can't stop laughing at how dumb you really are about cycling, training and power. That thump on the noggin must have really fried you!

    You claimed almost triple his stats! And you the lie some more by claiming it was a "mistake"!!! LMAO! One hellova "mistake" for a guy that invented everything but the light bub and lived by numbers! Huh?!?!

    Than you claimed the average Joe vet could do EIGHT HUNDRED WATTS! For an hour!!!! LMFAO!

    Nope, dumbass. That was no "mistake". That was YOU lying your ass off repeatedly.

    Mistake? Nope. It wasn't a "mistake". It was a blatant lie and one that you repeated over and over. Then you tried to claim the average vet rider could make 800 Watts! LMFAO!

    You had every chance to correct your "mistake" and yet you did NOT! You continued to argue, like the dumb fuck that you are, that you made 600 Watts. For an entire HOUR!

    Instead of admitting that you lied and had no idea how little power you actually make you continued to lie like the little bitch that you are.

    C'mon little bitch. Let's see that power file that proves you can make 300 Watts for an hour! LMAO! Hell, post up your data file that proves your fat fucking ass can make 300 Watts for 20 minutes!

    Keep lying, moron. You NEVER, EVER made 600 Watts.

    Not for the hour that you claimed and then repeatedly claimed.

    Not for 20 minutes.

    Not for 10 minutes.

    Not for 5 minutes.

    Not even for ONE stinking minute of your miserable, lying life.

    And yet here you are.

    STILL defending your lying ass.

    With EVERY post you make you reinforce the fact that you lied to a man that came to the board seeking advice. You lied to everyone that read that thread. More importantly, you lied to yourself over and over after being exposed as a fake.

    Man up, dickhead and apologize for your lying.
     
  18. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Well, now we know that PansyBob thinks that Cannondale, Trek and Specialized are not American bicycle companies. He probably thinks that Schwinn is though since that's his racer.
     
  19. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Wow, ok, moving on...I could not find the weight on the Co-Motion Mocha, I would have thought at least some owner would have posted that info somewhere on the web...nope.
     
  20. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    32 pounds for a tandem isn't bad, but 'real world' and ready to ride my Santana is a genuine tank. It's never been a mystery as to why tandems climb like bricks. They weigh a lot (as a rule for the older steel rigs and most tandems in the sub-$4,000 class) and it takes a fit pair of riders that are well practiced with each other to gain altitude rapidly. Most husband/wife teams were easy for me to hang with on the flats and leave in the dust once the hills started. On the flats a good team could make you suffer like a dog. It was always a case of how many miles you could hold 30 MPH or whatever for before blowing up.

    Now, I wish I had the local team mates handy or a wife that hit the gym 5 days a week! If that were the case blowing $10K or even $15K on a fast racing tandem would be a good investment. Check out Santana's high end rigs. Good looking, stiff, light weight and very, very expensive.

    Then check out Santana's travel cruises! Santana has sold over 25,000 tandems and made a lot of money doing that, but they make a metric shit ton of money from selling their famous tandem excursions. You better have deep pockets to go on one! Travel to & from the events plus booking a cruise for two can range from $3,000 to $20,000! Their travel outings are highly rated, but it's the domain of dentists and attorneys that coincidentally own tandem rigs and like to ride in foreign countries. Add in the cost of a $20,000 tandem with Titanium couplers and two or three travel cases for it at $2,000 or so plus accessories and you can see where the bank account is headed.

    If there's one thing in cycling that can absolutely humiliate those super aero 'human powered vehicles'...the egg-shaped, fully enclosed recumbents...it's a fast tandem pair on a lightweight, purpose-built racing tandem.

    Those old Paramount tandems weren't the stiffest things ever built, by damn could they fly with a pair of conditioned racers on them! Some of my first real high speed workouts were behind motorcycles and tandems. We used to sign up for charity rides and organized tours and scout the parking lots in the morning just looking for fast tandems to head out with.
     
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