New Bike 30-day tune up

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by CHUSMA, Jun 16, 2003.

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  1. CHUSMA

    CHUSMA Guest

    Question for the group:

    When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring it back after 30 days and I'll tune
    it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they need to be adjusted."

    My question is:

    What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    they are supposed to do.

    Thanks,

    CHUSMA
     
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  2. Jon Bond

    Jon Bond Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Question for the group:
    >
    > When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring it back after 30 days and I'll tune
    > it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they need to be adjusted."
    >
    > My question is:
    >
    > What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    > they are supposed to do.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    >
    > CHUSMA

    Don't worry about it - any shop will do the exact same thing. If you don't know what they're doing
    anyway, describing it online isn't really going to help.

    And yes, that's true about the cables stretching. Goes for brakes too. They'll simply play with the
    barrel adjusters, or, if necessary, the cable itself at the clamps, and make sure its shifting
    smoothly and braking well. That's pretty much it. They might do a onceover real quickly to make sure
    everything else is still in good working order too.

    Jon Bond
     
  3. CHUSMA-<< When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring it back after 30 days and
    I'll tune it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they need to be adjusted."
    >><BR><BR>

    << My question is:

    What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    they are supposed to do. >><BR><BR>

    A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    wrench in most bike shops. If the bike shop is decent, the genuine wrenches will ensure the wheels
    are true, shifters shift, brakes brake, bearings adjusted. Too bad that so many bike shops don't
    understand that if the bike was assembled properly first, then they would save money in the long run
    due to reduced 'returns for adjustments'.

    As another answer, there is no standard for what the bike shop will do for the '30 day' check..

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  4. Ajames54

    Ajames54 Guest

    On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:59:49 -0500 (CDT), [email protected] wrote:

    >Question for the group:
    >
    >When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring it back after 30 days and I'll tune
    >it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they need to be adjusted."
    >
    >My question is:
    >
    >What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    >they are supposed to do.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    The real reason for the thirty day check is to get you back in the store ...

    Peters point is valid ... a lot of shops will just have the bike assembled by the minimum wage kid
    and in those shops yes the adjustments are important. But really they just want to see you again...

    Just about the first thing they ask will be something along the lines of "How is the bike working
    out for you?" Any issue you have will be addressed by a potential add-on sale... butt sore? "we
    have seats" hands or wrists sore? "new grips or gloves can help" Even if you tell them everything
    is great then if the bike looks like it was ridden in the rain..."we have fenders". chain looks a
    little dry ..."you will want to oil your chain more often, we have this great oil..." Where is
    your bell?"

    When people buy their bike they usually have a set budget in mind and are often resistant to add-ons
    at time of purchase, (or even worse they expect to get a deal on things like seats/fenders/racks) 30
    days later they are ready to spend again.
     
  5. On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:21:45 GMT, "Jon Bond" <Jonathan.[email protected]> wrote:

    >And yes, that's true about the cables stretching. Goes for brakes too. They'll simply play with the
    >barrel adjusters, or, if necessary, the cable itself at the clamps, and make sure its shifting
    >smoothly and braking well. That's pretty much it. They might do a onceover real quickly to make
    >sure everything else is still in good working order too.

    They should be checking spoke tensions, as well.

    Jasper
     
  6. John Everett

    John Everett Guest

    On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:21:45 GMT, "Jon Bond" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >And yes, that's true about the cables stretching.

    Do you REALLY think multi-strand stainless steel cable actually stretches? What is generally
    perceived as "cable stretch" is actually cable housing bedding firmly into the stops and compressing
    slightly. A contributing factor is the initial wear of brake shoes as they are toed-in and wear
    quite quickly at first.

    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
     
  7. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    > A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    > wrench in most bike shops. If the bike shop is
    decent,
    > the genuine wrenches will ensure the wheels are true, shifters shift,
    brakes
    > brake, bearings adjusted. Too bad that so many bike shops don't understand
    that
    > if the bike was assembled properly first, then they would save money in
    the
    > long run due to reduced 'returns for adjustments'.
    >
    > As another answer, there is no standard for what the bike shop will do for
    the
    > '30 day' check..
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm

    Yeah, but if you tell someone to bring it in after 30 days, it is another chance to help them buy
    things that they didn't know they needed the first time. Think add-on sales: shorts, patch kits,
    maybe change out the saddle, whatever.

    Every time I've seen a 30-day checkup done it is basically making sure that the shifting's right,
    the brakes are right, the wheels are true, and minor things like that.

    You have to get the customer back in the shop in order to sell them something, right?

    Mike
     
  8. John Everett <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:21:45 GMT, "Jon Bond" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>And yes, that's true about the cables stretching.
    >
    > Do you REALLY think multi-strand stainless steel cable actually stretches? What is generally
    > perceived as "cable stretch" is actually cable housing bedding firmly into the stops and
    > compressing slightly. A contributing factor is the initial wear of brake shoes as they are toed-in
    > and wear quite quickly at first.
    >
    >
    > jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

    Does it really matter? The end result is the same. The same adjustments need to be made
    regardless of what is the actual cause of the problem. So please, don't waste our time with such
    a frivoulous argument.

    - Boyd S.
     
  9. >Every time I've seen a 30-day checkup done it is basically making sure that the shifting's right,
    >the brakes are right, the wheels are true, and minor things like that.
    >
    >You have to get the customer back in the shop in order to sell them something, right?
    >

    I recently bought a new bike, and was told to bring the bike back in 30 days or 100miles, I brought
    it back for adjustments after 20 days and 400 miles. The LBS is about 15 miles from home - but is
    close to a school where my wife attends. I packed clean clothes in her car in the morning, and told
    her that I would meet her after school to take her out for dinner - allowing me to ride down to the
    LBS to drop off the bike. As luck would have it, it was raining that afternoon, so when I dropped
    off the bike - it was a muddy mess. Brakes were adjusted, shifting was adjusted, and the bike came
    back to me spotless and freshly lubed. Not sure what all was done, but there was no attempt to sell
    me anything additional. More than I expected for a free service.

    The bike may have been put together by someone who was less than expert - it came with a front tube
    pinched under the bead which resulted in a flat. Otherwise assembly and adjustment seemed good.
     
  10. [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) writes:

    >A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    >wrench in most bike shops. If the bike shop is decent, the genuine wrenches will ensure the wheels
    >are true, shifters shift, brakes brake, bearings adjusted.

    I really disagree with this statement. Maybe things have changed in 30 years, but when I started to
    ride 30 years ago the very best shops on earth offered a 30-day tuneup for all their products.

    Anyone who know anything about fault tolerance and the infant mortality period for newly born
    (humans, manufactured goods) knows that a 30-day checkup can greatly reduce the infant mortality of
    not only the individual subsystems, but consequently, the reliability of the entire machine itself.
    Since the lifecycle for any device is basically a bathtub curve, it makes a great deal of sense to
    monitor the device early in its life to check for faults. Having taught graduate courses in this
    area, i think that a 30-day checkup on ANY mechanical device is a good idea, period.

    Don Gillies - [email protected] - CTO, Kiyon Inc. http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~gillies
     
  11. On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:26:12 GMT, John Everett <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Do you REALLY think multi-strand stainless steel cable actually stretches? What is generally
    >perceived as "cable stretch" is actually cable housing bedding firmly into the stops and
    >compressing slightly.

    And your point is? As a practical matter, brake cables stretch. Whether that's one component getting
    longer or the other shorter is completely irrelevant.

    Jasper
     
  12. Jon Bond

    Jon Bond Guest

    "John Everett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:21:45 GMT, "Jon Bond" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >And yes, that's true about the cables stretching.
    >
    > Do you REALLY think multi-strand stainless steel cable actually stretches? What is generally
    > perceived as "cable stretch" is actually cable housing bedding firmly into the stops and
    > compressing slightly. A contributing factor is the initial wear of brake shoes as they are toed-in
    > and wear quite quickly at first.
    >
    >
    > jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

    Fine, either way the effect is the same. So whats the reason that my brakes needed adjusting after
    the first few rides when I changed only cables, everything else being the same?

    Jon Bond
     
  13. On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:20:47 +0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

    > A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    > wrench in most bike shops.

    That is both a bit harsh, and true. As are the comments about getting you back in the shop to sell
    you more stuff. Frankly, though, if I built someone a wheel, I would like to see it after a while,
    just to be sure it's OK. If it is not completely true, that would suggest to me that the
    stress-relieving was inadequate, and I would do it again.

    No harm in suggesting it, and if the customer can't avoid buying an accessory, who is the shop owner
    to complain? He/she is, after all, paying a wrench, good or not, to service the bike, and he gets
    nothing for the service.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  14. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > CHUSMA-<< When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring
    it
    > back after 30 days and I'll tune it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they
    > need to be adjusted."
    >
    > << My question is:
    >
    > What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    > they are supposed to do.

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    > wrench in most bike shops. If the bike shop is
    decent,
    > the genuine wrenches will ensure the wheels are true, shifters shift,
    brakes
    > brake, bearings adjusted. Too bad that so many bike shops don't understand
    that
    > if the bike was assembled properly first, then they would save money in
    the
    > long run due to reduced 'returns for adjustments'.
    >
    > As another answer, there is no standard for what the bike shop will do for
    the
    > '30 day' check..

    Agreed. We stopped doing those a long time ago. I get two signatures on each assembly (
    built/checked) Now, I just ask customers taking delivery of a new bicycle to call or stop in
    promptly if there is a noise or anything they feel is untoward. And no time limit on our assembly
    quality assurance. If we have erred, we'll correct it, no time limit. The actual number is so small
    it isn't a factor in scheduling here.

    Building a bicycle is not rocket science. We open every bearing and lubricate it. We open every
    cable and lube it. We remove every fastener and lube it. Amazingly, our bicycles seem not to need
    "tune-ups" every couple of weeks. We only spend 45 minutes to an hour and a half on each bike. That
    is a far cry from the industry standard of "ten minute assembly" wherein the pedals are installed
    and the bike hustled out the door with a half-dozen "free tune up" coupons.

    ps- if the mechanic pulled the cables tight to seat the ferrules properly, modern cables will not
    require retensioning in thirty days, or ever. They don't stretch (See FAQ).
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  15. > We stopped doing those a long time ago. I get two signatures on each assembly ( built/checked)
    > Now, I just ask customers taking delivery of a new bicycle to call or stop in promptly if there is
    > a noise or anything
    they
    > feel is untoward. And no time limit on our assembly quality assurance. If we have erred, we'll
    > correct it, no time limit. The actual number is so small it isn't a factor in scheduling here.
    >
    > Building a bicycle is not rocket science. We open every bearing and lubricate it. We open every
    > cable and lube it. We remove every fastener and lube it. Amazingly, our bicycles seem not to need
    > "tune-ups" every couple of weeks. We only spend 45 minutes to an hour and a half on each bike.
    > That is a far cry from the industry standard of "ten minute assembly" wherein the pedals are
    > installed and the bike hustled out the door with a half-dozen "free tune up" coupons.
    >
    > ps- if the mechanic pulled the cables tight to seat the ferrules properly, modern cables will not
    > require retensioning in thirty days, or ever. They don't stretch (See FAQ).

    #1: The 30-day check is an opportunity to see how things hold up over time.
    Not all defects show themselves up during assembly, even by the most skilled mechanic (although it's
    also curious how your better mechanics seem to have fewer problems with defective components).

    #2: Perhaps even more important, the 30-day check brings you, the customer
    and their bike back together again, when you have a chance to talk about the riding they've been
    doing, how they're maintaining their bike, and any fit issues that may have come up. We often learn
    more about how customers are riding at the 30-day-check than when sell them the bike (and typically
    have a calmer environment to go over thing with them, as opposed to a wild Saturday when you're
    juggling all sorts of things and happy when you only drop half of them).

    It's all about keeping communications open with the customer. Or, to use the cliché, relationships.
    Assuming that we do have some expertise to offer, we want to make sure the customer has a decent
    reason to come into the shop without feeling intimidated. It's amazing how many people will put up
    with problems for months, maybe years... things that we can easily take care of, if only we knew!

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  16. Andrew Price

    Andrew Price Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > CHUSMA-<< When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring
    it
    > back after 30 days and I'll tune it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they
    > need to be adjusted." >><BR><BR>

    Your first Real Bike is the start of a journey that takes you many places.

    A knowledgeable and approachable person at the LBS gives you some basic stars to steer by on
    that journey.

    The bits or the services they may or may net sell you or provide gratis are incidental - it is their
    accumulated wisdom that is of value.

    Unlike many retailers, they usually stay friends, even if you wish to debate finer points with them
    - as always, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing ...

    best, Andrew

    "But riding is my special gift, my chiefest, sole delight; Just ask a wild duck can it swim, a
    wildcat can it fight... I'll ride this here two-wheeled concern, right straight away, at sight." A B
    ‘Banjo’ Patterson - "Mulga Bill" 25 July 1896.
     
  17. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Jon Bond <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:24725-3EEE8425-21[email protected]...
    > > Question for the group:
    > >
    > > When I bought my bike the fellow at the bike shop said, "Bring it back after 30 days and I'll
    > > tune it up for you. After 30 days, the shifter cables stretch and they need to be adjusted."
    > >
    > > My question is:
    > >
    > > What exactly do they do to the bike? I want to observe to make sure that they do everything that
    > > they are supposed to do.
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > >
    > > CHUSMA
    >
    > Don't worry about it - any shop will do the exact same thing. If you
    don't
    > know what they're doing anyway, describing it online isn't really going to help.
    >
    > And yes, that's true about the cables stretching. Goes for brakes too. They'll simply play with
    > the barrel adjusters, or, if necessary, the cable itself at the clamps, and make sure its shifting
    > smoothly and braking
    well.
    > That's pretty much it. They might do a onceover real quickly to make sure everything else is still
    > in good working order too.
    >
    > Jon Bond

    Jon - I am completely and utterly *amazed!

    Shaun aRe - *Not a mention of the 'S' word!
     
  18. Ns>

    Ns> Guest

    <cut>

    Absolutely, The main reason is...to get you back into the store. The LBS here proved that. I bough a
    frame pump and it broke.... I took it back to the store and the sales person (who looked like he has
    been on a bike once maybe) gave me the smaller sized frame pump. He guaranteed it would fit my bike.
    I got it home and of course it didn't forcing me to go back uyp there and deal with someone who was
    actually helpful... I refused to buy aything. I just went in and exchanged it... I actually do
    believe he just wanted me to use the one that was out of the box. But the sales trick is the same...
    You can't buy anything from the store if you are at home (unless they have an online presence with
    an extensive products page).

    NS
     
  19. Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Do you REALLY think multi-strand stainless steel cable actually stretches? What is generally
    >>perceived as "cable stretch" is actually cable housing bedding firmly into the stops and
    >>compressing slightly.
    >And your point is? As a practical matter, brake cables stretch. Whether that's one component
    >getting longer or the other shorter is completely irrelevant.

    No, it's not. People who believe the fiction that brake cables stretch may install used brake cables
    in fresh housing and fail to check the adjustment under the mistaken impression that they are
    already stretched.

    In addition, in a technical newsgroup I don't think it does any harm to make someone aware of the
    truth when they are under a false impression, whether or not it is directly relevant.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
     
  20. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Mike S. wrote:
    >>A '30 day' check is a result of poor assembly, generally. The kid that assembles isn't really a
    >>wrench in most bike shops. If the bike shop is
    >
    > decent,
    >
    >>the genuine wrenches will ensure the wheels are true, shifters shift,
    >
    > brakes
    >
    >>brake, bearings adjusted. Too bad that so many bike shops don't understand
    >
    > that
    >
    >>if the bike was assembled properly first, then they would save money in
    >
    > the
    >
    >>long run due to reduced 'returns for adjustments'.
    >>
    >>As another answer, there is no standard for what the bike shop will do for
    >
    > the
    >
    >>'30 day' check..
    >>
    >>
    >>Peter Chisholm
    >
    >
    > Yeah, but if you tell someone to bring it in after 30 days, it is another chance to help them buy
    > things that they didn't know they needed the first time. Think add-on sales: shorts, patch kits,
    > maybe change out the saddle, whatever.
    >
    > Every time I've seen a 30-day checkup done it is basically making sure that the shifting's right,
    > the brakes are right, the wheels are true, and minor things like that.
    >
    > You have to get the customer back in the shop in order to sell them something, right?
    >
    > Mike
    >

    I was told that my LBS would also check fastener tightness on things like splined cranks, and
    quick releases.

    David
     
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