New Bike Choices

[WTOCMike]

Okay, I'm trying to sort out a bunch of different things, and could use some other opinions.

I've been riding, casually, a couple years now. Currently on a Raleigh C40 Sport Comfort, and it's been good to me. Riding about four days a week, 8 - 10 miles on weekdays, can often sneak in a 20-miler on the weekend. I ride almost exclusively on suburban streets or wide sidewalks between neighborhoods, and on those longer rides, usually mix in five miles or so on the shoulder of a busy, four- lane arterial road with traffic whizzing by at 50 or so.

My main comfort concern is some spinal damage in my neck, which makes riding in the traditional road bike position not an option.

I promised myself if I kept at it I'd earn a new bike, and I've been looking at several. But the big question, what do you think of them modifying a road bike I like (current example - Cannondale Synapse Carbon 5 or 6) with a taller stem to move me more upright, or a Cannondale Quick 2 or 3. Obviously, an extensive test ride or two in my future, but I'm also concerned about the terrain I ride. Almost never off pavement, sometimes a shortcut between neighborhoods, or over a construction - gravel driveway on my regular routes.

Opinions as I want for them to deliver a 2009 or two?

Thanks...

Mike

 

[alfeng]

Okay, I'm trying to sort out a bunch of different things, and could use some other opinions.

I've been riding, casually, a couple years now. Currently on a Raleigh C40 Sport Comfort, and it's been good to me. Riding about four days a week, 8 - 10 miles on weekdays, can often sneak in a 20-miler on the weekend. I ride almost exclusively on suburban streets or wide sidewalks between neighborhoods, and on those longer rides, usually mix in five miles or so on the shoulder of a busy, four- lane arterial road with traffic whizzing by at 50 or so.

My main comfort concern is some spinal damage in my neck, which makes riding in the traditional road bike position not an option.

I promised myself if I kept at it I'd earn a new bike, and I've been looking at several. But the big question, what do you think of them modifying a road bike I like (current example - Cannondale Synapse Carbon 5 or 6) with a taller stem to move me more upright, or a Cannondale Quick 2 or 3. Obviously, an extensive test ride or two in my future, but I'm also concerned about the terrain I ride. Almost never off pavement, sometimes a shortcut between neighborhoods, or over a construction - gravel driveway on my regular routes.

Opinions as I want for them to deliver a 2009 or two?

What is the wheel-and-tire size on your current bike? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your current bike have 26" wheels/tires?

IMO, you will be VERY UNHAPPY if you try to turn most contemporary road bikes into a bike for the riding conditions you describe because most road bikes can only use a 700x25-or-smaller tire.

While most OLDER road bikes can handle larger tires, most contemprary road bikes cannot -- I want to say that SOME contemporary road bikes (perhaps, Colnago ... definitely, SURLY's road frame [if it is still available]) can just barely fit a 700x28, but I think those will be the exception. I think you will be happier with a bike which can use 700x28-or-larger tires.

For the riding conditions you described, you either want a Hybrid which has 700c wheels (some Hybrid bikes apparently have 26" wheels) OR a 29er.

29er bikes generally come with 700x58 tires, but you can certainly fit a 700x32 "cyclocross" tire on the rim.

I think the off-the-rack tire size for Hybrids is 700x42 ... again, you can certainly fit a 700x32 tire on the rim (probably, 622-20).

To oversimplify -- a 29er is a more expensive Hybrid which can accept fatter 700x58 tires ... a 29er will have either a "solid" fork or a higher quality suspension fork than you will find on the Hybrid-or-Comfort bikes which have front suspension forks ... and, a 29er will either be a single-speed or geared.

Hybrids LACK any cool-factor ... they ARE essentially devolved "touring" bikes which come with mid-range (at best) components [components can be replaced/upgraded] to keep the initial LBS price as low as possible ...

Some Hybrid models are hobbled with a suspension fork which probably adds more weight than comfort; nonetheless, a Hybrid with 700c wheels is probably a good general bike for most riders.

 

[WTOCMike]

My current bike has Kenda Kross 700 x 40c @ 50 - 75 psi. They're "Cupped" tires with the usual point of contact fairly smooth, with some "slits", while the edges are nubbier to grip if the going gets deep. My LBS has suggested narrower tires if I want, but this is where we are.

I guess part of what I'm wondering is if I modified my rides a little bit, avoiding the gravel drive crossing and the dirt path shortcut, and staying on the roads & sidewalks, would the Synapse be a good choice. My LBS doesn't have one in stock yet, to get me in the saddle and make more informed decisions.

Thanks for your thoughtful response!

What is the wheel-and-tire size on your current bike? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't your current bike have 26" wheels/tires?

IMO, you will be VERY UNHAPPY if you try to turn most contemporary road bikes into a bike for the riding conditions you describe because most road bikes can only use a 700x25-or-smaller tire.

While most OLDER road bikes can handle larger tires, most contemprary road bikes cannot -- I want to say that SOME contemporary road bikes (perhaps, Colnago ... definitely, SURLY's road frame [if it is still available]) can just barely fit a 700x28, but I think those will be the exception. I think you will be happier with a bike which can use 700x28-or-larger tires.

For the riding conditions you described, you either want a Hybrid which has 700c wheels (some Hybrid bikes apparently have 26" wheels) OR a 29er.

29er bikes generally come with 700x58 tires, but you can certainly fit a 700x32 "cyclocross" tire on the rim.

I think the off-the-rack tire size for Hybrids is 700x42 ... again, you can certainly fit a 700x32 tire on the rim (probably, 622-20).

To oversimplify -- a 29er is a more expensive Hybrid which can accept fatter 700x58 tires ... a 29er will have either a "solid" fork or a higher quality suspension fork than you will find on the Hybrid-or-Comfort bikes which have front suspension forks ... and, a 29er will either be a single-speed or geared.

Hybrids LACK any cool-factor ... they ARE essentially devolved "touring" bikes which come with mid-range (at best) components [components can be replaced/upgraded] to keep the initial LBS price as low as possible ...

Some Hybrid models are hobbled with a suspension fork which probably adds more weight than comfort; nonetheless, a Hybrid with 700c wheels is probably a good general bike for most riders.

 

[alfeng]

My current bike has Kenda Kross 700 x 40c @ 50 - 75 psi. They're "Cupped" tires with the usual point of contact fairly smooth, with some "slits", while the edges are nubbier to grip if the going gets deep. My LBS has suggested narrower tires if I want, but this is where we are.

Listen to your LBS & buy some narrower tires & tubes, FIRST, before you pony up any money on a new bike, particularly if you are keen on buying a ROAD bike whose maximum useable tire size may only be 700x25.

Now, as far as the Kenda Kross tires being cupped, they probably shouldn't be. Were they always that way? Or, have you just put on so many miles that the center has worn thin & they are cupped when they are under-inflated?

I guess part of what I'm wondering is if I modified my rides a little bit, avoiding the gravel drive crossing and the dirt path shortcut, and staying on the roads & sidewalks, would the Synapse be a good choice. My LBS doesn't have one in stock yet, to get me in the saddle and make more informed decisions.

With regard to the bikes you are currently considering, I think you can test ride ANY road bike to get a sense of whether-or-not you will be happy-or-unhappy with the narrower tire size ...

For the type of riding you described, I don't think you will perceive ANY difference between two different ROAD bikes if the components & saddles are the same (and, the tires are inflated to the same PSI) except if/when you are lifting it off the ground to put it on a vehicle for transport or away in your garage/house.

Again, IMO, if you are keen to buy a ROAD bike, then I think it will be well worth your money to first buy some 700x25 tires & tubes to use on your Raleigh ... because, even if you think the test ride (hopefully, more than just in the "parking lot") of a new, road bike is satisfactory, you'll want probably have a better idea of just how much better-or-worse the narrower road tires will be for you if you take ANY bike with narrower tires on your current, regular rides (weather permitting).

You may decide that a 700x28-to-700x32 tire will be better for you ... most road frames will not accommodate sizes larger than 700x25, now. If you eventually decide that the slighly larger tire size is right for you, then there are some options which include CYCLOCROSS bikes.

Bianchi (amongst others, including Raleigh) makes a couple of 'flat bar' bikes which should allow for up to 700x32 tires (the EASIEST way to spot a bike which can use larger tires is to see whether or not the frame/fork will accept fenders).

Now, with regard to the Cannondale Synapse -- I have no doubt that the carbon Synapse models are great bikes; but, I personally wouldn't choose it for the type of riding which you have described despite the fact that it allows you to buy-and-ride "more bike" than you need like 90+% of the riders who participate in this Forum.

Philosophically, I have a problem with Cannondales, in general, because there has been a strong tendency to be innovative to the point of incorporating non-standard (aka "proprietary") components. THAT's not a problem for a sponsored rider OR an enthusiast who wants to buy a new bike every two-or-three years ... but, for regular folk, it can be akin to buying an Atari in a PC-compatible world way-back-when.

The problem with slugging what amounts to being a racing bike for the type of riding you are planning to do means that the Synapse will come with some nice (as in, expensive) components (e.g., shifters) which you will not be able to use with "flat" bars ...

It will cost probably you a minimum of $150 to have your LBS convert a Synapse to a "flat bar" bike -- new shifters, new bars + grips ... and, labor. If you go that route, make sure you get the take-off road bars & original shifters!

The shifters will have to be removed-and-resold (the odds of your LBS giving you what will seem to be fair credit for the shifters/derailleurs/whatever might be iffy because the true cost is much lower than the retail price) ... Shimano road shifters retail for $400+ (depending on the model) ... they sell for about half of retail on eBay.

NB. The presumably longer wheelbase on your Raleigh AND the head tube angle go a long way to making the Raleigh comfortable to ride. A shorter wheelbase and/or a steeper head tube angle may-or-may-not make ANY road bike you ride uncomfortable.

Since 'I' am one of the few people who mainly considers the frame to be something that the components are attached to, presuming the frame is size properly for the rider & is not out-of-alignment due to a crash, if you like your current frame BUT want a lighter bike, I would suggest that you compare the cost of upgrading the components (and, possibly wheels) vs. buying a new bike. MANY will suggest that it is not money well spent ... so, I would disagree if you understand that you aren't rebuilding/re-outfitting the bike for resale.

Regarding the "Cannondale Quick 2 or 3" (or, equivalent from another bike manufacturer) that you mentioned, since it is presumably for your significant other, get the nicer of the two if your budget allows it.

 

[WTOCMike]

WOW! What a great response, full of stuff for me to think about!

I'm at work now, so I'll just address a couple of your points / questions.

The Kenda Kross tires are smooth in the center, with small slits on the usual rolling surface, and the nubs along the sides. My LBS described them as "cupped" so I might have caught the wrong term. But they also called them police tires, so cops can ride easier on the street, but don't have to worry too much across grass or gravel. They are just a few months old, replacing another set of tires I wore out. They are properly inflated, I keep a pretty good eye on that, and the shop folks see me and my bike pretty regularly.

Trying the narrower tires is a GREAT idea, and I may see if I can do that. The shops have been very good to me. The shop with Cannondale salesman even strongly suggests I take a few bikes for long, typical (for me) rides, ten miles or so to get a good feel for what I'm buying.

The "Quick" was one other that they had suggested for me if I decide not to go the road bike route. The wife has a Specialized similar to my Raleigh she's hardly ridden.

Back to work, I'll come up with more later!

Thanks again!

Listen to your LBS & buy some narrower tires & tubes, FIRST, before you pony up any money on a new bike, particularly if you are keen on buying a ROAD bike whose maximum useable tire size may only be 700x25.

Now, as far as the Kenda Kross tires being cupped, they probably shouldn't be. Were they always that way? Or, have you just put on so many miles that the center has worn thin & they are cupped when they are under-inflated?
With regard to the bikes you are currently considering, I think you can test ride ANY road bike to get a sense of whether-or-not you will be happy-or-unhappy with the narrower tire size ...

For the type of riding you described, I don't think you will perceive ANY difference between two different ROAD bikes if the components & saddles are the same (and, the tires are inflated to the same PSI) except if/when you are lifting it off the ground to put it on a vehicle for transport or away in your garage/house.

Again, IMO, if you are keen to buy a ROAD bike, then I think it will be well worth your money to first buy some 700x25 tires & tubes to use on your Raleigh ... because, even if you think the test ride (hopefully, more than just in the "parking lot") of a new, road bike is satisfactory, you'll want probably have a better idea of just how much better-or-worse the narrower road tires will be for you if you take ANY bike with narrower tires on your current, regular rides (weather permitting).

You may decide that a 700x28-to-700x32 tire will be better for you ... most road frames will not accommodate sizes larger than 700x25, now. If you eventually decide that the slighly larger tire size is right for you, then there are some options which include CYCLOCROSS bikes.

Bianchi (amongst others, including Raleigh) makes a couple of 'flat bar' bikes which should allow for up to 700x32 tires (the EASIEST way to spot a bike which can use larger tires is to see whether or not the frame/fork will accept fenders).

Now, with regard to the Cannondale Synapse -- I have no doubt that the carbon Synapse models are great bikes; but, I personally wouldn't choose it for the type of riding which you have described despite the fact that it allows you to buy-and-ride "more bike" than you need like 90+% of the riders who participate in this Forum.

Philosophically, I have a problem with Cannondales, in general, because there has been a strong tendency to be innovative to the point of incorporating non-standard (aka "proprietary") components. THAT's not a problem for a sponsored rider OR an enthusiast who wants to buy a new bike every two-or-three years ... but, for regular folk, it can be akin to buying an Atari in a PC-compatible world way-back-when.

The problem with slugging what amounts to being a racing bike for the type of riding you are planning to do means that the Synapse will come with some nice (as in, expensive) components (e.g., shifters) which you will not be able to use with "flat" bars ...

It will cost probably you a minimum of $150 to have your LBS convert a Synapse to a "flat bar" bike -- new shifters, new bars + grips ... and, labor. If you go that route, make sure you get the take-off road bars & original shifters!

The shifters will have to be removed-and-resold (the odds of your LBS giving you what will seem to be fair credit for the shifters/derailleurs/whatever might be iffy because the true cost is much lower than the retail price) ... Shimano road shifters retail for $400+ (depending on the model) ... they sell for about half of retail on eBay.

NB. The presumably longer wheelbase on your Raleigh AND the head tube angle go a long way to making the Raleigh comfortable to ride. A shorter wheelbase and/or a steeper head tube angle may-or-may-not make ANY road bike you ride uncomfortable.

Since 'I' am one of the few people who mainly considers the frame to be something that the components are attached to, presuming the frame is size properly for the rider & is not out-of-alignment due to a crash, if you like your current frame BUT want a lighter bike, I would suggest that you compare the cost of upgrading the components (and, possibly wheels) vs. buying a new bike. MANY will suggest that it is not money well spent ... so, I would disagree if you understand that you aren't rebuilding/re-outfitting the bike for resale.

Regarding the "Cannondale Quick 2 or 3" (or, equivalent from another bike manufacturer) that you mentioned, since it is presumably for your significant other, get the nicer of the two if your budget allows it.

 

[WTOCMike]

Home and have too much time, and probably boring you and taking advantage of your kindness and detailed answers... but here we go...

With regard to the bikes you are currently considering, I think you can test ride ANY road bike to get a sense of whether-or-not you will be happy-or-unhappy with the narrower tire size ...

I briefly rode a road bike last weekend, but didn’t have the time just then to do anything substantial, and obviously that’s going to be a key.

Again, IMO, if you are keen to buy a ROAD bike, then I think it will be well worth your money to first buy some 700x25 tires & tubes to use on your Raleigh ... because, even if you think the test ride (hopefully, more than just in the "parking lot") of a new, road bike is satisfactory, you'll want probably have a better idea of just how much better-or-worse the narrower road tires will be for you if you take ANY bike with narrower tires on your current, regular rides (weather permitting).

I’ll ask about that this weekend. You’ve grasped the two different concerns I have on picking a new bike. Skinny wheels on my usual routes are serious, since I guess fatter tires may have me spoiled. I think the bike shop would be very willing to let me borrow anything they have for an afternoon to get an hour or so in the saddle. They suggested it on both a road bike and something like the Giant FCR 1. I did a quick around the block last weekend on that bike, and just tonight checked the specs, and realized it had 700 x 26c tires. That’s a little encouraging, since the Synapse can handle 25’s, and in that brief time the FCR 1 didn’t scare me. I think if I were clipped in, properly dressed, and on a road where I could ride a while and get comfortable, I’d feel better. I took a Cannondale Six 13 (2008) on the same short ride, and it felt less comfortable, and I checked, its tires are 700 x 23c.


You may decide that a 700x28-to-700x32 tire will be better for you ... most road frames will not accommodate sizes larger than 700x25, now. If you eventually decide that the slighly larger tire size is right for you, then there are some options which include CYCLOCROSS bikes.

I just looked at the Cannondale cyclocross bikes in the catalog, an area I don’t know anything about. Will have to see some in person and get more answers.

Bianchi (amongst others, including Raleigh) makes a couple of 'flat bar' bikes which should allow for up to 700x32 tires (the EASIEST way to spot a bike which can use larger tires is to see whether or not the frame/fork will accept fenders).

The LBS suggested those as well, the Bianchi, Jamis and Raleigh in particular but didn’t have any in the store. Sounds shallow, but the photos on line didn’t impress me. I know that’s nothing to be proud of, but if I spend $1k – $1.5k, I want something pretty good to look at as well as ride.

Now, with regard to the Cannondale Synapse -- I have no doubt that the carbon Synapse models are great bikes; but, I personally wouldn't choose it for the type of riding which you have described despite the fact that it allows you to buy-and-ride "more bike" than you need like 90+% of the riders who participate in this Forum.

You are probably right on the money here. I do tend to buy things beyond what I “need.” I could probably ride the Raleigh for years to come, but I guess I’m hoping to grow into the new bike. When I originally started the search, the LBS suggested a Bianchi that was essentially just the newer model year from the Raleigh I’m riding. Maybe a smidge better parts, but even the price was similar to what I paid for the Raleigh. I’m hoping to make an upgrade that I will notice on my rides and in my statistics.


Philosophically, I have a problem with Cannondales, in general, because there has been a strong tendency to be innovative to the point of incorporating non-standard (aka "proprietary") components. THAT's not a problem for a sponsored rider OR an enthusiast who wants to buy a new bike every two-or-three years ... but, for regular folk, it can be akin to buying an Atari in a PC-compatible world way-back-when.

You sound like me in my Mac – PC, Sony Betamax Vs. Panasonic VHS debates! BTW, I’m all PC & was VHS.

The problem with slugging what amounts to being a racing bike for the type of riding you are planning to do means that the Synapse will come with some nice (as in, expensive) components (e.g., shifters) which you will not be able to use with "flat" bars ...

It will cost probably you a minimum of $150 to have your LBS convert a Synapse to a "flat bar" bike -- new shifters, new bars + grips ... and, labor. If you go that route, make sure you get the take-off road bars & original shifters!

The shifters will have to be removed-and-resold (the odds of your LBS giving you what will seem to be fair credit for the shifters/derailleurs/whatever might be iffy because the true cost is much lower than the retail price) ... Shimano road shifters retail for $400+ (depending on the model) ... they sell for about half of retail on eBay.



Yea, have to sort out the whole bar thing. Which gets back to the real issue I can’t avoid. The neck problems. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to maintain a down low position on the bottom of the bars. I can’t point my shoulders down and crane my head up to see for any length of time, and certainly not for hours on the bike! On the hoods might work just as easily as I ride a flat bar now, keeping the advantage of the shifters & such. Bringing us to your next point…


NB. The presumably longer wheelbase on your Raleigh AND the head tube angle go a long way to making the Raleigh comfortable to ride. A shorter wheelbase and/or a steeper head tube angle may-or-may-not make ANY road bike you ride uncomfortable.

…which I’ll again have to ride to decide. The LBS showed me a full road bike ($$$) they rigged for a man who has fused vertebrae in his neck so he can keep up in very long rides, I think the one they cited was a recent charity event covering 100+ miles in a day. The key there was raising the bars higher to bring him more upright. I’m sure serious cyclists would have spotted it immediately, but it didn’t look freaky to me. A couple of shops have mentioned that kind of fix for me.

Since 'I' am one of the few people who mainly considers the frame to be something that the components are attached to, presuming the frame is size properly for the rider & is not out-of-alignment due to a crash, if you like your current frame BUT want a lighter bike, I would suggest that you compare the cost of upgrading the components (and, possibly wheels) vs. buying a new bike. MANY will suggest that it is not money well spent ... so, I would disagree if you understand that you aren't rebuilding/re-outfitting the bike for resale.

I guess my current Raleigh frame is fine. I’ve NEVER laid it down, and it’s not banged around. From what I’ve seen, adding all sorts of new components would make them worth more than the bike. You quoted the $400 figure, and that’s in the ballpark of what I paid for the whole bike! Also at that $400 figure, I’m 1/3 to ½ way to a new bike.


Regarding the "Cannondale Quick 2 or 3" (or, equivalent from another bike manufacturer) that you mentioned, since it is presumably for your significant other, get the nicer of the two if your budget allows it.

Op cit, the Quick would be an option they suggested for me, like the Giant FCR. Brings me back to shallow. Same as the flat bars they’ve pointed me to, and you mentioned in an earlier post…


Hybrids LACK any cool-factor ... they ARE essentially devolved "touring" bikes which come with mid-range (at best) components [components can be replaced/upgraded] to keep the initial LBS price as low as possible ...


I’m feeling about my bike shopping like the woman in the Cadillac commercial… to paraphrase… “…when you turn your car on… does it return the favor?”


Thanks again for your extensive, thoughtful replies.


Mike

 

[WTOCMike]

I've been slack replying, but I did have a few developments a couple weekends ago. Went to the LBS and they rigged up a Giant road bike for me, at least a partial carbon frame and 105 group.

I rode it 13 miles Sunday & 8 more Monday, all my regular routes, and the important thing NO NECK PAIN! They'd raised the stuff up high enough that I was not as aero as most folks, but I still kept control of the bike. I varried hand positions (not used to it yet, so some cramping), from the hoods to the bottom and more relaxed right on top. It would take a little getting used to, but no surprise there.

I also rode the whole time on the road, not the sidewalks, hoping for a little traffic respect. The narrow tires (23 I think) were not a problem. Coming down from 40's, a little squirrley, but much of it is me re-learning how to ride.

Did I mention it's sooooo much faster than my current ride? Shouldn't surprise anyone!

The shop ordered me a 2009 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6, and if they finish building them sometime soon, I'll ride it by the end of the year. Anyone see any of them in the stores yet?

Thanks...

 

[alfeng]

The shop ordered me a 2009 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6, and if they finish building them sometime soon, I'll ride it by the end of the year.

Post a pic of your new bike after you get it!

 

[WTOCMike]

Post a pic of your new bike after you get it!

Why? So you can laugh at my training wheels?!? I'm afraid I might need them to get used to a road bike!

 

[rparedes]

My current bike has Kenda Kross 700 x 40c @ 50 - 75 psi. They're "Cupped" tires with the usual point of contact fairly smooth, with some "slits", while the edges are nubbier to grip if the going gets deep. My LBS has suggested narrower tires if I want, but this is where we are.

I guess part of what I'm wondering is if I modified my rides a little bit, avoiding the gravel drive crossing and the dirt path shortcut, and staying on the roads & sidewalks, would the Synapse be a good choice. My LBS doesn't have one in stock yet, to get me in the saddle and make more informed decisions.

Thanks for your thoughtful response!

Try some of the "relaxed geometry" bikes: Giant OCR or now called Defy, Cannondale Synapse, Specialized Roubaix, Felt Z. Look for "tall head tube" for example: for a 56 cm frame I'd look for 190 or 200 mm head tube. You can get stems of up to 40 degree rise or get an adjustable one. Also you can customize the length of the steerer tube if it has not been cut.