New Bike Line from HostelShoppe

[Dennis Pedrick]

> You want to tell me who in Yreka, CA will sell me a Bacchetta? No one, that's who. There is no
> bike shop. It is extremely narrow minded to assume that every one has access to a local bike shop.

Given the writer has no LBS, and doesn't seem inclined to drive to the BIG CITY to go to a LBS, we
can only assume he doesn't ride a bike now, recumbent or otherwise (unless Wal-Mart has saved the
day). Why is he even bothering to complain? If you're going to spend $1000-$2000 for a bike, I'd
sure want to ride it before I bought it.

BTW, Yreka is 100 miles north of Redding, CA, and 50 miles south of Medford, OR. Surely there's at
least one LBS in one of those 2 cities.

Regards -- DP (who also lives in the sticks, and has managed to collect a trike, 2 recumbents, and 2
DFs so far -- none by mail order...picked them up while in town to pick up provisions...)

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Dennis Pedrick wrote:
>
> > You want to tell me who in Yreka, CA will sell me a Bacchetta? No one, that's who. There is
> > no bike shop. It is extremely narrow minded to assume that every one has access to a local
> > bike shop.
>
> Given the writer has no LBS, and doesn't seem inclined to drive to the BIG CITY to go to a LBS, we
> can only assume he doesn't ride a bike now, recumbent or otherwise (unless Wal-Mart has saved the
> day). Why is he even bothering to complain? If you're going to spend $1000-$2000 for a bike, I'd
> sure want to ride it before I bought it.
>
> BTW, Yreka is 100 miles north of Redding, CA, and 50 miles south of Medford, OR. Surely there's at
> least one LBS in one of those 2 cities.
>
> Regards -- DP (who also lives in the sticks, and has managed to collect a trike, 2 recumbents, and
> 2 DFs so far -- none by mail order...picked them up while in town to pick up provisions...)

I have three recumbent which I bought from companies that wanted my business, which Bacchetta
obviously doesn't, and who delivered the bikes to my door, which Bacchetta won't. This car-centric
attitude where you think everyone should be able to just jump in a car and drive a hundred miles is
one of the things that has got this country into the mess it's in today. That's a foolish thing to
do when there are so many companies willing to ship right to my home. Too bad Bacchetta doesn't want
my business.

By the way, I ride my bike to pick up provisions.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a substantial
price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual
liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter Cronkite, in the preface to
the 1984 edition of 1984

 

[Dave Larrington]

Ken Kobayashi wrote:

> FWIW many upright manufacturers have "no mail order" policies. Trek and Cannondale do, at least.

Interestingly, Cannondale pursue this policy in the UK too, but Trek don't.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Edward Wong]

"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> >
> > John, Hostellshoppe is going to be marketing their own bent version along the Bacchetta lines.
> > Why? Well if you have ever been to Hostelshoppe you would see that mail order/internet is a
> > major portion of their sales. IMO Bacchetta last year was a very good seller for them, however
> > since the Bacchetta agreement has a purchase at the shop only clause....their sales were
> > understandably not what they could have been. These bents when they exist will fit their
> > marketing model. The will still be a Bacchetta dealer on site only with the entire state of Wis.
> > as their exclusive territory. Bacchetta, is/ was much to their credit, trying to help maintain
> > their dealer base and service their customers in a on site LBS only fashion. For some purchasers
> > this works and for others it does not due to distances to a Bacchetta dealership. I plan this
> > year to offer a number of Bacchetta bike options including a choice of some colors. I will
> > attempt to keep the prices down, however, purchasers will still have to purchase on site.
> > So....there it be. My opinion based on the information I have.
>
> I'm reminded that BikeE went to the same "purchase at the shop only" policy just before they
> folded. This is a disservice to the majority of potential customers. If I wanted to buy a
> Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against? So I guess if I want a bike of that
> type, my money will go to someone else, someone willing to sell to me by mail order like
> Hostellshoppe.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression, that
> individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter Cronkite, in
> the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

I bought my Lightning T-Bolt from the Hostel Shoppe back in June of '99 and was most satisfied with
my purchase. Though I had it delievered to my LBS for assembly, the guys there told me that the bike
had arrived almost ready to go. In fact, the deraillers and brakes were already adjusted right out
of the box. The Hostel Shoppe can be trusted to buy through mail order/internet.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

 

[Ken Kobayashi]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:20:02 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have three recumbent which I bought from companies that wanted my business, which Bacchetta
>obviously doesn't, and who delivered the bikes to my door, which Bacchetta won't. This car-centric
>attitude where you think everyone should be able to just jump in a car and drive a hundred miles is
>one of the things that has got this country into the mess it's in today.

It's not car-centric to think that most people have the means to travel to a major city. In fact, I
think it's car-centric to think that car-free people cannot travel to a city. Not many car-free
people live in a place where there is no public transportation at all.

If you are an exception then, as I said, just send an e-mail to Bacchetta and explain the situation.
In my experience they are very helpful and respond quickly. A couple of e-mail exchanges is not
"jumping through the hoops" in my book.

One time I sold a used bike over the net and the buyer installed the chain incorrectly (routed in
front of the tab between the rear derailleur sprockets). Without even checking with me he decided
the bike was defective and sent it straight back, demanding a refund. If that's what typical bike
buyers are like, it's understandable that comapnies want the bikes to be sold at shops where a
technitian can assemble them properly and explain how to use them.

Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/

 

[Steve In Sc]

I think Lorenzo has raised some valid points. First, while Bacchetta's restrictive distribution may
be touted as pro-consumer, it is actually appears to be pro-dealer. Bacchetta is, in many ways,
giving their dealers exclusive selling rights in their geographic areas. This is something that I
would highly desire if I owned a LBS. Too many people test ride bikes at a LBS and then order
through the mail or the internet. This is short-sighted and ethically questionable behavior.
However, part of the dealer's markup is to cover warranty repairs and adjustments made after the
sale. I just travelled 400 miles one way to purchase a bike in Florida. Do you think I'm going back
to the dealer for a free rear derailleur adjustment? When you are compelled to buy a bike on site
from a remote location, you may be forced to "pay" for after purchase support that you can not
receive. Last year I bought a Rans VRex. At that time there were no Rans dealers in my state. I
purchased the bike, sight unseen, through the internet at a discount. Why should I pay a dealer's
full markup, if I can not get dealer support?

 

[Bill B]

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Mary, Thanks, You are correct. I had forgotten that most LBS can get you a Bacchetta. As you know
> from experience as a recumbent dealer, there are some not so apparent quirks to many of the
> brands/models we as dealers have assembeled and sold over the years. It often pays for itself to
> have the experienced eye spot that misaligned hanger or add a spacer or washer to quiet down that
> elusive noise. My wife hails from the Detroit Lakes area. Because of my small but fun to run shop,
> I don't go home with her too often. I will however be going with her for a family reunion this
> summer. I will make it a point to stop by.
>
> Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
> Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message news:BA952C1E.8AA5%[email protected]...
> > in article [email protected], Lorenzo L. Love at [email protected] wrote on 3/12/03
> > 2:24 PM:
> >
> > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against?
> >
> > Actually Lorenzo, you could. If you don't have a local Bacchetta dealer, have your shop call
> > Bacchetta to order you a bike. It's my understanding that Bacchetta has made a "no mail-order"
> > policy with dealers to ensure
> that
> > you, the consumer, will get professional service with their bicycle. It's not meant to
> > discriminate against anyone.
> >
> > In fact, while Bacchetta is growing their dealer base, you can help by ordering one through your
> > local dealer. I have no doubt that you, and your dealer will be very impressed by Bacchetta. Who
> > knows? Maybe they'll get
> the
> > courage to order a few more bikes, maybe a RANS, a Vision... now you have
> a
> > *local* recumbent dealer! How cool is that?! And all thanks to you
> ordering
> > that Strada (or was it an Aero!).
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mary Breen, happy Giro rider and loyal Bacchetta dealer
> >
> > Calhoun Cycle > Recumbent & Folding Bicycles 3342 Hennepin Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN 55408
> >
> > http://www.calhouncycle.com
> >

I would hate to order a recumbent from the bike shops in Memphis. A fellow here ordered a Vision
through a local shop that did not know diddly squat about recumbents. The shop sent the guy home
with the idlers on wrong,the seat fabric on wrong,no chain links were removed for his x seam.In
other words it was a night mare for the customer.Just because someone owns a bike shop does not make
them a recumbent guru.It also seems that shops like the above would give a bent co a bad reputation.

 

[John]

Just to keep things straight R2D2, Mark Colliton and I (John Schlitter) showed the prototypes Giro
and Corsa at the Hostel Shoppe rally 2001.

The Corsa was a carbon fork, 650c Rolf wheels with Ultrega. Rolf and I disscussed the fact
Bacchetta was going to sell frame kits and yes if he wanted to do an upspec bike he could do it. At
the time we told him we were going to hold off lanuching our Corsa until towards the end of the
first years' run.

As for Bacchetta not allowing mail order by its dealers. We are trying to help build the recumbent
segment of the bicycle industry into a reputable part of the part of this industry. One way to do
that is to show bicycle dealers across the nation that we truly support the independent bicycle
dealer. If a dealer is willing to make a comittment to Bacchetta he will get our total support. He
will also know that if a costumer comes in and does a Bacchetta demo that same costumer will not go
home and order that bike from a internet source. We have dealers that like the idea that a little
recumbent company takes the attiude of some of the big boys like Trek bicycle companys.

What does that do for you the consumer? Hopefully in the long run it gives you a dealer that is
comfortable in taking the time an effort to learn about this new segment of the bicycle industry. In
the end giving you quiality bicycle shops all around the contry like the Hostel Shoppe but those
okay with just servicing there local markets.

I come from the retail part of this business and I as a dealer apperiate bicycle companys that allow
me to compete on a level playing feild.

Bacchetta is doing great do the suppoort of our great costumers that has taken a gamble and
purchased a Bacchetta. We can't make everybody happy but we will try to at the best of our abilties.

John Schlitter Bacchetta Bicycles

 

[Emmett M. Hood]

"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> mike s wrote:
> >
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > , I'm reminded that BikeE went to the same "purchase at the shop only"
> > > policy just before they folded. This is a disservice to the majority of potential customers.
> > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against? So I guess
> > > if I want a bike of that type, my money will go to someone else, someone willing to sell to me
> > > by mail order like Hostellshoppe.
> > >
> > > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I can understand your position and don't quarrel with the affect that "on-site" sales
> > requirements may have. On the other hand, presuming you do not buy untested, that means that a
> > visit to some shop is necessary. You then use the services of the shop owner and tie up his
> > equipment. The shop owner has staff and rent he is paying. I don't think anyone would disagree
> > that he is entitled to make a profit on what he sells (none of us are in business as a hobby).
> > He is at a disadvantage to a mail order warehouse type operation who only offers a lower price
> > because he doesn't have the investment in running a shop. Also, whenever I have had a bike
> > shipped to me, no matter how meticulous the reputation of the shop, it always needs to be
> > adjusted due to the breakdown and packing. I think a manufacturer has an interest in making sure
> > its bikes are set up right and a shop which handles them on premises would, presumably, be more
> > qualified to properly set up and fit the bike to the rider than someone filling orders by mail.
> > Therefore, while an on-site policy required me to travel hundreds of miles to test ride units, I
> > don't begrudge the owners (who spent a lot of time with me) the opportunity to get his price. I
> > am sure there will be many who will now rip this position to shreds, but I think there is a
> > logical argument for this policy.
>
> I've bought four out my five bikes including three recumbents by mail or internet untested. If I
> want anything new other then a Walmart bike, I have no other choice. I've never had the slightest
> problem assembling them. If the seller knows what it is doing, the drive train is completely setup
> and adjusted and should be good right out of the box. That was the case with bikes ordered direct
> from Easy Racers and from Hostel Shoppe. I have no reason to travel hundreds of miles when there
> are dozens of manufacturers quite willing to do business with me. They will be the ones getting my
> money, not Bacchetta.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression, that
> individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter Cronkite, in
> the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

Lorenzo, I think your situation is a blessing. Your remote location allows you the luxury of
shopping the hole Bacchetta dealer base and getting the best price. Because of your situation, I
believe the dealer, of your choice, could sell and ship you a Bacchetta. I am fortunate to live in
the St.Pete., FL area and ride with John, Rich, Mark, & Mike, of Bacchetta Bikes. A better bunch of
guys are not to be found. They are dedicated to their customers and eagar to serve. This is not just
my opinion, but others I ride with feel the same way. The 26/650 models fit in real well with the DF
pace lines. The 26 & 650 wheels make them kind of 'stealthy.' Give them a call and explain you
situation. I feel sure they will work something out for you. Best of Luck! Emmett(need an Aero so I
can keep up)Hood

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ken Kobayashi wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:20:02 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I have three recumbent which I bought from companies that wanted my business, which Bacchetta
> >obviously doesn't, and who delivered the bikes to my door, which Bacchetta won't. This
> >car-centric attitude where you think everyone should be able to just jump in a car and drive a
> >hundred miles is one of the things that has got this country into the mess it's in today.
>
> It's not car-centric to think that most people have the means to travel to a major city. In fact,
> I think it's car-centric to think that car-free people cannot travel to a city. Not many car-free
> people live in a place where there is no public transportation at all.
>
> If you are an exception then, as I said, just send an e-mail to Bacchetta and explain the
> situation. In my experience they are very helpful and respond quickly. A couple of e-mail
> exchanges is not "jumping through the hoops" in my book.
>
> One time I sold a used bike over the net and the buyer installed the chain incorrectly (routed in
> front of the tab between the rear derailleur sprockets). Without even checking with me he decided
> the bike was defective and sent it straight back, demanding a refund. If that's what typical bike
> buyers are like, it's understandable that comapnies want the bikes to be sold at shops where a
> technitian can assemble them properly and explain how to use them.
>
> Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/

If you read John Schlitter's post, you'll see that it's pretty clear that they will not ship to
consumers period. This discriminatory anti-consumer policy is losing them customers. Every bike I
bought over the net came with the chain already probably installed and adjusted. Why would anyone
ship otherwise?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> > >
> > > John, Hostellshoppe is going to be marketing their own bent version along the Bacchetta lines.
> > > Why? Well if you have ever been to Hostelshoppe you would see that mail order/internet is a
> > > major portion of their sales. IMO Bacchetta last year was a very good seller for them, however
> > > since the Bacchetta agreement has a purchase at the shop only clause....their sales were
> > > understandably not what they could have been. These bents when they exist will fit their
> > > marketing model. The will still be a Bacchetta dealer on site only with the entire state of
> > > Wis. as their exclusive territory. Bacchetta, is/ was much to their credit, trying to help
> > > maintain their dealer base and service their customers in a on site LBS only fashion. For some
> > > purchasers this works and for others it does not due to distances to a Bacchetta dealership. I
> > > plan this year to offer a number of Bacchetta bike options including a choice of some colors.
> > > I will attempt to keep the prices down, however, purchasers will still have to purchase on
> > > site. So....there it be. My opinion based on the information I have.
> >
> > I'm reminded that BikeE went to the same "purchase at the shop only" policy just before they
> > folded. This is a disservice to the majority of potential customers. If I wanted to buy a
> > Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against? So I guess if I want a bike of
> > that type, my money will go to someone else, someone willing to sell to me by mail order like
> > Hostellshoppe.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> > substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression,
> > that individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter
> > Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984
>
> I bought my Lightning T-Bolt from the Hostel Shoppe back in June of '99 and was most satisfied
> with my purchase. Though I had it delievered to my LBS for assembly, the guys there told me that
> the bike had arrived almost ready to go. In fact, the deraillers and brakes were already adjusted
> right out of the box. The Hostel Shoppe can be trusted to buy through mail order/internet.
>
> Edward Wong Orlando, FL

That's my experience with the two bike I bought from Hostel Shoppe. Ready to go with only minor
assembly and with the drive training already assembled and adjusted. Why would anyone ship a bike
otherwise? I won't hesitate to buy from Hostel Shoppe again.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Steve in SC wrote:
>
> I think Lorenzo has raised some valid points. First, while Bacchetta's restrictive distribution
> may be touted as pro-consumer, it is actually appears to be pro-dealer. Bacchetta is, in many
> ways, giving their dealers exclusive selling rights in their geographic areas. This is something
> that I would highly desire if I owned a LBS. Too many people test ride bikes at a LBS and then
> order through the mail or the internet. This is short-sighted and ethically questionable behavior.
> However, part of the dealer's markup is to cover warranty repairs and adjustments made after the
> sale. I just travelled 400 miles one way to purchase a bike in Florida. Do you think I'm going
> back to the dealer for a free rear derailleur adjustment? When you are compelled to buy a bike on
> site from a remote location, you may be forced to "pay" for after purchase support that you can
> not receive. Last year I bought a Rans VRex. At that time there were no Rans dealers in my state.
> I purchased the bike, sight unseen, through the internet at a discount. Why should I pay a
> dealer's full markup, if I can not get dealer support?

Yes, it's clear that Bacchetta's loyalties lie with the dealers and not the consumers. But if they
want to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer policy and lose business and alienate consumers,
that's their problem.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Bill B wrote:
>
> "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Mary, Thanks, You are correct. I had forgotten that most LBS can get you a Bacchetta. As you
> > know from experience as a recumbent dealer, there are some not so apparent quirks to many of the
> > brands/models we as dealers have assembeled and sold over the years. It often pays for itself to
> > have the experienced eye spot that misaligned hanger or add a spacer or washer to quiet down
> > that elusive noise. My wife hails from the Detroit Lakes area. Because of my small but fun to
> > run shop, I don't go home with her too often. I will however be going with her for a family
> > reunion this summer. I will make it a point to stop by.
> >
> > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
> > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email protected]> wrote
> > in message news:BA952C1E.8AA5%[email protected]...
> > > in article [email protected], Lorenzo L. Love at [email protected] wrote on
> > > 3/12/03 2:24 PM:
> > >
> > > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against?
> > >
> > > Actually Lorenzo, you could. If you don't have a local Bacchetta dealer, have your shop call
> > > Bacchetta to order you a bike. It's my understanding that Bacchetta has made a "no mail-order"
> > > policy with dealers to ensure
> > that
> > > you, the consumer, will get professional service with their bicycle. It's not meant to
> > > discriminate against anyone.
> > >
> > > In fact, while Bacchetta is growing their dealer base, you can help by ordering one through
> > > your local dealer. I have no doubt that you, and your dealer will be very impressed by
> > > Bacchetta. Who knows? Maybe they'll get
> > the
> > > courage to order a few more bikes, maybe a RANS, a Vision... now you have
> > a
> > > *local* recumbent dealer! How cool is that?! And all thanks to you
> > ordering
> > > that Strada (or was it an Aero!).
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Mary Breen, happy Giro rider and loyal Bacchetta dealer
> > >
> > > Calhoun Cycle > Recumbent & Folding Bicycles 3342 Hennepin Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN 55408
> > >
> > > http://www.calhouncycle.com
> > >
>
> I would hate to order a recumbent from the bike shops in Memphis. A fellow here ordered a Vision
> through a local shop that did not know diddly squat about recumbents. The shop sent the guy home
> with the idlers on wrong,the seat fabric on wrong,no chain links were removed for his x seam.In
> other words it was a night mare for the customer.Just because someone owns a bike shop does not
> make them a recumbent guru.It also seems that shops like the above would give a bent co a bad
> reputation.

That's another problem. How does Bacchetta insure their dealers are even minimally competent? One of
the now out of business local dealers wasn't capable of assembling an upright properly. Should I
trust him to assemble a bike he never seen before? What does Bacchetta do when the dealer they ship
to is incompetent?

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

"Emmett M. Hood III" wrote:
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > mike s wrote:
> > >
> > > "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > "Jude T. McGloin" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > , I'm reminded that BikeE went to the same "purchase at the shop only"
> > > > policy just before they folded. This is a disservice to the majority of potential customers.
> > > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against? So I
> > > > guess if I want a bike of that type, my money will go to someone else, someone willing to
> > > > sell to me by mail order like Hostellshoppe.
> > > >
> > > > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I can understand your position and don't quarrel with the affect that "on-site" sales
> > > requirements may have. On the other hand, presuming you do not buy untested, that means that a
> > > visit to some shop is necessary. You then use the services of the shop owner and tie up his
> > > equipment. The shop owner has staff and rent he is paying. I don't think anyone would disagree
> > > that he is entitled to make a profit on what he sells (none of us are in business as a hobby).
> > > He is at a disadvantage to a mail order warehouse type operation who only offers a lower price
> > > because he doesn't have the investment in running a shop. Also, whenever I have had a bike
> > > shipped to me, no matter how meticulous the reputation of the shop, it always needs to be
> > > adjusted due to the breakdown and packing. I think a manufacturer has an interest in making
> > > sure its bikes are set up right and a shop which handles them on premises would, presumably,
> > > be more qualified to properly set up and fit the bike to the rider than someone filling orders
> > > by mail. Therefore, while an on-site policy required me to travel hundreds of miles to test
> > > ride units, I don't begrudge the owners (who spent a lot of time with me) the opportunity to
> > > get his price. I am sure there will be many who will now rip this position to shreds, but I
> > > think there is a logical argument for this policy.
> >
> > I've bought four out my five bikes including three recumbents by mail or internet untested. If I
> > want anything new other then a Walmart bike, I have no other choice. I've never had the
> > slightest problem assembling them. If the seller knows what it is doing, the drive train is
> > completely setup and adjusted and should be good right out of the box. That was the case with
> > bikes ordered direct from Easy Racers and from Hostel Shoppe. I have no reason to travel
> > hundreds of miles when there are dozens of manufacturers quite willing to do business with me.
> > They will be the ones getting my money, not Bacchetta.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> > substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression,
> > that individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter
> > Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984
>
> Lorenzo, I think your situation is a blessing. Your remote location allows you the luxury of
> shopping the hole Bacchetta dealer base and getting the best price. Because of your situation, I
> believe the dealer, of your choice, could sell and ship you a Bacchetta. I am fortunate to live in
> the St.Pete., FL area and ride with John, Rich, Mark, & Mike, of Bacchetta Bikes. A better bunch
> of guys are not to be found. They are dedicated to their customers and eagar to serve. This is not
> just my opinion, but others I ride with feel the same way. The 26/650 models fit in real well with
> the DF pace lines. The 26 & 650 wheels make them kind of 'stealthy.' Give them a call and explain
> you situation. I feel sure they will work something out for you. Best of Luck! Emmett(need an Aero
> so I can keep up)Hood

John Schlitter's post makes it pretty clear that Bacchetta will not ship to consumers period. But if
they want to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer policy and lose business and alienate
consumers, that's their problem.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Mikael Seierup]

"Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...
> If you read John Schlitter's post, you'll see that it's pretty clear that they will not ship to
> consumers period. This discriminatory anti-consumer policy is losing them customers.

Yeah, its because you're white and have a beard. ;o)

M.

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

John wrote:
>
> Just to keep things straight R2D2, Mark Colliton and I (John Schlitter) showed the prototypes Giro
> and Corsa at the Hostel Shoppe rally 2001.
>
> The Corsa was a carbon fork, 650c Rolf wheels with Ultrega. Rolf and I disscussed the fact
> Bacchetta was going to sell frame kits and yes if he wanted to do an upspec bike he could do it.
> At the time we told him we were going to hold off lanuching our Corsa until towards the end of the
> first years' run.
>
> As for Bacchetta not allowing mail order by its dealers. We are trying to help build the recumbent
> segment of the bicycle industry into a reputable part of the part of this industry. One way to do
> that is to show bicycle dealers across the nation that we truly support the independent bicycle
> dealer. If a dealer is willing to make a comittment to Bacchetta he will get our total support. He
> will also know that if a costumer comes in and does a Bacchetta demo that same costumer will not
> go home and order that bike from a internet source. We have dealers that like the idea that a
> little recumbent company takes the attiude of some of the big boys like Trek bicycle companys.
>
> What does that do for you the consumer? Hopefully in the long run it gives you a dealer that is
> comfortable in taking the time an effort to learn about this new segment of the bicycle industry.
> In the end giving you quiality bicycle shops all around the contry like the Hostel Shoppe but
> those okay with just servicing there local markets.
>
> I come from the retail part of this business and I as a dealer apperiate bicycle companys that
> allow me to compete on a level playing feild.
>
> Bacchetta is doing great do the suppoort of our great costumers that has taken a gamble and
> purchased a Bacchetta. We can't make everybody happy but we will try to at the best of our
> abilties.
>
> John Schlitter Bacchetta Bicycles

What does it do for the consumer? It screws over a lot of them. What kind of support do you give to
this consumer? Absolutely none. It is clear that Bacchetta is more concerned about the dealers than
the consumers. If you want to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer policy and lose business
and alienate consumers, go right ahead. It's your problem.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Pat]

"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" wrote:
> >
> > in article [email protected], Lorenzo L. Love at [email protected] wrote on 3/12/03
> > 2:24 PM:
> >
> > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against?
> >
> > Actually Lorenzo, you could. If you don't have a local Bacchetta dealer, have your shop call
> > Bacchetta to order you a bike. It's my understanding that Bacchetta has made a "no mail-order"
> > policy with dealers to ensure that you, the consumer, will get professional service with their
> > bicycle. It's not meant to discriminate against anyone.
> >
> > In fact, while Bacchetta is growing their dealer base, you can help by ordering one through your
> > local dealer. I have no doubt that you, and your dealer will be very impressed by Bacchetta. Who
> > knows? Maybe they'll get the courage to order a few more bikes, maybe a RANS, a Vision... now
> > you have a *local* recumbent dealer! How cool is that?! And all thanks to you ordering that
> > Strada (or was it an Aero!).
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mary Breen, happy Giro rider and loyal Bacchetta dealer
> >
> > Calhoun Cycle > Recumbent & Folding Bicycles 3342 Hennepin Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN 55408
> >
> > http://www.calhouncycle.com
>
> You want to tell me who in Yreka, CA will sell me a Bacchetta? No one, that's who. There is no
> bike shop. It is extremely narrow minded to assume that every one has access to a local bike shop.
> This policy does discriminate against me and millions who live in small towns and rural areas. I
> can not get professional or any other kind of service from Bacchetta because they refuse to sell
> to me. This is anti-consumer and bad business. Worked wonders for BikeE. So my money and the money
> of many others in small towns will go to companies who do not discriminate against us. I can get
> dozens of makes of bikes delivered to my door and I have purchased three recumbents that way. But
> I'll never buy a Bacchetta unless they change this discriminatory policy.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression, that
> individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter Cronkite, in
> the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

Lorenzo,

I would be surprised if you could not purchase a Bacchetta by having Syskiyou Cycles in Ashland OR
(up the road a piece from Yreka as you know)order it from Bacchetta. Syskiyou Cycles is a Rans
dealer and I would think that John Schlitter and Mike Wilkerson would have a pretty good knowlege of
these guys and their ability to put one of the Bacchettas together for you. I would suggest that you
contact Mike at Bacchetta.

Pat McShane

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Pat wrote:
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" wrote:
> > >
> > > in article [email protected], Lorenzo L. Love at [email protected] wrote on
> > > 3/12/03 2:24 PM:
> > >
> > > > If I wanted to buy a Bacchetta, I could not. Why should I be discriminated against?
> > >
> > > Actually Lorenzo, you could. If you don't have a local Bacchetta dealer, have your shop call
> > > Bacchetta to order you a bike. It's my understanding that Bacchetta has made a "no mail-order"
> > > policy with dealers to ensure that you, the consumer, will get professional service with their
> > > bicycle. It's not meant to discriminate against anyone.
> > >
> > > In fact, while Bacchetta is growing their dealer base, you can help by ordering one through
> > > your local dealer. I have no doubt that you, and your dealer will be very impressed by
> > > Bacchetta. Who knows? Maybe they'll get the courage to order a few more bikes, maybe a RANS, a
> > > Vision... now you have a *local* recumbent dealer! How cool is that?! And all thanks to you
> > > ordering that Strada (or was it an Aero!).
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Mary Breen, happy Giro rider and loyal Bacchetta dealer
> > >
> > > Calhoun Cycle > Recumbent & Folding Bicycles 3342 Hennepin Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN 55408
> > >
> > > http://www.calhouncycle.com
> >
> > You want to tell me who in Yreka, CA will sell me a Bacchetta? No one, that's who. There is no
> > bike shop. It is extremely narrow minded to assume that every one has access to a local bike
> > shop. This policy does discriminate against me and millions who live in small towns and rural
> > areas. I can not get professional or any other kind of service from Bacchetta because they
> > refuse to sell to me. This is anti-consumer and bad business. Worked wonders for BikeE. So my
> > money and the money of many others in small towns will go to companies who do not discriminate
> > against us. I can get dozens of makes of bikes delivered to my door and I have purchased three
> > recumbents that way. But I'll never buy a Bacchetta unless they change this discriminatory
> > policy.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > "We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and security may come at a
> > substantial price in freedom, that law and order can be a doublethink version of oppression,
> > that individual liberties surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost." Walter
> > Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984
>
> Lorenzo,
>
> I would be surprised if you could not purchase a Bacchetta by having Syskiyou Cycles in Ashland OR
> (up the road a piece from Yreka as you know)order it from Bacchetta. Syskiyou Cycles is a Rans
> dealer and I would think that John Schlitter and Mike Wilkerson would have a pretty good knowlege
> of these guys and their ability to put one of the Bacchettas together for you. I would suggest
> that you contact Mike at Bacchetta.
>
> Pat McShane

Why should I have to go to another town in another state to buy a bike when there are dozens of
manufacturers quite willing to ship right to my door? Those are the ones who will get my money, not
Bacchetta.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

[Rob Rudeski]

OK, since Lorenzo won't ask, I'll do it for him.

Dear John Schlitter,

Given Mr. Love's remote location, car-free status, and complete lack of a LBS, would you guys sell
and ship to Lorenzo, or allow Hostel Shoppe to sell and ship to Lorenzo, the Bacchetta recumbent of
his choosing? He is willing to assume all risks associated with receiving his bent through the mail
and not through a dealer. He seems reasonably competent with bicycle assembly, given that he has
already successfully assembled 3 other bents and 2 DFs, so long as you or Hostel Shoppe ship the
bike with the drive train already installed and adjusted.

Thanks in advance for your time in consideration of this matter.

Now, Lorenzo, I already know that if Bacchetta wants to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer
policy and lose business and alienate consumers, that's their problem. However, you shouldn't
assume that they WON'T ship you a bike unless you ask. Just because John stated the general policy
earlier, does not mean that there are no exceptions. You gotta ask, or the answer will always
definitely be "NO."

Rob Rudeski Trenton, GA RANS V2

<<much snippage>>

> John Schlitter's post makes it pretty clear that Bacchetta will not ship to consumers period. But
> if they want to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer policy and lose business and alienate
> consumers, that's their problem.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

 

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Rob Rudeski wrote:
>
> OK, since Lorenzo won't ask, I'll do it for him.
>
> Dear John Schlitter,
>
> Given Mr. Love's remote location, car-free status, and complete lack of a LBS, would you guys sell
> and ship to Lorenzo, or allow Hostel Shoppe to sell and ship to Lorenzo, the Bacchetta recumbent
> of his choosing? He is willing to assume all risks associated with receiving his bent through the
> mail and not through a dealer. He seems reasonably competent with bicycle assembly, given that he
> has already successfully assembled 3 other bents and 2 DFs, so long as you or Hostel Shoppe ship
> the bike with the drive train already installed and adjusted.
>
> Thanks in advance for your time in consideration of this matter.
>
> Now, Lorenzo, I already know that if Bacchetta wants to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer
> policy and lose business and alienate consumers, that's their problem. However, you shouldn't
> assume that they WON'T ship you a bike unless you ask. Just because John stated the general policy
> earlier, does not mean that there are no exceptions. You gotta ask, or the answer will always
> definitely be "NO."
>
> Rob Rudeski Trenton, GA RANS V2
>
> <<much snippage>>
>
> > John Schlitter's post makes it pretty clear that Bacchetta will not ship to consumers period.
> > But if they want to continue this discriminatory anti-consumer policy and lose business and
> > alienate consumers, that's their problem.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

They say they won't and I take them at their word. If they want to make it their official policy to
ship direct to EVERYONE who doesn't have a local bike dealer, they can say so. They won't be
shipping to me because they already ****** me off and there are far too many competitors who's first
priority is their consumer's satisfaction not their dealers, but maybe they can avoid losing other
customers.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip