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MLB wrote:
>
> I'd just like to put them [Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney] in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and
> point to their spot on the front > line.

I would prefer to send them to clean up "collateral damage", i.e. picking up the burned and bloody
body parts of innocent children, women, and men who are killed in unnecessary wars.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who
has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle -
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
 
> > I think you should fire more "patriots." Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney comes to mind.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on the
> front line.

well, that's not gonna happen because (as I've pointed out before,) these guys are CHICKENHAWKS.
they, and the rest of the military/industrial crowd that dubya surrounds himself with, don't have
the stones to put their bodies where their ideology is. that's a job for the children of the poor
and middle classes.

rich (got in 8 miles tonight before the rain started)
 
[email protected] (mike rocole) wrote in message >
> You know Scott lets say you are right! One Patriot missle knocked one scub form the sky and
> diverted two others. If that one scud would have hit its target how many people would have died?
> Do you accept that one person should die. Again if you support the men and women of the military
> than is it accpetable to put price on thier safety?

What I'd like, Mike, is some honesty from the military contractors that receieve unspeakable amounts
of our money--too much of it wasted. I can dig up many more documents on this, and, dang it, I'd be
right again. We do, however, put a price on life all the time, sad to say. Would you advocate
spending ANYTHING for marginal gains in safety? Run with this for a moment. How about, say, $5
million per soldier? Is that acceptable? Well, if we'd spend ANYTHING, why stop there? Why not a
billion? Let's bankrupt the country, okay? We've got a great military, no doubt about it. I suspect
this conflict will be over quickly and, I pray, with a minimal loss of life on both sides (Sorry,
Iragis are people, too). This doesn't mean we should be skeptical of massive spending programs and
wasted dollars. Or do you really want our children saddled with decades of unpaid bills? These
massive deficits have a habit of hanging around for a while. Maybe you like higher taxes. Not me.

I'm gettin' on my 'bent.

Later, Scott

>
> Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals that are
> protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that? I suppose you believe that we should cut the
> defense budget further? I feel the President of the United States should protect my freedoms and
> my family form attacks. The game changed on September 11th the war has come to us and we have to
> squash any one who may bring harm to us or our families. Do you feel that your writing skills are
> far superior? Personal attacks are the way you go when you have nothing of substance to
> contribute, because you Tom, are small minded and will,not debate but you will start name calling.
>
> I support our men and women of the US MIlitary and I support our President just as supported the
> action Bill CLinton took in bombing Iraq and Kosovo.
>
> Where were nay of you when President CLinton took to bombing?
>
> "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me."
>
> GOD Bless this United States of America and ALL of our people.
 
> [1] PNAC includes Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, I Lewis Libby,
> William J Bennett, Zalmay Khalilzad, Eliot Abrahms, Richard Armitage, William Kristol, Jeb
> Bush, and Robert Zoellick
>
> Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant Curmudgeon Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

chickenhawks- all of 'em

rich
 
MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing (warmonger)
> spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war and spending HUGE
> sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that don't you understand?
> >
> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals that
> > are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?

Well again if this was a program to "save the children " you would most likely say "spend any
amount because we if we can save one life you cannot put price on that". So why wouldn't that apply
to the weopons to protect our troops and the men women and children that Sadam will target. Surely
you ar enot suggesting that we could spend too much money to save a life? Are these lives not worth
the money spent on defense are your freedoms and your families security not worth the money spent
on defense?

I didin't say anything about the economy. You are the economy, I am the economy, we are the ones who
control it by buying new bikes, cloths, and inventing new products. Give me some additonal
disposable income and I will do every thing I can to help this economy. Heck I might even buy one of
those new Stalleto's from Fast Freddy (nice bike by the way should make an excellant touring bike).

Were do you get this "Right Wing" what is a "right winger"?
 
MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "MLB" skrev...
> >> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing (warmonger)
> >> spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war and spending
> >> HUGE sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that don't you
> >> understand?
> >> >
> >> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals
> >> > that are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?
> >
> > I think you should fire more "patriots." Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney comes to mind.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on the
> front line.

They all served thier time. Certainly none of us would want to be in the position that these men are
in. Would we.
 
[email protected] (John Riley) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > The "Project for a New American Century" (PNAC) [1] calls for de facto rule of the rest of the
> > world by the United States of America,....[...]
>
> I thought this was some sort of joke. Well, not the kind I thought:
>
> http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

No jokes when it comes to war. Tom what kind of **** are you reading that is so "out there".
 
[email protected] (mike rocole) wrote in news:[email protected]:

> MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing (warmonger)
>> spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war and spending HUGE
>> sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that don't you understand?
>> >
>> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals that
>> > are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?
>
> Well again if this was a program to "save the children " you would most likely say "spend any
> amount because we if we can save one life you cannot put price on that". So why wouldn't that
> apply to the weopons to protect our troops and the men women and children that Sadam will target.
> Surely you ar enot suggesting that we could spend too much money to save a life? Are these lives
> not worth the money spent on defense are your freedoms and your families security not worth the
> money spent on defense?
>
> I didin't say anything about the economy. You are the economy, I am the economy, we are the ones
> who control it by buying new bikes, cloths, and inventing new products. Give me some additonal
> disposable income and I will do every thing I can to help this economy. Heck I might even buy
> one of those new Stalleto's from Fast Freddy (nice bike by the way should make an excellant
> touring bike).
>
> Were do you get this "Right Wing" what is a "right winger"?
>

ell again if this was a program to "save the children " you would
> most likely say "spend any amount because we if we can save one life you cannot put price on that"

Left wing

Surely you ar enot suggesting that we could spend
> too much money to save a life? Are these lives not worth the money spent on defense are your
> freedoms and your families security not worth the money spent on defense?

Right wing

You give awfully good examples for someone that claims to not know the difference.
 
mike rocole wrote:
>
> MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> > >
> > > "MLB" skrev...
> > >> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing
> > >> (warmonger) spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war
> > >> and spending HUGE sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that
> > >> don't you understand?
> > >> >
> > >> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals
> > >> > that are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?
> > >
> > > I think you should fire more "patriots." Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney comes to mind.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on
> > the front line.
>
> They all served thier time. Certainly none of us would want to be in the position that these men
> are in. Would we.

Bush II was in an Air National Guard champagne squadron for the sons of rich and powerful people
where he had no chance of combat. Even with this cushy assignment, he was still AWOL for many of his
drills, maybe for a year at a time. But, being the son of an influential national politician, that
was winked at.

**** Cheney - no military service.

Don Rumsfeld - no military service.

John Ashcroft - no military service.

Trent Lott, no military service.

Richard Perle - no military service.

Paul Wolfowitz - no military service.

Newt Gingrich - no military service.

Charles Krauthammer - no military service.

William Kristol - no military service.

Bill O'Reilly - no military service.

George Will - no military service.

Ken Adelman - no military service.

Rush Limbaugh - no military service.

Chickenhawks every one.

FCC Lorenzo L. Love, USN (Ret)
 
Nice to see that they've had a sudden policy change, though, at least if the example of a White
House talking head spied on the haunted fishtank last night was anything to go by. He went to great
lengths to tell us about how it would official policy to let the people of Iraq govern themselves,
which is clearly a major U-turn. Otherwise there wouldn't have been all this fuss about France. Or
General Pinochet.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
[email protected] (Scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (mike rocole) wrote in message >
> > You know Scott lets say you are right! One Patriot missle knocked one scub form the sky and
> > diverted two others. If that one scud would have hit its target how many people would have died?
> > Do you accept that one person should die. Again if you support the men and women of the military
> > than is it accpetable to put price on thier safety?
>
> What I'd like, Mike, is some honesty from the military contractors that receieve unspeakable
> amounts of our money--too much of it wasted. I can dig up many more documents on this, and, dang
> it, I'd be right again. We do, however, put a price on life all the time, sad to say. Would you
> advocate spending ANYTHING for marginal gains in safety? Run with this for a moment. How about,
> say, $5 million per soldier? Is that acceptable? Well, if we'd spend ANYTHING, why stop there? Why
> not a billion? Let's bankrupt the country, okay? We've got a great military, no doubt about it. I
> suspect this conflict will be over quickly and, I pray, with a minimal loss of life on both sides
> (Sorry, Iragis are people, too). This doesn't mean we should be skeptical of massive spending
> programs and wasted dollars. Or do you really want our children saddled with decades of unpaid
> bills? These massive deficits have a habit of hanging around for a while. Maybe you like higher
> taxes. Not me.
>
> I'm gettin' on my 'bent.
>
> Later, Scott
>
Scott,

Right again? I ma not worried about right or wrong in this discussion. On the above i agree with
some of your assessments. I agree accountability. The fact is that we have way to much Government
now more rgulation that would creat excpetional grid lock in trying to police the spending would
be even more costly. So on this we are in agreement that better methods of pruchasing said items
is needed. That problem is not Republican or Democratic it is both are equally to blame. Taxes
saddle us with more debt etc. again this is not a Democratic or Republican problem both spend
foolishly but not just on defense but on many programs. But given the choice to have more of the
money i earn in my pocket? I'll take my money yes my money, But if other seems inclined to give
there to the politicians to **** away that is thier choice if they are the majority then I guess I
will have to go along.

Tom Sherman:

Nice quotes you really have problem with "Right wingers" and the current administration so to have
further correspondence with you is futile. Why? You are so wrapped up in your belief's emotionally
that you cannot debate with reason, just emotion.

Soon the people of Iraq will be liberated and they will rejoice and an immenant threat will be
removed from power. Yes then if we have to move on o the next threat I am glad we have the
leadership with guts to make those tough decisions to protect your and my rear end so we can tool
around on our bents back here in the FREE and Secure USA.

If I am Right Wing then what is Left wing?

Name calling again Are you guys are really that mean spirited. DO you hate me for what i beleive
because i do not hate you. I find you interesting and your views interesting but I do not hate you.

Well to debate this further is a waste of time it has begun.

Oh one more thing it's my typing skills they really do suck and I have to get to work so I hope you
all have a great day and may God bless you.
 
Hi, Tom, you say, " so we may yet all end up as "Americans"."

Actually, wouldn't it be more correct to say Africans?

Science tells us that life began in Africa and scientists have traced markers in the DNA code of
people, all the way from Africa, up through Europe, across the Bering Strait and then all the way
down into south America.

Lewis. (The blue eyed African American from England)

http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html

*****************

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Dave Larrington wrote:
> >
> > Mike Rocole displays a fundamental lack of clue in writing:
> >
> > > yes we all are Americans....
>
> The "Project for a New American Century" (PNAC) [1] calls for de facto rule of the rest of the
> world by the United States of America, so we may yet all end up as "Americans". However, there
> will be around 280,000 first class Americans, 280,000,000 second class Americans, and 5.8 billion
> third class Americans.
>
> [1] PNAC includes Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, I Lewis Libby,
> William J Bennett, Zalmay Khalilzad, Eliot Abrahms, Richard Armitage, William Kristol, Jeb
> Bush, and Robert Zoellick
>
> Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant Curmudgeon Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "MLB" skrev...
> >> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing (warmonger)
> >> spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war and spending
> >> HUGE sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that don't you
> >> understand?
> >> >
> >> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals
> >> > that are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?
> >
> > I think you should fire more "patriots." Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney comes to mind.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on the
> front line.

Who wears fatigues? They haven't been around for many years.
 
"Lorenzo L. Love" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> mike rocole wrote:
> >
> > MLB <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > > news:[email protected]:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "MLB" skrev...
> > > >> I think he's refering to the claims that the missiles were so effective (right wing
> > > >> (warmonger) spin) when in fact they were anything but effective. Right wingers support war
> > > >> and spending HUGE sums of money on the military to prop up the economy. What part of that
> > > >> don't you understand?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Tom- Right wing? Why is that right wing? I want the best protection for our guys and gals
> > > >> > that are protecting our freedom. What's wrong with that?
> > > >
> > > > I think you should fire more "patriots." Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney comes to mind.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on
> > > the front line.
> >
> > They all served thier time. Certainly none of us would want to be in the position that these men
> > are in. Would we.
>
> Bush II was in an Air National Guard champagne squadron for the sons of rich and powerful people
> where he had no chance of combat. Even with this cushy assignment, he was still AWOL for many of
> his drills, maybe for a year at a time. But, being the son of an influential national politician,
> that was winked at.
>
> **** Cheney - no military service.
>
> Don Rumsfeld - no military service.
>
> John Ashcroft - no military service.
>
> Trent Lott, no military service.
>
> Richard Perle - no military service.
>
> Paul Wolfowitz - no military service.
>
> Newt Gingrich - no military service.
>
> Charles Krauthammer - no military service.
>
> William Kristol - no military service.
>
> Bill O'Reilly - no military service.
>
> George Will - no military service.
>
> Ken Adelman - no military service.
>
> Rush Limbaugh - no military service.
>
> Chickenhawks every one.
>
> FCC Lorenzo L. Love, USN (Ret)

Well I'm not sure of your point, maybe it is you dislike conservatives? If so remember the key
decision-makers in the last administration had even less military experience and that didn't
stop them from making wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc. It did prevent the peace activists from
protesting though.

Also, get it right, as a Navy man you should know Don Rumsfeld was one of your own--he served active
duty as a Navy Aviator and many years in the ready reserves. He also was also serving in the
Pentagon when it was attacked.

BTW, it is sure nice to ride a bike to base these days because you don't have to wait in those
long lines.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >
> > I'd just like to put them in some fatigues, hand them their rifle, and point to their spot on
> > the front line.
>
> Who wears fatigues? They haven't been around for many years.
>
What do you call them???

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/24/95030.shtml

U.S. Troops Lack Uniforms NewsMax.com Wires Friday, Jan. 24, 2003 FORT HOOD, Texas – The 16,400
troops of the Army's 4th Infantry Division might deploy for possible combat in green fatigues
because they don't have enough of the sand-colored camouflage uniforms used in desert warfare.
Preparations have been under way at the nation's largest Army post since Monday when orders were
received. Maj. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, division commander, says his troops are ready for their
assignment, although they are short on the uniforms.

"We will deploy in our green fatigues because we don't have enough of the desert fatigues in stock
for everyone in the task force," he told the Dallas Morning News. "It is my call. We want everyone
to dress the same. We can clearly do our job wherever we go, no matter what uniform we're wearing."

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
> Who wears fatigues? They haven't been around for many years.
>

I thought they were all fatigues, camo or otherwise?
 
Tom, I may be opening a can of worms, but hear goes. Throughout the media, I continue to observe the
use of certain labels (left wing, right wing, ect.) to generically categorize and/or associate large
groups of individuals with a core philosophy that is almost always contrary to the labeler's core
beliefs. By your posting, it's clear to me that you have decided to at least associate Mike R. with
the label of 'right wing'. In following this thread, it's also clear that you and Mike R. have very
diverse views on the military as well as the politics of the day. What I find not so clear is the
following:

(1) How do you define 'right wing'?
(2) How did you come to identify Mike R. as 'right wing' so quickly?

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Right on some issues, left on others, but never to be lumped with one or the other!
 
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