D
David Arditti
Guest
Some interesting points here, to which I'd like to add my ha'pennyworth, as a dedicated, long time
user of flat bars. By flat bars, I mean those which are swept back slightly so that the grips are
about 20 - 30 degrees back from the perpendicular to the line of the bike, i.e. old-fashioned "all
rounder" bars.
>What I can't work out is whether the opinions
>> given are out of genuine conviction or whether as perpetuation of a sacred cow.
>
> Well, it's the result of a lot of experience from a lot of riders. Look at audax rides: most bikes
> fit a certain pattern. Leather saddles and drop bars very much in evidence
I am not an Audax rider, and not a very fast rider, and have not done more than 70 miles in a day in
recent times. However, I find that for this sort of distance, my flat bars remain perfectly
comfortable. I have tried drops and butterflies, but they just don't suit me, for complicated
reasons I will try to explain later. The thing that strikes me is that my physiology is not
exceptional, indeed, my girlfriend calls me Mr Average, therefore, though everyone is different, it
seems to me there must be many people cycling moderate touring distances who would equally find
traditional flat bars best suited to their needs, but you don'ts see many in touring and audax
circles. So I wonder whether it is all "a lot of experience from a lot of riders", or, to a certain
extent, people fitting in with a crowd, or doing what they are advised to, putting up with
discomfort (the changing hand positions idea, to get cope through different, alternating,
discomforts) and not experimenting for themselves.
> Not to say flat bars can't be comfortable, but the rest position of the hands is flat against the
> sides of the body, so it wouldn't be too surprising if bars which allowed the wrists to stay more
> or less in that orientation would be more comfortable.
Agreed that in line with the bike is, theoretically, the most natural relaxed position for the
hands. However, this is only the case with drops when using them in two ways:
(a) Hands on the drops or,
(b) Hands on the hoods
My problem with (a) is that I find this uncomfortable, with too much weight on the hands and strain
on the neck, together with reduced visibility of what is going on around, to use for long. This
appears to be the case for everyone else as well, as even the fast tourists I see seem to use the
drops very little.
That leaves position (b). My problem with this is that my hands dislike operating the brake leavers
from this position. I find the "thumb round the hood" position puts pressure on the thumb joint (I
am a pianist) which is more or less tiresome depending on the exact design of the hoods (modern ones
seem best), but is always there.
There are two other positions which can be used on drop bars:
(c) On the flat straight inner part of the bar and
(d) on the curve towards the hoods
Both these I would not use much because I am a cautious chap, who has had no injurious crashes for
20 years, and would like to keep it that way. Hence I do not want to be away from the brake leavers.
Also, I change gear all the time, so want to be on the gear controls (if they are on the bars at
all). These considerations would only not apply for rural riding in flat country on straight and
very clear roads.
As regards comfort, position (c) cannot be ideal because it implies an outward twist of the wrist,
pushing the thumb joint into the bar (this also is the case with mountain bike-style straight bars
and butterfly bars). But on drops, I find there is the additional issue that this places the hands
close together, which is not good for control, and produces a more hunched shoulder position which
is probably more aerodynamic, but less healthy.
Position (d) reduces the narrowness of the grip, but twists the wrists even more outward.
So I find the ideal for me is the compromise of the 20 - 30 degree sweep back, which angles the
fingers outwards and relieves pressure on the thumb joint, also allowing easy and strong braking. Of
course, this means that most of the time I am more upright than many tourists like to be. However,
you can still set the bars rather low if you want (stem and frame allowing), and you can still get
down into the wind temporarily by bending your elbows. This I find more comfortable than getting
down on drops.
The "variety of hand position" arguments doesn't ring true to me. I think I have found an optimum
which I can go for a long time with, and seems better than constantly squirming and restlessly
alternating between the four non-ideal positions on drop bars, uncomfortable and unsatisfactory in
their various different ways. I do slightly alter the position on the straight bars from time to
time on a long ride, and relax the arm, wrists and shoulders occasionally by means such as riding at
finger-tip or with one hand, where the going is easy.
It seems to me like playing a musical instrument. Professional pianists, violinists etc. do not find
the need to alternate different ways of sitting or holding the instrument even when practicing for
many hours on end. They have found the optimum which gives comfort for a long period, and make only
small adjustments on it.
I suppose audax riders have other aims than comfort, and so these arguments will apply less to
them than to more relaxed touring cyclists. However, my other point is that I think straight bars
are safer.
I am currently experimenting with butterfly bars on one of my bikes, and different settings for
those, so maybe I will have altered my opinions after more experience, but I don't expect so.
I am just left with very unfashionable-looking bikes with old-fashioned handlebars, but who cares
about fashion?
More than a ha'pennyworth, I fear, but it seems a complicated issue which you don't see discussed
very much. Happy riding, whatever you choose.
David Arditti
user of flat bars. By flat bars, I mean those which are swept back slightly so that the grips are
about 20 - 30 degrees back from the perpendicular to the line of the bike, i.e. old-fashioned "all
rounder" bars.
>What I can't work out is whether the opinions
>> given are out of genuine conviction or whether as perpetuation of a sacred cow.
>
> Well, it's the result of a lot of experience from a lot of riders. Look at audax rides: most bikes
> fit a certain pattern. Leather saddles and drop bars very much in evidence
I am not an Audax rider, and not a very fast rider, and have not done more than 70 miles in a day in
recent times. However, I find that for this sort of distance, my flat bars remain perfectly
comfortable. I have tried drops and butterflies, but they just don't suit me, for complicated
reasons I will try to explain later. The thing that strikes me is that my physiology is not
exceptional, indeed, my girlfriend calls me Mr Average, therefore, though everyone is different, it
seems to me there must be many people cycling moderate touring distances who would equally find
traditional flat bars best suited to their needs, but you don'ts see many in touring and audax
circles. So I wonder whether it is all "a lot of experience from a lot of riders", or, to a certain
extent, people fitting in with a crowd, or doing what they are advised to, putting up with
discomfort (the changing hand positions idea, to get cope through different, alternating,
discomforts) and not experimenting for themselves.
> Not to say flat bars can't be comfortable, but the rest position of the hands is flat against the
> sides of the body, so it wouldn't be too surprising if bars which allowed the wrists to stay more
> or less in that orientation would be more comfortable.
Agreed that in line with the bike is, theoretically, the most natural relaxed position for the
hands. However, this is only the case with drops when using them in two ways:
(a) Hands on the drops or,
(b) Hands on the hoods
My problem with (a) is that I find this uncomfortable, with too much weight on the hands and strain
on the neck, together with reduced visibility of what is going on around, to use for long. This
appears to be the case for everyone else as well, as even the fast tourists I see seem to use the
drops very little.
That leaves position (b). My problem with this is that my hands dislike operating the brake leavers
from this position. I find the "thumb round the hood" position puts pressure on the thumb joint (I
am a pianist) which is more or less tiresome depending on the exact design of the hoods (modern ones
seem best), but is always there.
There are two other positions which can be used on drop bars:
(c) On the flat straight inner part of the bar and
(d) on the curve towards the hoods
Both these I would not use much because I am a cautious chap, who has had no injurious crashes for
20 years, and would like to keep it that way. Hence I do not want to be away from the brake leavers.
Also, I change gear all the time, so want to be on the gear controls (if they are on the bars at
all). These considerations would only not apply for rural riding in flat country on straight and
very clear roads.
As regards comfort, position (c) cannot be ideal because it implies an outward twist of the wrist,
pushing the thumb joint into the bar (this also is the case with mountain bike-style straight bars
and butterfly bars). But on drops, I find there is the additional issue that this places the hands
close together, which is not good for control, and produces a more hunched shoulder position which
is probably more aerodynamic, but less healthy.
Position (d) reduces the narrowness of the grip, but twists the wrists even more outward.
So I find the ideal for me is the compromise of the 20 - 30 degree sweep back, which angles the
fingers outwards and relieves pressure on the thumb joint, also allowing easy and strong braking. Of
course, this means that most of the time I am more upright than many tourists like to be. However,
you can still set the bars rather low if you want (stem and frame allowing), and you can still get
down into the wind temporarily by bending your elbows. This I find more comfortable than getting
down on drops.
The "variety of hand position" arguments doesn't ring true to me. I think I have found an optimum
which I can go for a long time with, and seems better than constantly squirming and restlessly
alternating between the four non-ideal positions on drop bars, uncomfortable and unsatisfactory in
their various different ways. I do slightly alter the position on the straight bars from time to
time on a long ride, and relax the arm, wrists and shoulders occasionally by means such as riding at
finger-tip or with one hand, where the going is easy.
It seems to me like playing a musical instrument. Professional pianists, violinists etc. do not find
the need to alternate different ways of sitting or holding the instrument even when practicing for
many hours on end. They have found the optimum which gives comfort for a long period, and make only
small adjustments on it.
I suppose audax riders have other aims than comfort, and so these arguments will apply less to
them than to more relaxed touring cyclists. However, my other point is that I think straight bars
are safer.
I am currently experimenting with butterfly bars on one of my bikes, and different settings for
those, so maybe I will have altered my opinions after more experience, but I don't expect so.
I am just left with very unfashionable-looking bikes with old-fashioned handlebars, but who cares
about fashion?
More than a ha'pennyworth, I fear, but it seems a complicated issue which you don't see discussed
very much. Happy riding, whatever you choose.
David Arditti
