New brake pads too close to rim

[Iain Dalton]

I have a very old Univega Viva Sport with Dia Compe side-pull
cantilever brakes. This bike is so old (around 17 years, I think) that
the pads have hardened to uselessness. I bought Kool Stop Eagle 2 pads
to replace them, but they are so thick that they push snugly against
the rims when not braking. How do I pull the calipers apart to give
the pads room?

 

[Blair P. Houghton]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> I have a very old Univega Viva Sport with Dia Compe side-pull
> cantilever brakes. This bike is so old (around 17 years, I think) that
> the pads have hardened to uselessness. I bought Kool Stop Eagle 2 pads
> to replace them, but they are so thick that they push snugly against
> the rims when not braking. How do I pull the calipers apart to give
> the pads room?

Are they too close even when there is no cable attached to the
caliper at all? If not, you can adjust the length of the cable to
reach a happy medium when the levers are not depressed.

Otherwise, you're asking for a hard thing. to bend forged calipers,
given that they're designed to resist bending under the sort of
load you need to bend them. So if it's not a matter of cable
adjustment, you should probably get some pads that aren't so big.

--Blair

 

[Iain Dalton]

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> Are they too close even when there is no cable attached to the
> caliper at all? If not, you can adjust the length of the cable to
> reach a happy medium when the levers are not depressed.
>
> Otherwise, you're asking for a hard thing. to bend forged calipers,
> given that they're designed to resist bending under the sort of
> load you need to bend them. So if it's not a matter of cable
> adjustment, you should probably get some pads that aren't so big.

These are my brakes:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.

I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!

 

[Rick]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> I have a very old Univega Viva Sport with Dia Compe side-pull
> cantilever brakes. This bike is so old (around 17 years, I think) that
> the pads have hardened to uselessness. I bought Kool Stop Eagle 2 pads
> to replace them, but they are so thick that they push snugly against
> the rims when not braking. How do I pull the calipers apart to give
> the pads room?

Part of the problem is your misunderstanding. The brakes you have are
not cantilever brakes, they are single-pivot side-pull calipers. You
bought the wrong brake pads. You might be able to release enough cable
to get them to work, but if it were me I would just go out and get some
Kool Stop Continentals. Those are the appropriate pads for your
brakes. Last sets I bought, a couple of years ago, ran about $8/wheel.

- rick

 

[Blair P. Houghton]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> These are my brakes:
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
> loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.

Those calipers are, coincidentally, identical to mine.

> I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
> look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
> reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
> please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!

Rick nailed it. I think you got the wrong type of pads for your bike.

I wouldn't sweat "performance" ratings too much. Unless the pads
are totally dissed in the tests, you'll be more than able to apply
enough hand pressure to lock them up, and you'll adapt to the range
of pressure needed to keep them from locking up, in several hand
positions.

But, in a pinch, if you really, really had to, you could release that
lever on the right hand side. It's meant to open the calipers so you
can remove the wheel, but in your case I bet that's impossible with
those pads on anyway, so riding with it open will just give you more
clearance.

But you shouldn't have to. You should trade those pads in for anything
you can get that's just a rectangular piece of metal with a stud and a
pad
on it.

--Blair

 

[Werehatrack]

On 4 Aug 2006 13:10:18 -0700, "Iain Dalton" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>These are my brakes:
><http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
>loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.
>
>I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
>look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
>reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
>please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!

The other advice already gave you the hints you need most. I'll add
that in rehabbing bikes, I've found that replacing the brake cables
(with good, lined housing and smooth-drawn stainless cores, by
preference) often will make more of a difference in brake effect than
replacing the pads on such a setup, even when the old pads were little
more than shrunken black rocks rattling around in a stamped metal
holder.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[landotter]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
> > Are they too close even when there is no cable attached to the
> > caliper at all? If not, you can adjust the length of the cable to
> > reach a happy medium when the levers are not depressed.
> >
> > Otherwise, you're asking for a hard thing. to bend forged calipers,
> > given that they're designed to resist bending under the sort of
> > load you need to bend them. So if it's not a matter of cable
> > adjustment, you should probably get some pads that aren't so big.
>
> These are my brakes:
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
> loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.
>
> I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
> look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
> reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
> please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!

If you live in a major city with a craiglist, then flog them on there
for a twenty, I routinely clear out excess parts bucket detritus, and
there are always folks wanting a good deal. Use that money to get some
Kool Stop Continentals, which are even cheaper, and meant for older
caliper brakes like that.

Alternately, use the money towards some of the Nashbar/Tektro long
reach brakes, I think they're still on sale for 20-30 bucks, and they
come with pretty decent pads.

If you decide to get some of the Continentals, post back, as I've got
some I can measure in the garage, to see if they'll fit for ya. Likely
they'll fit just fine.

Third and stupidest option, but something this lugnut would do, is use
an electric sander to reduce the thickness of the pad. Only works if
it's a mm or so of material you need gone. I often use my sander when
working on old bikes to bring up fresh soft rubber when I can't be
arsed to sort new pads.

 

[Iain Dalton]

Rick wrote:

> Iain Dalton wrote:
> > I have a very old Univega Viva Sport with Dia Compe side-pull
> > cantilever brakes.
>
> Part of the problem is your misunderstanding. The brakes you have are
> not cantilever brakes, they are single-pivot side-pull calipers. You
> bought the wrong brake pads.

I confused "caliper" with "cantilever" (which sound entirely too
alike). I am pretty sure I bought caliper brakes. The package says
"for all threaded stem brake systems."

 

[Rick]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
> > Iain Dalton wrote:
> > > I have a very old Univega Viva Sport with Dia Compe side-pull
> > > cantilever brakes.
> >
> > Part of the problem is your misunderstanding. The brakes you have are
> > not cantilever brakes, they are single-pivot side-pull calipers. You
> > bought the wrong brake pads.
>
> I confused "caliper" with "cantilever" (which sound entirely too
> alike). I am pretty sure I bought caliper brakes. The package says
> "for all threaded stem brake systems."

I do not have a package here, but the Eagle 2 pads are designed form
cantilevers and some center pull calipers, not {single|dual} pivot
calipers. They can work on some of the calipers, but if you have
clearance problems (which you have) it is better to use the Kool Stop
Continental. An easy solution to your problem, really, and for only
$8/wheel (Sheldon calls them "best value in the Kool Stop line", Jobst
rides with them, they are basically great brake shoes/pads).

- rick

- rick

 

[Rick]

landotter wrote:
> Iain Dalton wrote:
> > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >
>
>
> If you live in a major city with a craiglist, then flog them on there
> for a twenty, I routinely clear out excess parts bucket detritus, and
> there are always folks wanting a good deal. Use that money to get some
> Kool Stop Continentals, which are even cheaper, and meant for older
> caliper brakes like that.
>
> Alternately, use the money towards some of the Nashbar/Tektro long
> reach brakes, I think they're still on sale for 20-30 bucks, and they
> come with pretty decent pads.
>
> If you decide to get some of the Continentals, post back, as I've got
> some I can measure in the garage, to see if they'll fit for ya. Likely
> they'll fit just fine.
>
> Third and stupidest option, but something this lugnut would do, is use
> an electric sander to reduce the thickness of the pad. Only works if
> it's a mm or so of material you need gone. I often use my sander when
> working on old bikes to bring up fresh soft rubber when I can't be
> arsed to sort new pads.

Sanding is not such an obscure option, but it is usually done without
electricity. Brake pad sanders are available: http://tinyurl.com/nyvdp

- rick

 

[landotter]

Rick wrote:
An easy solution to your problem, really, and for only
> $8/wheel (Sheldon calls them "best value in the Kool Stop line", Jobst
> rides with them, they are basically great brake shoes/pads).

$8 plus $4 shipping from the CycleDirect ebay store--for two packs of
the grey ones. Bought from that guy before, super fast shipping:

http://tinyurl.com/emm4v

He never has a "buy me now" button for some silly reason. so you always
have to wait till the auction runs its course.

 

[[email protected]]

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> Iain Dalton wrote:
> > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > These are my brakes:
> > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
> > loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.
>
> Those calipers are, coincidentally, identical to mine.
>
> > I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
> > look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
> > reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
> > please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!
>
> Rick nailed it. I think you got the wrong type of pads for your bike.
> ...
> But you shouldn't have to. You should trade those pads in for anything
> you can get that's just a rectangular piece of metal with a stud and a
> pad
> on it.

I have a pair of Eagle 2 threaded stud pads here (not
cantilever pads). They are a mm or two thinner than an
ancient pair of Diacompe threaded pads, like what the
OE pads on that bike would have been before 17 years
of wear. The OP's pads should work.

Possibly the problem is that the brake is not really open
all the way in the pictures. When it is really open to the
max, the arm with the cable fixing bolt will hit against the
part that holds the pad. You need to detach the cable
from the fixing bolt to do this, since the adjuster is already
screwed in all the way.

 

[RonSonic]

On 4 Aug 2006 17:54:23 -0700, "Rick" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>landotter wrote:
>> Iain Dalton wrote:
>> > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> >
>>
>>
>> If you live in a major city with a craiglist, then flog them on there
>> for a twenty, I routinely clear out excess parts bucket detritus, and
>> there are always folks wanting a good deal. Use that money to get some
>> Kool Stop Continentals, which are even cheaper, and meant for older
>> caliper brakes like that.
>>
>> Alternately, use the money towards some of the Nashbar/Tektro long
>> reach brakes, I think they're still on sale for 20-30 bucks, and they
>> come with pretty decent pads.
>>
>> If you decide to get some of the Continentals, post back, as I've got
>> some I can measure in the garage, to see if they'll fit for ya. Likely
>> they'll fit just fine.
>>
>> Third and stupidest option, but something this lugnut would do, is use
>> an electric sander to reduce the thickness of the pad. Only works if
>> it's a mm or so of material you need gone. I often use my sander when
>> working on old bikes to bring up fresh soft rubber when I can't be
>> arsed to sort new pads.
>
>Sanding is not such an obscure option, but it is usually done without
>electricity. Brake pad sanders are available: http://tinyurl.com/nyvdp

I just wrap a strip around the rim and work the wheel back and forth.

Ron

 

[landotter]

Rick wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Iain Dalton wrote:
> > > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > If you live in a major city with a craiglist, then flog them on there
> > for a twenty, I routinely clear out excess parts bucket detritus, and
> > there are always folks wanting a good deal. Use that money to get some
> > Kool Stop Continentals, which are even cheaper, and meant for older
> > caliper brakes like that.
> >
> > Alternately, use the money towards some of the Nashbar/Tektro long
> > reach brakes, I think they're still on sale for 20-30 bucks, and they
> > come with pretty decent pads.
> >
> > If you decide to get some of the Continentals, post back, as I've got
> > some I can measure in the garage, to see if they'll fit for ya. Likely
> > they'll fit just fine.
> >
> > Third and stupidest option, but something this lugnut would do, is use
> > an electric sander to reduce the thickness of the pad. Only works if
> > it's a mm or so of material you need gone. I often use my sander when
> > working on old bikes to bring up fresh soft rubber when I can't be
> > arsed to sort new pads.
>
> Sanding is not such an obscure option, but it is usually done without
> electricity. Brake pad sanders are available: http://tinyurl.com/nyvdp
>

Who'd a thunk it?! Still, if you've got a little electric orbital palm
sander, it just takes a zzzzzzt zzzzzt and it's done. I was a hand
sander for years, but finally broke down and made the manly trip to
Sears for a Craftsman sander. It's a cute little beast, and ends up
getting used much more often than I ever imagined.

If you have a g/f wife that you're ****** at, I suppose leaving
rubber grit in her emery board is another option---if you like the
couch.

 

[Iain Dalton]

[email protected] wrote:

> Possibly the problem is that the brake is not really open
> all the way in the pictures. When it is really open to the
> max, the arm with the cable fixing bolt will hit against the
> part that holds the pad. You need to detach the cable
> from the fixing bolt to do this, since the adjuster is already
> screwed in all the way.

I did that. Now that the cable is out, I cannot easily put it back in!
It is frayed; here's a (bad) picture:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/iaindalton/206986993/>. Is it frayed
enough to fix, or replace? If the former, how? Simply twisting the
wires in the correct direction does not work. Is there a way?

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > Iain Dalton wrote:
> > > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > > These are my brakes:
> > > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/55234376@N00/sets/72157594224329489/>. I
> > > loosened the cable and pulled the calipers out as far as they could go.
> >
> > Those calipers are, coincidentally, identical to mine.
> >
> > > I hope I don't need different pads, but if I do, what are some pads to
> > > look for? Note: I bought the Eagle 2 pads because they have good
> > > reviews but are ultra-cheap at Pricepoint. If you suggest new pads,
> > > please do not suggest $30 ones; I just can't afford it!
> >
> > Rick nailed it. I think you got the wrong type of pads for your bike.
> > ...
> > But you shouldn't have to. You should trade those pads in for anything
> > you can get that's just a rectangular piece of metal with a stud and a
> > pad
> > on it.
>
> I have a pair of Eagle 2 threaded stud pads here (not
> cantilever pads). They are a mm or two thinner than an
> ancient pair of Diacompe threaded pads, like what the
> OE pads on that bike would have been before 17 years
> of wear. The OP's pads should work.
>
> Possibly the problem is that the brake is not really open
> all the way in the pictures. When it is really open to the
> max, the arm with the cable fixing bolt will hit against the
> part that holds the pad. You need to detach the cable
> from the fixing bolt to do this, since the adjuster is already
> screwed in all the way.

One more thing to look for is crud and gum in the
mechanism that prevents the calipers from opening fully.
Loosen the front cap bolt and irrigate the mechanism with
a good penetrating lubricant.

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Possibly the problem is that the brake is not really open
> > all the way in the pictures. When it is really open to the
> > max, the arm with the cable fixing bolt will hit against the
> > part that holds the pad. You need to detach the cable
> > from the fixing bolt to do this, since the adjuster is already
> > screwed in all the way.
>
> I did that. Now that the cable is out, I cannot easily put it back in!
> It is frayed; here's a (bad) picture:
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/iaindalton/206986993/>. Is it frayed
> enough to fix, or replace? If the former, how? Simply twisting the
> wires in the correct direction does not work. Is there a way?

It's 17 years old, buy your bike a new brake cable for
its birthday. The old one probably has rust on it too.
Clean out the housing, spend $1-5 on a new cable,
and enjoy the profound improvement in braking.
Don't use frayed brake cables. Once frayed they
will eventually break, and of course they'll break
right when you're squeezing hard and really need
to stop.

By the way, I note this is a rear brake. The front brake
is much more effective than the rear (see the FAQ of this
group or search the archives) and you should get the
front a new cable and pads, and learn to rely on the
front brake if you aren't already.

 

[Iain Dalton]

[email protected] wrote:

> By the way, I note this is a rear brake. The front brake
> is much more effective than the rear (see the FAQ of this
> group or search the archives) and you should get the
> front a new cable and pads, and learn to rely on the
> front brake if you aren't already.

I never use the front brake--I never picked up the habit--so I'll read
the FAQ. Just as I bought Eagle 2 pads for the back, I bought them for
the front. I will replace the cables ASAP.

I was going to buy a new bike, but I decided to just repair this bike.
While I am at it, is there anything else I should consider replacing?
I've already got the tire, tube, and brake pads. I plan on getting
brake cables and something to wrap around the handle bars. Anything
else?

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Iain Dalton wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> By the way, I note this is a rear brake. The front brake
>> is much more effective than the rear (see the FAQ of this
>> group or search the archives) and you should get the
>> front a new cable and pads, and learn to rely on the
>> front brake if you aren't already.
>
> I never use the front brake--I never picked up the habit--so I'll read
> the FAQ. Just as I bought Eagle 2 pads for the back, I bought them
> for the front. I will replace the cables ASAP.

Learn to use the front brake.

And get the brakes set up properly. Properly running brakes are light and
progressive; you can feel the braking increasing, at the extremes they will
lock a wheel, but the pressure required isn't excessive. With well setup
brakes you can feel what's happening, so won't lock a front wheel
unintentionally.


> I was going to buy a new bike, but I decided to just repair this bike.
> While I am at it, is there anything else I should consider replacing?
> I've already got the tire, tube, and brake pads. I plan on getting
> brake cables and something to wrap around the handle bars. Anything
> else?

My shopping list for an old bike would be:

New brake cables, both inner and outers. They are the biggest improvement
you'll get.
Brake blocks.
Throw away the brake levers if they are the ones for drop handlebars with
the "suicide" secondary brake levers. They are very difficult to set up
accurately so they actually work (hence the "suicide" label they acquired).
If you want secondary levers, replacements should be the mordern cyclo-cross
secondary levers, and then a normal modern "aero" lever (aero levers being
the ones where the brake cable leaves along the handlebar, rather than a bit
of cable in fresh air).

New gear cables. Consider repacing inners. Replace rear inner with the tight
turn onto the derrailleur.

Check chain for wear (stretch). Decide if replacing chain is worthwhile. If
its badly stretched you probably have to replace the chain rings and the
rear gear cassette/freewheel, this might not be economic and you may choose
to keep the old chain until it all packs up.

Bar tape. Probably with some cushioning underneath (Specialized have some in
their catelogue, and I guess there are other sources in the US. I'm from
the UK, so pointers to UK sources are of little use).

Tyres and tubes. Rim tape on wheels.


On the maintenance side, clean out the old grease and replace with new at
all the main ball bearings; wheel hubs, bottom bracket, steering. If you
can also do the pedal spindles, though some pedals defeat attempts at
dismantling.
If any of the ball bearings is anything other than shiny all over, look at
fitting new high-grade ball bearings (bearings come in different grades
which reflect the error in roundness), don't fit cheap ungraded ones,
they're probably less-round than the old ones you have in the bearings at
present!.



My oldest bike, which wasn't an expensive one when new, has had 28 years of
service, with regular lubrication and cleaning.


- Nigel



--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> ...
> And get the brakes set up properly. Properly running brakes are light and
> progressive; you can feel the braking increasing, at the extremes they will
> lock a wheel, but the pressure required isn't excessive. With well setup
> brakes you can feel what's happening, so won't lock a front wheel
> unintentionally.,,,,

Presumably, this talk of locking a front wheel refers to riding on
either unpaved surfaces, or pavement covered with water, snow or ice?

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Impact is not a synonym of affect or effect