new chain always = new cassette?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Bruce Edge, May 8, 2003.

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  1. Bruce Edge

    Bruce Edge Guest

    Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

    I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

    -Bruce
     
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  2. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "bruce edge" <[email protected]> wrote in news:p[email protected]:

    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

    If you carefully keep your chain clean and oiled, then yes, one cassette should for a few chains.
     
  3. Technician

    Technician Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >
    > I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >
    > -Bruce
    >

    I may be wrong, but i think if the chain is worn beyond use, it generally takes the cogs
    teeth with it.
    --
    ~Travis

    travis57 at megalink dot net
     
  4. bruce edge wrote:
    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >
    > I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >
    > -Bruce

    changing chain is like changing the oil in a car - the more often you change it the longer the rest
    of the drive train will last.

    if you put a new chain on a worn cogset the chain simply wears to fit the cogs and it does it Very
    quickly! put a new cogset on with a new chain and change the chain as soon as it shows signs of
    wear. check with a 1foot metal rule place one end of the rule against a chain pin, strech the chain
    tight - if you can see more than 1mm of pin exposed at the other end of the rule it's time for a
    new chain.
     
  5. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    bruce edge wrote:
    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >
    > I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >
    > -Bruce

    Keep the chain cleaned and lubbed and it and the gears will last longer. Cleaning is very important
    because the lube holds grit thrown up by the tire and turns it into grinding paste which grinds away
    at the chain and gears.

    Replace the chain when 12 links measures more than 12-1/16 to 12-1/8" (a new chain'll measure 12").
    I usually get 3 chains to a cassette, granny, and middle chainring (the big one lasts a bit longer,
    sometimes the granny lasts less :)).

    Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
    right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
    chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.

    David
     
  6. Bruce Edge

    Bruce Edge Guest

    On Thu, 08 May 2003 13:57:21 -0800, James Connell wrote:

    > bruce edge wrote:
    >> Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
    >> always do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
    >> cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >>
    >> I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >>
    >> -Bruce
    >
    > changing chain is like changing the oil in a car - the more often you change it the longer the
    > rest of the drive train will last.
    >
    > if you put a new chain on a worn cogset the chain simply wears to fit the cogs and it does it Very
    > quickly! put a new cogset on with a new chain and change the chain as soon as it shows signs of
    > wear. check with a 1foot metal rule place one end of the rule against a chain pin, strech the
    > chain tight - if you can see more than 1mm of pin exposed at the other end of the rule it's time
    > for a new chain.

    I always get the burrs growing off the sides of the teeth of my cassette before the chain shows any
    wear. Do XTR cassettes have harder teeth than XT? The XT ones really seem to be made of cheese.

    -Bruce
     
  7. The trick is to clean and lube often and replace the chain *BEFORE* it's worn.

    http://altsports.nuvisionmedia.net/

    "bruce edge" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >
    > I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >
    > -Bruce
     
  8. Van Bagnol

    Van Bagnol Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    > Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
    > do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
    > teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >
    > I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

    If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let replacing
    the chain go on for too long.

    Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the wear
    on a new cassette.

    Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.

    Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
    from now on.

    Van

    --
    Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
    Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
    Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
     
  9. Leo

    Leo Guest

    "Adam" <[email protected]> wrote news:[email protected]...

    > > Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
    > > right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
    > > chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.
    >
    > This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
    > stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
    > much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth, distributing
    > the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains you rotate, once
    > the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of both sets of cogs
    > (chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't continue to get reasonable
    > wear once the chain is stretched...
    >
    > Cheers - Adam...

    Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far I
    still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
    pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of chains,
    still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new one, so I
    just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at all. The
    chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not shift under
    load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other week or 200
    miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two chains after each
    other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :)

    /Leo
     
  10. Bruce Edge

    Bruce Edge Guest

    On Fri, 09 May 2003 06:24:26 +0000, Van Bagnol wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
    >> always do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
    >> cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    >>
    >> I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    >
    > If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let
    > replacing the chain go on for too long.

    Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.

    >
    > Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the
    > wear on a new cassette.
    >
    > Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.
    >
    > Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
    > from now on.

    Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect? I clean my chain with one of those park scrubby
    things every week, and lube it.

    I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence over being nice to my
    drive train.

    I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb mode.
    Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.

    -Bruce
     
  11. Hi Bruce,

    Rohlof and Park tools make nice tools to measure chain wear... If worn, replace and enjoy more life
    from your cassette. However, it could be cheaper to just continue the use of the (worn) chain and
    then replace the cassette AND chain if it starts "slipping". (Note that the chain rings on the
    cranks might be wearing out faster that way as well)

    Caspar

    "bruce edge" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:p[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 09 May 2003 06:24:26 +0000, Van Bagnol wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with
    the
    > >> old cassette. They always do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs
    > >> on the side of the cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a
    > >> couple of chains?
    > >>
    > >> I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    > >
    > > If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time
    in
    > > the past you let replacing the chain go on for too long.
    >
    > Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.
    >
    > >
    > > Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a
    worn
    > > chain will hasten the wear on a new cassette.
    > >
    > > Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.
    > >
    > > Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
    > > from now on.
    >
    > Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect? I clean my chain with one of those park scrubby
    > things every week, and lube it.
    >
    > I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence
    over
    > being nice to my drive train.
    >
    > I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb
    > mode. Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.
    >
    > -Bruce
     
  12. Adam

    Adam Guest

    "Leo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Adam" <[email protected]> wrote news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > > Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a
    > > > week right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll
    > > > wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.
    > >
    > > This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
    > > stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
    > > much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth,
    > > distributing the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains
    > > you rotate, once the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of
    > > both sets of cogs (chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't
    > > continue to get reasonable wear once the chain is stretched...
    -8<- snip ->8-
    > Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far
    > I still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
    > pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of
    > chains, still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new
    > one, so I just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at
    > all. The chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not
    > shift under load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other
    > week or 200 miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two
    > chains after each other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :)

    Hi Leo,

    I reread my post, and I didn't express what I was trying to get across very well...

    I agree that you can extend the life of the cassette by rotating chains, but what you can't do is
    reduce the rate of wear on a cassette once a chain is stretched - I was specifically objecting to:
    "I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear
    with the chain". Once the chain is that worn, the cassette will get chewed at the same rate, no
    matter how many chains are being rotated.

    Thinking about it, I suppose moving a newer chain onto a worn cassette, which effectively has a
    longer pitch, would help to relieve stress on the teeth but only if the link length matched the
    current (worn) pitch of the cassette. Also, you'd be at much greater risk of chain suck with well
    worn cogs and a newer chain.

    I totally agree that rotating chains can increase the life of the cassette. Good chain maintenance
    can dramatically increase the life of chains (and hence cassette). Chain rotation by itself won't
    increase the (working) life of a chain, though. Replacing chains (which, let's face it, are pretty
    cheap in comparison to chainrings and cassettes) before they stretch will achieve the same thing.

    Cheers - Adam...
     
  13. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Adam wrote:
    > "Leo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>"Adam" <[email protected]> wrote news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
    >>>>right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
    >>>>chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.
    >>>
    >>>This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
    >>>stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
    >>>much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth, distributing
    >>>the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains you rotate, once
    >>>the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of both sets of cogs
    >>>(chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't continue to get reasonable
    >>>wear once the chain is stretched...
    >
    > -8<- snip ->8-
    >
    >>Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far
    >>I still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
    >>pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of
    >>chains, still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new
    >>one, so I just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at
    >>all. The chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not
    >>shift under load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other
    >>week or 200 miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two
    >>chains after each other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :)
    >
    >
    > Hi Leo,
    >
    > I reread my post, and I didn't express what I was trying to get across very well...
    >
    > I agree that you can extend the life of the cassette by rotating chains, but what you can't do is
    > reduce the rate of wear on a cassette once a chain is stretched - I was specifically objecting to:
    > "I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear
    > with the chain". Once the chain is that worn, the cassette will get chewed at the same rate, no
    > matter how many chains are being rotated.
    >
    > Thinking about it, I suppose moving a newer chain onto a worn cassette, which effectively has a
    > longer pitch, would help to relieve stress on the teeth but only if the link length matched the
    > current (worn) pitch of the cassette. Also, you'd be at much greater risk of chain suck with well
    > worn cogs and a newer chain.
    >
    > I totally agree that rotating chains can increase the life of the cassette. Good chain maintenance
    > can dramatically increase the life of chains (and hence cassette). Chain rotation by itself won't
    > increase the (working) life of a chain, though. Replacing chains (which, let's face it, are pretty
    > cheap in comparison to chainrings and cassettes) before they stretch will achieve the same thing.
    >
    > Cheers - Adam...
    Actaully, I was after something even simpler. For the last too many chains and miles, I've gotten
    3 chains to a cassette, small, and middle chainring. I've kept the chains clean and lubbed and
    replaced them at 12-1/16 to 12-1/8" wear. What happens is that I take a working, but worn chain
    off and the new one skips on the cassette and the middle CR and sucks on the small. So, I replace
    those parts.

    NOW, I'm going to use 3 chains with the same care, in rotation. But, I'm going to let them run until
    the chains break, stop shifting, or all skip. I can't help but get more miles since the gears and
    chains will be worn to the same spacing, so skipping is unlikely and chain suck from shorter spacing
    on a worn gear is also not an issue. I do expect shifting problems or chain suck from worn teeth to
    develope -- but, I expect this to happen several k-miles longer than I used to get out of the same
    components because I'm not mixing new with worn.

    David
     
  14. Van Bagnol

    Van Bagnol Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    > On Fri, 09 May 2003 06:24:26 +0000, Van Bagnol wrote:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >> Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
    > >> always do that quasi-shifting crap under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
    > >> cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?
    > >>
    > >> I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.
    > >
    > > If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let
    > > replacing the chain go on for too long.
    >
    > Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.
    >
    > > Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the
    > > wear on a new cassette.
    > >
    > > Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.
    > >
    > > Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
    > > from now on.
    >
    > Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect?

    Sorry, but you did call it an "old" cassette your post.

    It's developed burrs. That's a signal to replace it. In any case, if the cassette teeth are worn,
    it's going to hasten wear on whatever chain is on it, new or not, and a bad chain will start to wear
    the chainrings, new or not.

    > I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence over being nice to my
    > drive train.
    >
    > I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb
    > mode. Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.

    Really torqueing the cranks, huh? That could do it. If you're using granny in the front, try
    switching to the middle ring and ride a lower gear in the back. That reduces chain tension and
    the larger back cog will distribute the chain force over more teeth. Failing that, don't use XT
    next time.

    I have XT 9-speed cassettes and a Sachs/SRAM chain that's about a year old. So far the setup's
    lasted me with no chain stretch.

    Van

    --
    Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
    Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
    Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
     
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