New Crankset for Schwinn World Tourist 12 speed?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by pedantus, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. pedantus

    pedantus Guest

    Hi All,
    Does anyone happen to know if I can put a compact crankset on an old
    Schwinn 12 speed. I picked up a Ladies World Tourist because my wife
    has had her hip replaced an needs a step-through frame. She just liked
    that old thing when we saw at a rural second hand bike shop, it is just
    her size, and it has probably never been ridden or left in the weather.

    It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    replace the original, the tubing there at least looks like the same
    size. This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    I'm in for here...:) I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess. Any one got
    any suggestions?

    Thanks very much,
    Rog
     
    Tags:


  2. An anonymous poster wrote:

    > Does anyone happen to know if I can put a compact crankset on an old
    > Schwinn 12 speed... Ladies World Tourist because my wife


    Yes, but it may already have one! Check the BCD (Bolt Circle Diameter)
    as explained at http://harriscyclery.com/chainrings

    If it's the 110 mm BCD, it is a "compact" crank, though it probably
    doesn't have "compact" chainrings on it.

    It is also, unfortunately, possible that it has rivetted-together
    chainrings, in which case you would need a new crank set.

    > It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    > replace the original,


    If it has 3-piece cranks, that's true, but you may not need to replace it.

    > the tubing there at least looks like the same
    > size. This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    > crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    > I'm in for here...:)


    If the bottom bracket screws into the frame, it will be standard ISO.
    The other possiblity is that it has the oversized "Ashtabula" type
    bottom bracket, but I'm pretty sure the World Tourist didn't use that type.

    I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    > rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess.


    No, that's a total non sequitur. Replacing the cranks doesn't require
    any change in back.

    However, if lower gearing is what's wanted, a "Megarange" freewheel
    might be a good option.

    See: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels

    Indeed, just changing the freewheel (and chain) might bring the gearing
    down low enough for your wife's needs, and a LOT cheaper than messing
    with the crankset.

    Sheldon "Upgrades" Brown
    +-------------------------------------------+
    | Ah, but I was so much older then, |
    | I'm younger than that now. |
    | -Bob Dylan |
    +-------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  3. Pedantus

    Pedantus Guest

    "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > An anonymous poster wrote:
    >
    >> Does anyone happen to know if I can put a compact crankset on an old
    >> Schwinn 12 speed... Ladies World Tourist because my wife

    >
    > Yes, but it may already have one! Check the BCD (Bolt Circle Diameter) as
    > explained at http://harriscyclery.com/chainrings
    >
    > If it's the 110 mm BCD, it is a "compact" crank, though it probably
    > doesn't have "compact" chainrings on it.
    >
    > It is also, unfortunately, possible that it has rivetted-together
    > chainrings, in which case you would need a new crank set.
    >
    >> It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    >> replace the original,

    >
    > If it has 3-piece cranks, that's true, but you may not need to replace it.
    >
    >> the tubing there at least looks like the same
    >> size. This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    >> crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    >> I'm in for here...:)

    >
    > If the bottom bracket screws into the frame, it will be standard ISO. The
    > other possiblity is that it has the oversized "Ashtabula" type bottom
    > bracket, but I'm pretty sure the World Tourist didn't use that type.
    >
    > I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    >> rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess.

    >
    > No, that's a total non sequitur. Replacing the cranks doesn't require any
    > change in back.


    Ah...well, the crankset does the ratcheting on this thing...I kinda
    expected the rear hub to be "solid" (non-ratcheting) whatever one could call
    it...:)

    >
    > However, if lower gearing is what's wanted, a "Megarange" freewheel might
    > be a good option.
    >
    > See: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels
    >
    > Indeed, just changing the freewheel (and chain) might bring the gearing
    > down low enough for your wife's needs, and a LOT cheaper than messing with
    > the crankset.


    I've spoiled her with the really low combinations, like 20/34 on the
    bottom 40/14 on top...but the hip surgeon says absolutely no standing to
    climb hills.

    >
    > Sheldon "Upgrades" Brown


    Cute..:)

    > +-------------------------------------------+
    > | Ah, but I was so much older then, |
    > | I'm younger than that now. |
    > | -Bob Dylan |
    > +-------------------------------------------+
    > Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    > Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    > http://harriscyclery.com
    > Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    > http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
    >


    Thanks,
    Rog
     
  4. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    Pedantus wrote:
    >
    > Ah...well, the crankset does the ratcheting on this thing...I kinda


    > expected the rear hub to be "solid" (non-ratcheting) whatever one

    could call
    > it...:)
    >


    Ah ha! The old Shimano Front-Freewheeling System strikes again!

    You can replace the cranks with a standard (non-FFS) set, but (as
    you've surmised) you'll have to replace the rear freewheel as well.
    That's no problem: it has standard freewheel threads (it's not a
    cassette) and the freewheel even uses a standard Shimano remover.

    Replacing the crankset with a triple should be no problem. You may be
    able to get away with not replacing the bottom bracket, also, depending
    on the length of the BB spindle and whether or not it's splined or
    square-taper. If it's square-taper, you should be fine. If not, I'm 99%
    certain the frame will accept a standard cartridge bottom bracket.

    Feel free to ask questions- I worked on a few of these bikes 'way back
    when. I'm sure Sheldon remembers that era, too.

    Jeff

    P.S. Trivia: the FFS "freewheel" isn't truly "solid". Each cog has a
    stiff one-way clutch in case something- a stick or pants cuff- gets
    sucked into the drivetrain.
     
  5. Pedantus

    Pedantus Guest

    "JeffWills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Pedantus wrote:
    >>
    >> Ah...well, the crankset does the ratcheting on this thing...I kinda

    >
    >> expected the rear hub to be "solid" (non-ratcheting) whatever one

    > could call
    >> it...:)
    >>

    >
    > Ah ha! The old Shimano Front-Freewheeling System strikes again!
    >
    > You can replace the cranks with a standard (non-FFS) set, but (as
    > you've surmised) you'll have to replace the rear freewheel as well.



    OK...So, the rear wheel/hub can stay as is, but the freewheel thingy gets
    replaced
    by one of these guys:
    http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=781



    > That's no problem: it has standard freewheel threads (it's not a
    > cassette) and the freewheel even uses a standard Shimano remover.


    I have that tool...:) And a crank puller. Guess, I'm ready to start making
    a mess of things...:)

    >
    > Replacing the crankset with a triple should be no problem. You may be
    > able to get away with not replacing the bottom bracket, also, depending
    > on the length of the BB spindle and whether or not it's splined or
    > square-taper. If it's square-taper, you should be fine. If not, I'm 99%
    > certain the frame will accept a standard cartridge bottom bracket.


    As Sheldon ("Upgrade") said, if it's a 3-piece, 110mm, it's cool; I'll
    leave it as is, and put on a compact triple crank. She likes the 40-30-20
    with 165mm cranks, and I can recycle the platform pedals...:)

    We like slow...:) I put an Xtracycle FreeRadical on my 80's Royce Union
    hybrid MTB frame; I carry so much junk around that I use a 34/32/20 triple
    and 14-32 7speed cassette...shifting back and forth between 34 and 32 can
    simulate a corncob 14-15-16-17...etc...for steady SLOW acceleration ....:)
    My knees praise the genius of it all...:)

    >
    > Feel free to ask questions- I worked on a few of these bikes 'way back
    > when. I'm sure Sheldon remembers that era, too.


    Thanks very much guys...I wasn't very comfortable with the mix and match
    game these unknown parts presented.



    >
    > Jeff
    >


    Rog
     
  6. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    Pedantus wrote:
    > OK...So, the rear wheel/hub can stay as is, but the freewheel

    thingy gets
    > replaced
    > by one of these guys:
    > http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=781
    >


    Yep.

    >
    >
    > > That's no problem: it has standard freewheel threads (it's not a
    > > cassette) and the freewheel even uses a standard Shimano remover.

    >
    > I have that tool...:) And a crank puller. Guess, I'm ready to start

    making
    > a mess of things...:)
    >


    Here's where the FFS may surprise you. If I'm remembering correctly,
    the FFS crank had a unique bottom bracket with internal cups and
    threads on the spindle. It comes apart somewhat like an American
    one-piece crank. When it comes time to extract the cups from the frame,
    you may not see flats on the outside of the cups.

    But fear not! If this is the case, look inside of the cup. There should
    be a series of splines there, and the standard Shimano freewheel tool
    fits these also. Remember: left cup, right thread; right cup, left
    thread!

    >
    > We like slow...:) I put an Xtracycle FreeRadical on my 80's Royce

    Union
    > hybrid MTB frame; I carry so much junk around that I use a 34/32/20

    triple
    > and 14-32 7speed cassette...shifting back and forth between 34 and 32

    can
    > simulate a corncob 14-15-16-17...etc...for steady SLOW acceleration

    .....:)
    > My knees praise the genius of it all...:)
    >


    Ooohh... one of my friends is an Xtracycle fan also. He uses his to
    tote his two daughters to elementary school, nicely bypassing the lines
    of SUV's waiting to drop kids off.

    Jeff
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    pedantus wrote:

    > Hi All,
    > Does anyone happen to know if I can put a compact crankset on an old
    > Schwinn 12 speed. I picked up a Ladies World Tourist because my wife
    > has had her hip replaced an needs a step-through frame. She just liked
    > that old thing when we saw at a rural second hand bike shop, it is just
    > her size, and it has probably never been ridden or left in the weather.
    >
    > It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    > replace the original, the tubing there at least looks like the same
    > size. This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    > crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    > I'm in for here...:) I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    > rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess. Any one got
    > any suggestions?


    Yes that bike, built by Panasonic, is a well made frame and
    accepts common 1.370x24 threaded 68mm crank bearing cartridges.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  8. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Pedantus wrote:
    > Ah...well, the crankset does the ratcheting on this thing...I kinda
    > expected the rear hub to be "solid" (non-ratcheting) whatever one could call
    > it...:)


    The FFS model will require a new freewheel when you change
    cranks. Possibly a chain as well.

    The special FFS-PPS freewheel lets each cog slip
    individually -but not easily enough to allow coasting with
    a normal crank.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  9. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    -snip-

    > "JeffWills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>Replacing the crankset with a triple should be no problem. You may be
    >>able to get away with not replacing the bottom bracket, also, depending
    >>on the length of the BB spindle and whether or not it's splined or
    >>square-taper. If it's square-taper, you should be fine. If not, I'm 99%
    >>certain the frame will accept a standard cartridge bottom bracket.


    Pedantus wrote:
    > As Sheldon ("Upgrade") said, if it's a 3-piece, 110mm, it's cool; I'll
    > leave it as is, and put on a compact triple crank. She likes the 40-30-20
    > with 165mm cranks, and I can recycle the platform pedals...:)


    I believe you'll find that crank is the original Selecta
    with an Octa-8 system spindle. Since no other crank fits
    it, you're back to a new BB.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  10. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 21 Feb 2005 13:46:35 -0800, "pedantus" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    >replace the original, the tubing there at least looks like the same
    >size. This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    >crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    >I'm in for here...:) I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    >rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess. Any one got
    >any suggestions?


    You don't have to change the gears or wheel size. You likely just
    need a crankset and bb.

    I have a Sugino XD2 that has 48x36x24 rings and 170mm. It's new and
    unusual in the fact that it is the only one that I've seen that is all
    black. I also have the requisite bottom bracket.

    You can get the same unit from www.yellowjersey.org if you want
    polished rings. You can email me [email protected] if you are
    interested.
     
  11. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 21 Feb 2005 13:46:35 -0800, "pedantus" <[email protected]> may
    have said:

    >Hi All,
    > Does anyone happen to know if I can put a compact crankset on an old
    >Schwinn 12 speed. I picked up a Ladies World Tourist because my wife
    >has had her hip replaced an needs a step-through frame. She just liked
    >that old thing when we saw at a rural second hand bike shop, it is just
    >her size, and it has probably never been ridden or left in the weather.


    Oddly enough, I picked up one in similar condition about a month ago
    for less than the cost of a tire to fit it. I bought it to scavenge
    the aluminum rims from it to upgrade an old Bridgestone that came with
    the now-dreaded chrome-plated steel rims of yore, but my daughter
    appropriated the bike intact instead. Rats.

    > It does seem that a cartridge type bottom bracket could be used to
    >replace the original, the tubing there at least looks like the same
    >size.


    The BB shell in the frame is able to accept common sealed BB units,
    but why bother? The original is probably in good shape, and uses a
    regular square taper.

    > This would of course probably allow me to fit a MTB type triple
    >crankset on it, but I'm not going to take it apart without knowing what
    >I'm in for here...:) I suppose that would mean I have to replace the
    >rear wheel--put a 7 speed freehub in a 27" rim, I guess. Any one got
    >any suggestions?


    Putting a triple on there might mean swapping out the front der; if
    yours is like the one here, it won't have enough throw. There's no
    reason to swap out the rear just because the front is changed, though.

    The cable routing on that model's a bit novel; the cable guides are
    metal brackets above the BB instead of a plastic piece below it, so a
    dab of grease (with all of its wonderful ability to grab and hold
    grit) may be needed to achieve smooth cable motion.

    The other option is to stay with a double in front and (as Sheldon
    Brown suggested) swap up to a freewheel in the rear which has a larger
    low-gear sprocket. I haven't tried that with this one, so I can't say
    if the der (which might not be the same anyway) will accommodate that
    jump, but even if it doesn't, the der swap wouldn't be hard or
    expensive.

    BTW, if your World Tourist has the same setup as this one, the front
    sprockets are riveted to the crank; to change the front gearing, you
    would indeed need to replace the cranks, but the BB should be OK
    as-is.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  12. Pedantus

    Pedantus Guest

    "pedantus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    So many responses...thanks everyone...:)

    I couldn't find the freewheel tool I thought I had, so I had to take the
    bike to a shop anyway...:( Wife took the van, so I had to bungee the
    partially disassembled Schwinn onto the back of my Xtracycle, and entertain
    the motoring public.

    As described the BB comes out in pieces, the shaft is octagonal, the
    grease cups are removed using the splined freewheel tool. A BB cartridge
    threads right in: a square tapered one fits the cheap compact MTB triple
    crankset, (and, yes, now I need to dig up a front deraillure with enough
    throw). The FF freewheel was replaced by a standard freewheel.

    Now if only I had actually had that @#$% shimano freewheel tool...:)

    Thank you all for your help.

    Rog
     
  13. tzed250

    tzed250 Guest

    Wow. I pulled one of these (well, mine's a 10-speed) out of the trash and
    it works great for taking the kid for rides.
    I'm an inveterate tinkerer and just learned more about the bike than I
    thought possible, thanks!
    Now I can plot and plan ways to 'modernize' it.....
     
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