New Cycling Organization

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I guess I learned a third thing: I had to know at least one recipe for every cut of meat we sold.
> I know one recipe for head cheese, and one for tripe, and one for hog maws.

That's one more recipe for each of those than I know! I've seen plenty of the "Oh, that looks
good, I'll take it. Uh, what do I do with it?" at the meat counter. I think it might be even
worse at the fish end.

> My step-dad had amazing 3-D visualization skills. He'd run his hand across the outside of a side
> of beef (or lamb, or pig, or deer) and see the muscular structure underneath. Then he'd make the
> reference cut. Every thing emanated from that first cut. If he was off by a half inch, he'd only
> be able to get n steaks instead of n+1 and one customer would end up with a really really good
> chuck roast (which sold for four bucks a pound less than steak). This is what a good butcher does:
> he gets one steak more than a mediocre butcher. Right before he retired, I asked him about the
> rise of primal cuts and supermarket butchers. He said, "You don't see butchers anymore. Now all we
> have are meat cutters."

I'd say he's pretty much right. The ability to see what's inside the hunk of meat and then be
able to know how to get those cuts out is an art that's really disappearing. Too bad.

> If you're looking for a hanger steak, you'll have to find a shop that still breaks down sides
> of beef.

I think there's a shop like that down in Mountain View (about 30 miles or so from me). Either
that or the next time I go to LA, I could stop at Harris Ranch. If you've driven 5, you've seen
it: it's the feedyard that we call "cow-schwitz". So after working in the butcher shop, you
probably don't have many "meat is murder" stickers...

--
tanx, Howard

"Better a lapdog for a slip of a girl than a ... git." Blackadder

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[Benjamin Weiner]

Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think there's a shop like that down in Mountain View (about 30 miles or so
> from me). Either that or the next time I go to LA, I could stop at Harris Ranch.
> If you've driven 5, you've seen it: it's the feedyard that we call "cow-schwitz".

The stink of that feedyard hardly tempts one to stop off for a nice paper-wrapped souvenir, though.
But the worst-smelling place I've ever been in my life was a dairy barn, and I went to school across
the street from a Nabisco Saltines factory which on certain days emitted a truly foul yeast-derived
smell (far worse than the sulfurous odors of the steel mills). Lesson: Behind the scenes of many
things one consumes, there is a stench. It's no wonder, but a pity, that people who can afford it
wish that the making of stuff would move across the river or ocean to the less desirable
neighborhood.

> So after working in the butcher shop, you probably don't have many "meat is murder" stickers...

OTOH, reading Tim O'Brien's description of his summer job in a slaughterhouse in the
Vietnam/Minnesota story "On the Rainy River" (in "The Things They Carried") nearly made me a
vegetarian.

-Ben I said "nearly"

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]> wrote:

> The stink of that feedyard hardly tempts one to stop off for a nice paper-wrapped
> souvenir, though.

True. But if you get it, pop it in an ice chest and continue up the road, after a while, you'll
forget the smell. I'm not so sure about eating at the restaurant there, though.

> But the worst-smelling place I've ever been in my life was a dairy barn, and I went to school
> across the street from a Nabisco Saltines factory which on certain days emitted a truly foul
> yeast-derived smell (far worse than the sulfurous odors of the steel mills). Lesson: Behind the
> scenes of many things one consumes, there is a stench.

Also true. I used to work about 200 yds from a Wonder Bread plant. The smell on a hot day was
pretty rank.

> It's no wonder, but a pity, that people who can afford it wish that the making of stuff would move
> across the river or ocean to the less desirable neighborhood.

And they often succeed in making just that happen. "Yeah, you were here first, but, ya know, you
gotta go..."

>
> > So after working in the butcher shop, you probably don't have many "meat is murder"
> > stickers...
>
> OTOH, reading Tim O'Brien's description of his summer job in a slaughterhouse in the
> Vietnam/Minnesota story "On the Rainy River" (in "The Things They Carried") nearly made me a
> vegetarian.
>
> -Ben I said "nearly"

It would take more than a mere book to convert me from carnivore.

--
tanx, Howard

"Better a lapdog for a slip of a girl than a ... git." Blackadder

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Robert Chung]

Howard Kveck wrote:

>> If you're looking for a hanger steak, you'll have to find a shop that still breaks down sides
>> of beef.
>
> I think there's a shop like that down in Mountain View (about 30 miles or so from me). Either that
> or the next time I go to LA, I could stop at Harris Ranch.

Try a Chinese or Mexican butcher shop. Perhaps a chain supermarket like 99 Ranch might still break
down beef sides. At a Mexican butcher shop, you might be able to ask for it as a fajita steak.

http://www.99ranch.com/StoreLocator.asp?Store=All

 

[Robert Chung]

Howard Kveck wrote:
> So after working in the butcher shop, you probably don't have many "meat is murder" stickers...

I try to recognize the provenance of the things I eat. Some animals are physically mistreated, and
that's a bad thing.

 

[H Squared]

Robert Chung wrote:
>
> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > So after working in the butcher shop, you probably don't have many "meat is murder" stickers...
>
> I try to recognize the provenance of the things I eat. Some animals are physically mistreated, and
> that's a bad thing.

and on the other side of things, who's to say that plants are cool with being killed and eaten? (in
general, not talking about things like fruit) i was shopping for food once with my bf and i asked
him (semi-tongue in cheek), "how come no one is ever concerned about the rights of plants?"

my favorite story relating to this (i'm not as literary as b. weiner, sorry)- "Once when Rabbi Kook
was walking in the fields, lost in deep thought, the young student with him inadvertently plucked a
leaf off a branch. Rabbi Kook was visibly shaken by this act, and turning to his companion he said
gently: 'Believe me when I tell you that I never simply pluck a leaf or a blade of grass or any
living thing unless I have to. Every part of the vegetable world is singing a song and breathing
forth a secret of the divine mystery of the creation.' The words of Rabbi Kook penetrated deeply
into the mind of the young student. For the first time he understood what it means to show
compassion to all creatures" (alan unterman, Teachings of the Jewish Mystics)

this concludes your sunday morning message, heather

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Try a Chinese or Mexican butcher shop. Perhaps a chain supermarket like 99 Ranch might still break
> down beef sides. At a Mexican butcher shop, you might be able to ask for it as a fajita steak.

That's an idea. I have been in a few Mexican markets and the meat counters there are probably not
too different than your experience when you got to France: I didn't recognize any of the cuts.
There's a 99 Ranch near me. Thanks for the tip.

--
tanx, Howard

"Better a lapdog for a slip of a girl than a ... git." Blackadder

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Robert Chung wrote:
> >
> > Howard Kveck wrote:
> > > So after working in the butcher shop, you probably don't have many "meat is murder"
> > > stickers...
> >
> > I try to recognize the provenance of the things I eat. Some animals are physically mistreated,
> > and that's a bad thing.
>
> and on the other side of things, who's to say that plants are cool with being killed and eaten?
> (in general, not talking about things like fruit) i was shopping for food once with my bf and i
> asked him (semi-tongue in cheek), "how come no one is ever concerned about the rights of plants?"

When plants are grown in farms, their conditions are as good on a farm as they are in nature.

Additioinally, in nature, their edible parts are at the lower part of the food chain, so us
harvesting their edible portions is fairly natural.

Harvesting cows from rangeland is also somewhat natural. The cows roam free, graze and become Bovine
Masters Fatties. Raising chickens in dark cages and cutting off their bills so they can't peck at
each other is not.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> When plants are grown in farms, their conditions are as good on a farm as they are in nature.
>
I disagree. Agricultural land is frequently on the verge of malnourishing for the plant, especially
if the farmer is in the habit of growing only one or two different crops. Crop rotation is supposed
to minimise nutrient depletion, but is always a need for some artificial replenishment. Frequently
stalks of corn go to bed hungry. This is not the case in a natural setting since monoculture does
not exist in nature.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >
> > When plants are grown in farms, their conditions are as good on a farm as they are in nature.
> >
> I disagree. Agricultural land is frequently on the verge of malnourishing for the plant,
> especially if the farmer is in the habit of growing only
one
> or two different crops. Crop rotation is supposed to minimise nutrient depletion, but is always a
> need for some artificial replenishment. Frequently stalks of corn go to bed hungry. This is not
> the case in a natural setting since monoculture does not exist in nature.

Those types of farmers will eventually go out of business. Malnourished crops can hardly be
profitable.

Besides, malnourishment is part of the ebb and flow of nature. During the drought we had in
California (prior to this year), the coastal scrub was almost 100% dead.

Farmers irrigate and spray their crops with insecticides and fungicides. Generally speaking, the
farmed crops have an easier time of it, IMO.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Jeffery Dahlmer comes to mind.
>
> Dashii
>
>

I'm assuming you mean Jeffrey Dahmer. It took me a few days to remember this guy's name, but
check out Joachim Kroll. He brought new meaning to the phrase "rump roast".

--
tanx, Howard

"Do you mind if we dance wif yo dates?" Animal House

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Jeffery Dahlmer comes to mind.
> >
> > Dashii
> >
> >
>
> I'm assuming you mean Jeffrey Dahmer. It took me a few days to remember
this
> guy's name, but check out Joachim Kroll. He brought new meaning to the
phrase
> "rump roast".

OK I will, you also google "Jeffrey Dahlmer" and see what you get.

Dashii

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > I'm assuming you mean Jeffrey Dahmer. It took me a few days to remember this guy's name, but
> > check out Joachim Kroll. He brought new meaning to the phrase "rump roast".
>
> OK I will, you also google "Jeffrey Dahlmer" and see what you get.
>
> Dashii
>
>

Hmm, lots of interchangeable uses of 'Dahmer' and 'Dahlmer', sometimes on the same site. One
thing I did notice was many death penalty/theology and "he did it because he was an atheist..."
discussions. I'll look some more later.

--
tanx, Howard

"You owe it to yourself, to your friends, to your parents, -not- to play in a band called Sonic
Death Monkey!" High Fidelity remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
>
> > > I'm assuming you mean Jeffrey Dahmer. It took me a few days to
remember
> > > this guy's name, but check out Joachim Kroll. He brought new meaning
to the
> > > phrase "rump roast".
> >
> > OK I will, you also google "Jeffrey Dahlmer" and see what you get.
> >
> > Dashii
> >
> >
>
> Hmm, lots of interchangeable uses of 'Dahmer' and 'Dahlmer', sometimes
on the
> same site. One thing I did notice was many death penalty/theology and "he
did it
> because he was an atheist..." discussions. I'll look some more later.

Wow, Joachim makes Jeffrey look like a Boy Scout!

Dashii

 

[Robert Chung]

Howard Kveck wrote:
>
> I'm assuming you mean Jeffrey Dahmer. It took me a few days to remember this guy's name, but
> check out Joachim Kroll. He brought new meaning to the phrase "rump roast".

Coincidentally, last week I was at a dinner that included fava beans and a bottle of Chianti.

 

[hbarta]

Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> When plants are grown in farms, their conditions are as good on a farm as they are in nature.
>
> Additioinally, in nature, their edible parts are at the lower part of the food chain, so us
> harvesting their edible portions is fairly natural.
>
> Harvesting cows from rangeland is also somewhat natural. The cows roam free, graze and become
> Bovine Masters Fatties. Raising chickens in dark cages and cutting off their bills so they can't
> peck at each other is not.

simply broken off. No anesthetic is used either. How natural is that?

PETP

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:QZT3b.301058$o%2.136315@sccrnsc02...
> Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > When plants are grown in farms, their conditions are as good on a farm
as
> > they are in nature.
> >
> > Additioinally, in nature, their edible parts are at the lower part of
the
> > food chain, so us harvesting their edible portions is fairly natural.
> >
> > Harvesting cows from rangeland is also somewhat natural. The cows roam
free,
> > graze and become Bovine Masters Fatties. Raising chickens in dark cages
and
> > cutting off their bills so they can't peck at each other is not.
>

> simply broken off. No anesthetic is used either. How natural is that?

It may be less painful than getting eaten alive by wolves without anaesthetic.