New Frame / Old Components

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by gkamieneski, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski New Member

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    I have had to strip a 2002 Campy Chorus 8-sp group from a broken frame and I am in the market for a carbon frame as a replacement. I am soliciting advice for the compatibility issues I will face.

    I used downtube levers with my 8sp derailleurs, cassette and chainrings. Will I be able to find 8sp ergo levers or can I take them up a notch and do something about the rest of the drivetrain? I have 2 Campy 8-sp wheelsets, one clincher, one sew-ups. Actually one of the rear hubs is 9-sp Chrorus that I space with Wheels MFG spacers to use 8sp.

    Because the Campy 53/39 crankset is square taper and all the available carbon frames on the market seem to be PF30, BB86 etc. it looks like I will need a new bottom bracket and compatible crankset.

    Seatposts I have are 27.2 but it looks like most carbon frames use a larger diameter post. Also, I have a beautiful 3TTT Forgie stem. It looks like it will still fit the new tapered steerers but the other end of the stem will not accommodate the thicker bars.
     
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  2. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FWIW. I'm in favor of transferring existing components to a new frame ... BUT, you need to clarify something because the 8-speed era of Campagnolo derailleurs pre-dates 1998 ... AND, it if Chorus group dates from 2002 then whoever set up your bike slugged it by setting it up as an 8-speed ... BECAUSE, by 2002 your Chorus rear derailleur would have been spec'd as either a 9-or-10-speed ([color=c0c0c0]no functional difference[/color]) ...
    • Please POST a picture of your rear derailleur.
    Regardless, you seem intent on practicing a "false economy" by trying to re-use stuff you have while not weighing the cost of trying to maintain its use. That's MY way of saying that there is probably zero reason to scrounge around for a set of 8-speed Campagnolo shifters ...
    • However, if ([color=ff0000]and, that's a BIG "if"[/color]) you truly have an 8-speed Campagnolo rear derailleur ([COLOR=c0c0c0]i.e., the picture of YOUR rear derailleur is really important if you want a meaningful answer[/COLOR]), then you can probably mate it with a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter to achieve 8-speed indexing.
    Depending on your rear derailleur, it makes more sense ([COLOR=0000FF]to me[/COLOR]) for you to opt for either a 10-or-11-speed Campagnolo setup. The 8-speed Freehub body on your older Campagnolo hubbed wheel can be updated with a current Freehub body OR you can have the rim re-laced onto the new hub ... FYI. Regardless, if your salvaged BB has English threads then you can buy an adapter which will (probably) allow you to use your current crankset & BB with a frame which has a BB86 shell. You can either use a seatpost shim OR simply buy a new seatpost. If you want to use your "beautiful 3TTT Forgie stem" then continue to use your current handlebars OR buy-and-use a different handlebar which as the older 26.0 center section. [COLOR=008000]OF COURSE, if you truly want to use as many of your existing components as possible then you can always get a non-Carbon Fiber frame which has an English threaded BB shell.[/COLOR]
     
  3. randazzo

    randazzo New Member

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    hello I read the conversation and I think that the movement center should be changed every five years because the bearings wear out. for the frame with the seat tube 27.2 watch this http://www.tecnobici.com/shop/index.php?id_product=1633&controller=product
     
  4. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski New Member

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    I have 2 of these Chrous RDs. The first photo is a newer model.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    It can all be made to work...your old group and wheels, that is...given enough time on eBay. We all know that old, solid Campy stuff will function perfectly long after the zombie apocalypse. And yes, that would save some real money, but...

    Denying yourself the awesome 11-speed new Chorus group to put on that new carbon wonder-frame you're looking at?

    I think NOT!

    Buying Athena or Chorus (what I've used for years on my training and racing bikes) at a closeout price and then deducting the cost of all the conversion/adapter stuff, replacing worn items and frame upgrade pieces parts you'll need you might find the cost of going to the new 11-speed group to be reasonable.

    And awesome!
     
  6. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski New Member

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    It is quite likely that all of my equipment is 90's 8-sp Campy. I confused the issue because I did get a 2002 vintage 9-sp wheelset built, and that I spaced for 8-sp to use with the 8-sp downtube levers and RD.

    One of my RDs is clearly newer but I cannot find any stamping on it to identify it.
     
  7. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Campagnolo introduced 8-speed in 1991, 9-speed in 1997, 10-speed in 2000 and 11-speed in 2008. Chorus usually had the same level of technology as the Record groups as far as the number of speeds.

    The 8-speed stuff is pretty outdated, but certainly not obsoleted. It will run, with minor rebuilds for decades. The question really boils down to jumping through hoops to retrofit it onto frames designed to accept components three or four generations changed from your older equipment.

    I don't recommend buying used carbon frames/forks as a rule, but perhaps you could find a NOS earlier generation carbon frame to hang your components on? Some of them had downtube bosses that would accept your shift levers.


    http://www.ebay.com/bhp/campagnolo-8-speed-shifters

    There's lots of old Campy out there on the market. And shopping for classic Campy is always fun! Like Alf said, weigh the economics and the mechanical issues and have fun. Good luck with your project!
     
  8. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski New Member

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    I don't believe I can go from square taper Campy to a frame with a BB86. The BB86 shell is 18.5mm wider than the BSA BB shell, so even if an adapter exists, the pedals would be noticeably farther apart.

    I used the Campy cranks on a Bianchi with BSA and on a Pinarello with an Italian BB. Both pedal distances apart were the same though, because the spindle length was the same.
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    You can buy modern carbon frames with threaded BB's that can use internal cups for square taper or external cups for UltraTorque style cranks.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/wilier-izoard-xp-frame?ti=UExQIEJyYW5kOkJpa2VzOjE6ODoxMDAwMDE0NzBfY2NDYXQxMDAxNTc&skidn=WLY0004-RD-M

    My Wilier Izoard XP frames are 68 MM wide English Threaded BB's and while I use a Chorus and Record UltraTorque cranks in them with external bearing cups, they could be fitted with one of my older Chorus, Record or Super Record square taper cranks (using the old style internal bearing cups) if the clearance was sufficient. A call to Competitive Cyclist or the manufacturer/re-seller of your choosing would confirm that.

    I agree that all the new standards and non-standards (boutique standards?) make re-using components a royal pain on the latest and greatest types of frames.

    Your front derailleur, if braze-on style mounting) would be used with a 4ZA adapter band clamp, but again...another minor thing that will cost a few dollars. Anew derailleur with the correct seat post clamp diameter or braze-on type with and adapter to replace your old band clamp type? Those 'little' conversion costs add up and are not an insignificant number to consider.
     
  10. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FWIW. Working on the presumption that you are ([COLOR=c0c0c0]still?[/COLOR]) trying to limit the total expense of building up the replacement frame ... The good news is that your "newer" rear derailleur looks like a 9-speed Chorus rear derailleur which I have ...
    • While I have NOT used my 9-speed Chorus rear derailleur with a 10-speed Cassette of any ilk, I have used a similar vintage ([COLOR=ffa500]same knuckles & similar outer parallelogram plate style[/COLOR]) Mirage rear derailleur with a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter + ([COLOR=0000ff]of course!?![/COLOR]) 9-speed Shimano Cassette ([color=c0c0c0]9-speed Shimano Cassettes are usable with a 10-speed Campagnolo shifters[/color]). By inference, your newer rear derailleur is probably interchangeable with the 9-/10-/11-speed Campagnolo rear derailleurs ... [color=ff0000]No Guarantees!!![/color]
    So, you could limit your immediate cost by:
    1. choosing either 10-or-11-speed Campagnolo Cassettes to use with your newer wheelset
    2. choosing the appropriate Campagnolo shifters
    3. EITHER updating the Freehub on the 8-speed hub with a current Freehub body at a later date ...
      • OR relacing the particular rim on a "new" Campagnolo rear hub OR relacing the particular rim on an either a 9-speed or 11-speed Shimano hub
      To state what might be obvious, 10-speed Campagnolo Cassettes are much LESS expensive than 11-speed Campagnolo or Shimano Cassettes. 9 speed Shimano Cassettes are comparatively cheap compared with 10-speed Shimano or any brand of 11-speed Cassette. 10-speed Shimano Cassettes seem to be index-compatible with 11-speed Shimano & 11-speed Campagnolo shifters.
    If you can DIY & if you are a wise shopper (eBay), then updating to the 10-speed Cassette + shifters/etc. will probably be under $200. 10-speed shifters are available with either the current-or-recent style shifters ... choose the one which suits your current aesthetic sensibilities.
    • the only (?) caveat with the newer shifters is that you will need a 4" T25 driver/-bit. for the earlier shifter styles, you will need a 5mm Allen wrench which has a 4" shaft.
    If you are wise shopper ([COLOR=c0c0c0]presuming that you do not need a new rear derailleur[/COLOR]), then your cost is the fore mentioned + a new chain + appropriate chain tool ([COLOR=c0c0c0]you will probably need a new one[/COLOR]) ...
    • BTW. I recommend a 9-speed Shimano chain ([COLOR=008000]why pay more?[/COLOR]).
    BTW. Because ramping on the Cogs makes indexing very forgiving, unless you detest the look of the current Campagnolo shifters, I think you should opt for a set of 11-speed Campagnolo ULTRA SHIFT shifters ...
    • While it may not seem immediately logical, if you opt for the 11-speed Campagnolo shifters AND a 9-speed Shimano hub to replace the 8-speed Campagnolo hub, then you can mate the 11-speed Campagnolo shifters with a 10-speed Shimano Cassette AND THEN pony up for an 11-speed Cassette to use with your Campagnolo hubbed wheel if-or-when the need-or-desire arises. Of course, if you don't want to use your 8-speed wheel for some reason, then you could just buy a wheel which has a Shimano/-compatible hub. If you want to configure your new bike as an 8-speed, then THAT is an option, of course ... And, you don't need to worry about changing your wheels. HOWEVER, I would like to note/[color=c0c0c0]repeat[/color]) that the ramping on post-2000 Cogs is vastly superior to the Cogs on your first-generation 8-speed Cassette AND probably better than the ramping (if it exists at all) on the Cogs on your newer wheelset.
     
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