New guy with 140ish FTP looking to hit 225 by May 2013

[ira41]

Originally Posted by scottz123 .

I agree with old guy.

If time is the problem = do a steady tempo for what time you have available.

Yeah I tend to agree as well, I have decided not to jump back into the plan I was on, rather try doing 5 days a week 60-120 minutes a day, mix of L2 and L4 work.

Last night did 60 minutes 20 minute warm up, 20 minutes in L4 and 20 minutes cooldown. I think Ill just build on that trying to do 2x20 at L4. I think the timecrunched plan is good for event specific stuff but the lack of volume at L4 is probablly what is kicking my ass now.


What do you guys think of me just doing say 4 days of L4 work 2x20 and one long L2 ride on the weekends?

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by ira41 . What do you guys think of me just doing say 4 days of L4 work 2x20 and one long L2 ride on the weekends?

That's basically what I am doing now, with the exception of the long L2 ride. I've been iffy on whether the long L2 stuff is the best use of my time as the weekends are also the best time for me to get a solid 2x20 in. Yesterday I did a solid 2x20 on the way out and then rode L2 back to home. I have an easier time hitting solid power on the weekends than during the work week and the L2 section was nice and relaxing after going nearly all-out for 40 min.

 

[Richard L]

I'm in the same boat with roughly 141w FTP. About six weeks ago, I did a flat out 20-min test on my relatively flat bicycle trail to determine my power. Got an AP of 148w and NP of 154w, according to my 2012 PowerTap G3 and Garmin Edge 500. Had to slow down several times due to bends and walkers on the trail. Using the AP value gives my FTP at around 141w - from my arms and shoulders on a racing handcycle. I've been doing a steady diet of 2x20's at 92-95% FTP on my indoor trainer and just recently switched over to doing 5-6x5x1's at 105% FTP in preparation for a marathon. Here is an example of such session I did last week (1 min rest between reps included):



I am curious. Do arms and shoulders have the same adaptation to training stress as legs? Any doc in the house?
I averaged only 19.2mph in a handcycle criterium four months ago and would like to bump up that average to 20+ mph. Do 2x20's help with crit performance?

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by Richard L .

I'm in the same boat with roughly 141w FTP. About six weeks ago, I did a flat out 20-min test on my relatively flat bicycle trail to determine my power. Got an AP of 148w and NP of 154w, according to my 2012 PowerTap G3 and Garmin Edge 500. Had to slow down several times due to bends and walkers on the trail. Using the AP value gives my FTP at around 141w - from my arms and shoulders on a racing handcycle. I've been doing a steady diet of 2x20's at 92-95% FTP on my indoor trainer and just recently switched over to doing 5-6x5x1's at 105% FTP in preparation for a marathon. Here is an example of such session I did last week (1 min rest between reps included):

[...]

I am curious. Do arms and shoulders have the same adaptation to training stress as legs? Any doc in the house?
I averaged only 19.2mph in a handcycle criterium four months ago and would like to bump up that average to 20+ mph. Do 2x20's help with crit performance?

Wow, impressive!

This should be an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, I know nothing about hand cycling, so I can't offer any answers to your questions. For leg cycling, I would guess 2x20 is decent training for a any event that lasts longer than about 8 minutes, but hand cycling might have a different threshold duration. It would be interesting to see your Mean Maximal Power Curve.

 

[Richard L]

I'm also interested in finding out my Mean Maximal Power Curve. What software would give me such curve? I didn't see it in Garmin Connect.

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by Richard L .

I'm also interested in finding out my Mean Maximal Power Curve. What software would give me such curve? I didn't see it in Garmin Connect.

I use WKO+ (http://home.trainingpeaks.com/products-desktop/wko.aspx). You might also be able to use Golden Cheetah (http://goldencheetah.org), but the chart might be called something else. The Mean Maximal Power Curve plots your personal best power for durations ranging from 1 sec to whatever you like (e.g. 1 hour). As an example, here is mine.


Don't too excited about it. I just thought it might be interesting to see how it compares to leg cycling.

 

[ira41]

So I started doing L4 work Sunday and Monday.

Sunday I was only able to do 2x12 at 133 watts
Monday I did 2x15
Tuesday was a rest day
Today I plan to try and get 2x20

I think I was pretty detrained from my 11 days off, on Nov 11th my last ride before the vacation my (Zone 2) HR was 111
when I came back it was 132, On Sunday it was 123ish.

I plan to do the L4 at current 133 watts until that becomes easy and I can do 3x20, then ill progress. for now I am skipping restarting the Time Crunched cyclist program in favor of the 2x20 and 3x20 at L4.

Any Idea of the weekly TSS I should be aiming for?

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by ira41 .

Any Idea of the weekly TSS I should be aiming for?

There is no simple answer. I think the best strategy is to ride as little as you can to get the fitness improvements you are happy with. However, human nature, including my own, tends to follow the strategy of ride as much as you can without causing sickness and injury. Personally, this year I've been able to sustain 100 TSS/day for extended periods with no sickness and a few injuries (calf strain/pain, saddle sores). Is 100 TSS/day optimal? I have no idea.

 

[ira41]

So last night was a good night, my HR seemed to return to normal and I was able to crank out 2x20 at 134 watts without issue.
I think im finally back to where I was before the vacation, I figure Ill do 2x20 at the same wattage for the next 3 days, rest Monday and see if I can up the Wattage a bit next Tuesday.

I am definetly feeling the difference between doing 8 minute SST intervals and the 2x20. I am glad I made the switch from the CTS plan and just steady diet of 2x20

 

[ira41]

So I am still trying to fine tune a plan that works. I am thinking doing 4 days of L4 a week maybe a reach for my current fitness level.

I am looking to back off and do 3 days per week of L4 work.
Monday 2x20
Tuesday Rest
Wednesday 2x20
Thursday Yoga
Friday 2x20
Saturday 90 minutes L2
Sunday 120minutes L2

I am planning my progression on being able to complete a third set of 20 minute L4 on interval days.

I figure once I can do 3x20 each day it will be time to increase wattage. I was not able to do back to back days @ 2x20 my second set suffered greatly so I figure giving a day between will be helpful.

The weakness above looks to be Mondays as I still feel my L2 rides the next day so I think 4 days on will make Mondays Brutal.
As my fitness improves I am hoping its becomes manageable.

Thoughts on the above? is it enough time in L4 per week?

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by ira41 .

So I am still trying to fine tune a plan that works. I am thinking doing 4 days of L4 a week maybe a reach for my current fitness level.

I am looking to back off and do 3 days per week of L4 work.
Monday 2x20
Tuesday Rest
Wednesday 2x20
Thursday Yoga
Friday 2x20
Saturday 90 minutes L2
Sunday 120minutes L2

I am planning my progression on being able to complete a third set of 20 minute L4 on interval days.

I figure once I can do 3x20 each day it will be time to increase wattage. I was not able to do back to back days @ 2x20 my second set suffered greatly so I figure giving a day between will be helpful.

The weakness above looks to be Mondays as I still feel my L2 rides the next day so I think 4 days on will make Mondays Brutal.
As my fitness improves I am hoping its becomes manageable.

Thoughts on the above? is it enough time in L4 per week?

That looks pretty close to my current plan. One difference is that I try to not do more than 3 days in a row. Another difference is that my L2/L3 rides are 3+ hours. But everyone is different. I don't think there is a magic formula.

 

[ira41]

Originally Posted by gudujarlson .


That looks pretty close to my current plan. One difference is that I try to not do more than 3 days in a row. Another difference is that my L2/L3 rides are 3+ hours. But everyone is different. I don't think there is a magic formula.

Yeah I wish I could do more on on L2 but, 2 hours is my mental limit on the trainer at the moment. I figure when I can ride outside I can log more time.

during spring I will do 32 miles a day commute, that's usually L3 range and try to log some 3-5 hour rides on the weekends. at that point ill probably move to power intervals once or twice a week and skip most of the L4 stuff, unless its out on rides where I hit the zone.

Then again I am new to this stuff so who knows all I can do is read, research and ride right now.

 

[gudujarlson]

I've never done more than 60 min indoors. I plan to ride outside as much as possible. It remains to be seen if I can safely do 90% FTP workouts on top of damp pavement, snow and ice with studded tires, as I've never attempted that.

 

[ira41]

Gains the fun part.

So Sunday I did 2 hours at L2 and was wondering if I would be able to do my 2x20 at L4 yesterday.
Not only was I able to do it but about 3 minutes into the ride the stiffness went away and the first two sets felt like L2/L3 work, so I added a third 20min, it felt a bit more of a workout.

I have been assuming my FTP is 145 watts and started doing my L4s at 134 watts last. I have about a week in and 134 is just too easy now.

Today is a rest day, tommorow I will do first set at 134 watts then try 145 for the second set. If 145 goes well that will be my new wattage for 20min.

I love being untrained at this point, after a disappointing week after vacation the body sure has responded well.

I also have a new goal, I want to do the Local MS century ride in 6 hours late May 2013. I figure I have 5.5 months to lose 10 lbs and add 70-90 watts to my FTP.

 

[ira41]

So yesterday i thought I was going to kill it.

I noticed my HR was a little raised starting out and I seemed to feel a bit tired.

I did a 10 minute warm up and then proceeded to do my first 20min at 134w
10 Minutes L2
Then tried my next 20min at 145w and could only hold it for 10minutes before needing to back down to 134w.

At this point I think I am fatigued and may need to throw and extra rest day in the mix while my body adjusts to training.
I can tell what type of session I am going to have based on my warm up HR, if its 111 to 119 warming up then i'll have a good time.
If its 125-132 then its going to be a rough one.

Today is a rest day, I think ill move fridays interval session to Saturday and then add some time to my Sunday L2 ride, that will give me two rest days in a row.

 

[ira41]

So it happened today.

I did 2x20, first set was at 135w, Second set was at 152w. After taking two days rest I would say today was pretty easy actually.

I don't think ill have much issue bumping my L4 sets from 132w to 152w.

 

[robertjuric]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

Agreed, training camps and periodic big blocks of training rock provided as you say that folks allow for recovery from those big digs.

From a CTL management perspective, most folks can sustain CTL ramp rates on the order of 3 to 5 points per week or a bit more for extended periods where steep ramps above 8 CTL points per week or so often lead to trouble when riders try that for too many consecutive weeks. But a single week of much steeper ramp rate during a camp or stage race isn't typically a problem as long as folks allow for adequate recovery afterwards.

-Dave

Sorry to circle back here, but I had a question regarding the training camp idea. When would it be ideal to work in a training camp style week? Earlier in a base period, or later closer to race season?

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by robertjuric .

... When would it be ideal to work in a training camp style week? Earlier in a base period, or later closer to race season?

IMO focused training camps are most valuable towards the end of a winter build. Some folks use them to kick start training after being off the bike but IME that can set up a difficult pattern of excessive fatigue followed by extra recovery instead of just getting started on a good sustainable build with more modest but consistent workouts.

I've personally found camps most valuable when I already have a lot of base and substantial fitness but can intentionally dig a very deep training hole during the camp. I'll still have to recover post camp but it's not so bad when I'm transitioning to a race-prep phase and can work that recovery week into the transition or as a lead up to that transition. It's also more fun to take time away from work and dedicate time to longer/harder rides when you're reasonably fit and can actually enjoy those longer rides.

-Dave

 

[smaryka]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

IMO focused training camps are most valuable towards the end of a winter build.

Which just happens to coincide (for me anyway) with the time I start to get really sick of all my cold/wet weather riding kit, foul roads, and lack of sunlight! Usually sometime in mid to late February for us as we go to the Canary Islands which have good weather through the winter. Others in Europe stick to Mallorca or mainland Spain where March to early April is likely to be a bit nicer. Where do people in the NE USA go?

 

[robertjuric]

I live in the SE USA but I won't be able to "go" anywhere. But the idea of taking a few days off work to focus on training sounds exciting.