New guy with 140ish FTP looking to hit 225 by May 2013

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by ira41, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Hi all its been about a month and despite slacking off during the holidays my 2x20 are now at 180w.

    I find increases daunting though as usually steps up, require me to mash a little more as I fall into the new Wattage I find holding my cadence easier.

    My weight is still the same around 83kg but I have been eating a ton and often with little regard to trimming down. I figure ill start to think of diet and dropping weight around March.

    Given the increase from 130ish to 180w I think the goal of 225w by May is doable. if I drop down to 77kg I'll be darn close to 3w/kg.

    All I am doing at this point is 2x20 and 3 times per week with longer rides on Sundays.
     


  2. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    IME, it's a much better idea to start dropping weight very slowly now as opposed to waiting till spring. Up to a pound or even pound and a half per week should have almost no impact on training and continued power progress but it gets much tougher to drop weight once more important events approach. A little at a time, starting sooner rather than later has worked best both for myself and the athletes I work with, waiting till the season starts typically does not work.

    YMMV,
    -Dave
     
  3. smaryka

    smaryka Member

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    +1

    Make little changes to start dropping weight now, don't wait.

    Smaller portions (use a smaller plate, it does work!), stop snacking after 7pm, drink a glass of water before eating a meal, etc. A few small easy but consistent changes that don't make you feel like you're on a "diet" will have you dropping half to one pound a week and that adds up. See where that takes you in March, then decide whether you can continue with your "non-depriving" way of eating or if you need to step it up more.

    Fwiw I often lose a few pounds come spring anyway as my body naturally drops a bit of winter insulation. But I don't use that as a license to eat a lot and put on tons of weight over winter!
     
  4. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Good advice guys,

    Im sitting right about 81.6 kg right now simply cutting out my post 8pm snacking. thats almost 1.5kg cut in less than a week. Im sure some of that is scale creep.
    I was doing about 400 calories after 8pm most nights, more habit than need. One of the things I love about cycling is the ability to not have to watch what I eat like a hawk.

    But message recevied loud and clear, focus on small incremental diet changes to get to wieght now vs trying to shave off via bigger changes later.
     
  5. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    Here is one suggestion that worked well for me last year, based entirely on Sufferfest videos. First, the Hunted. This is your test video. Kill that 20 minutes. Take 5 percent off that AP, and use it as your FTP. It's not the "formal" test, but it is repeatable. Then adjust up or down 5w if the intervals don't work. (As Dave has told me many times, it's self correcting. You will know quickly if you're too high.)

    Then One day: Hell hath no fury. (2x20 at FTP, 1x3:48 at vo2; "7" on the sufferscale = ftp). Day off. Next day: either the hunted, (1x5, 1x20, plus tempo), AVDP (5x4 at VO2), or Angels (3x8 at 105% or so) or any other of the videos you want (they are all pretty good but target different things. GOod thing abotu the vo2 focused ones is that they're short. Day off. Then one more trainer ride on Sat. (dial it back to Tempo/SST), plus a long group or solo ride per week unstructured outside to recharge your mental batteries. Day off after long ride. The key is to leave early in the AM. Once every couple of weeks, substitute Local Hero for HHNF. It's longer, but easier. And pay attention to your fatigue.

    The other alternative is just to work your way through one of the Trainer Road base plans. I have read good things. WIth a KK and a powertap and an ant stick, your laptop becomes a computrainer. HIt targets (keep the line green), and you're done. I have come to really enjoy the trainer. Not as much as outside, but it's become like weightlifting. (Note--if you do the 'fest videos on trainre road, you should dial ftp down 10 percent minimum).

    Good luck.
     
  6. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    my top learning in the last 7 days....

    GET OUT OF THE COMFORT ZONE!!!

    DONT FEAR IT - KICK IT UP A NOTCH AND GET STUCK INTO IT!!!

    eg - take those 2x20's you've been getting too comfortable at and shake them up a little. 3x15's at 190w, and add a minute to each interval per week. 2x20 but do the first 10 mins at 200w each time and gradually extend the time you push that... you might just surprise yourself ;)
     
  7. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Yeah I need soem variety, but it seems im always coming back from from slacking off, Vacation, holidays etc.

    Im trying to settle back into a good 2x20 routine, then i'll spice it up. currently 180w is definetly my 2x20 cap.
     
  8. matt76

    matt76 New Member

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    Sufferfest videos are very good for motivation and it also provides something variaty in Your training. Good to see that you are making progress!
     
  9. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    So,

    I have recently come to the conclusion I have been cycling with my seat height way too high. My fit indicates it should be set around 75cm from center of bottom bracket, I had it set to that but not following the seat tube so in reality it was set 76cm.

    I noticed this was a problem when I would get fatigued I would have some hip rocking, in addition my calves have been gaining massive size I think due to ankling.

    So I lowered the seat to 75cm and noticed a few things.

    1. More noticeable quad and hamstring fatigue after rides. more feeling in the knee, but not pain.
    2. Much more heavy breathing at same wattage, hard to hold wattage on my L4 rides due to breathing and increased HR

    Now my thought is I am now using more of my bigger muscles and need a bit to adapt to an increase in Oxygen use from using bigger muscles, its not that I wasn't using them before I just know I was placing a lot of the load on my calves.

    Does this seem reasonable?
     
  10. maxroadrash

    maxroadrash New Member

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    I'm not a physiologist so I wouldn't pretend to offer you advise but who did your bike fit in the first place and do you trust them? Moving the saddle a cm is something that would need time to adjust to. You might be reading too much into what you are experiencing.
     
  11. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    I had a bike fit done at a local shop on my hybrid some time ago they came out with a 75cm saddle height and 67 overall reach.

    I have since done the wrench science online fit which came out with the same saddle height and overall reach, Pretty sure I have my fore/aft ok with knee angles etc.

    I have also noticed minor lower back pain after lowering it, nothing too bad I was thinking it has more to do with Lack of core and tight hamstrings than position.

    I know my previous saddle height was too high, with heels on peddles at max extension I couldn't even stay on the bike with hips horizontal.
    I know lowering it changes bar drop and reach which could be putting more pressure on lower back.

    Soon I will be getting a new bike and will have another fit done.
     
  12. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    So after tinkering with my bike fit over the past couple fo weeks I think I have it dialed back in.
    I have found that I just cant see to progress past 180w for my L4 intervals.
    I have been able to cut the rest time between intervals from 10m to 5m.


    I do think I have figured out my training issues, I was trying 3x L4 rides per week and a long weekend ride.

    I was missing a bunch of days due to schedule and general demotivation, seems the missed days have been holding me back I think my body was not progressign with any trainign load.

    So the new approach is still to get 3x L4 rides per week, but also ride every other day I can in L2 or L3, I think I need to up the volume as I was only getting 3 hours per week.

    I think for me 180w is some sort of plateua I need to work through so I will probablly stick with that number a couple more weeks at least.
    one goal is to start commuting to work in spring which will be 160 miles per week, I think I need more volume to prepare for that as i've only been doing 45-60 miles per week so far. I have also dropped some weight downt to about 80kg.

    So I think my takeaway is up the volume maintain the intensity I was doing. hopefully with more volume if I have any missed days going forward wont stagnate me so much.
     
  13. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're on a good track. Yes, ride more than 3 hours and 45 miles per week. In fact ride more days than you don't ride or you'll be detraining for more days each week than you're training. Sure some rest is good but a lot of folks see big progress when they increase their riding to at least 5 days per week.

    In terms of power numbers, I strongly recommend NOT planning your L4 power target progress. Reading between the lines of your post above it seems you think you need to have a plan to increase past 180 at some scheduled date and have recently decided to hold back a bit more at 180 before moving to higher targets. I'd strongly suggest not viewing things from that perspective. Do the training, ride your bike a lot, do some days harder perhaps with the structure you've mentioned, ride some steadier moderate miles on other days and sometimes just ride the bike for fun in the sun or social and recovery reasons. Do all that and then follow the power as it increases but don't plan those increases in advance. IOW, the power will come as it will come and no one can plan when that will happen. Don't hold back on days when you feel great but don't struggle for power numbers that your body just isn't ready to sustain.

    But stick with the basics, ride more days than you don't ride, ride with structure on days when it makes sense to do so, ride longer on some days and easier on some days but basically work up to riding a lot and those power numbers should begin to climb.

    -Dave
     
  14. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Great advice as always Dave, we agree I think targeting increases is a bad idea. I am very much on board with progressing when the 180w just isnt feeling hard enough. Its why I havent tried to push past the 180w now as its still quite a challenge to complete. my mistake I think was takign a rest day when i didnt feel %100 recovered from the previous ride. I always wanted to put out my best efforts. I think what I have learned is to create adaptation I have to ride when im not %100 recovered from a previous ride.
     
  15. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and that's one of the reasons a balanced training plan is not entirely made up of hard, high end workout days. A good weekly plan has harder days scheduled when you're fresher, moderate ideally longer rides when you've got a bit less to give, and some easier days to keep your legs moving and to fill out your week. So accepting that you won't be 100% every time you ride and then crafting a plan that manages intensity to match your freshness will help you maintain training load and training frequency while still hitting your specific intensity targets on your better days.

    -Dave
     
  16. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    So I have increased my average days from 3 per week to 5, with two weeks down I have noticed.

    I can do 3 days in a row including two 2x20 at L4 days.
    My L2 time between sets has moved from 10 minutes to 5 minutes.

    I feel like I have finally pushed passed 180w, however I am sticking with the wattage until I have more volume adpatation, I figure another week and I will go for the next gear. Which should have me around 200w. What exicing about that is it puts my L2 around my starting ftp.

    With the weather around here not getting decent until April I have another 2 months of indoor training my goal is to have a 225w ftp by then, I should also be at 75kg which puts me just at 3w/kg.

    I started at 140w @ 88kg or around 1.6w/kg.

    That would be almost double the w/kg in 7 months all indoor riding.

    The crescendo is I have yet to flex this new power outside I can't wait, Just cant concieve what it will be like losing 30 lbs and adding 85w to my ftp. It whats makes being untrained and sucking worth it.
     
  17. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Nice job. Keep up the good work!

    -Dave
     
  18. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    So while taking a close look at my power tap files I was a bit dismayed to see that while I am maintaining 182w or so power for my 20 minute sets I am getting a lot of drift.

    example from last nights ride below.

    10 minute warmup, explains 10 minutes of Zone 2 and Zone 1, the rest is my 5 minute rest between sets
    what bothers me most is the near 14 minutes in zone 3. just sucks to push for 20 minutes to maintain wattage and have it all over the place. I feel like my peddling is pretty consistant outside of pulling my shorts out of my butt every 10 minutes or so.
    Zone 1 = 6:20
    Zone 2 = 9:29
    Zone 3 = 13.56
    Zone 4 = 27.23
    Zone 5 = 2:49
    Zone 6 = :07
     
  19. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I could simply say it will get better in time and diligence. At least that has been my experience since starting training with a power meter.

    Some people have the knack of being able to train with RPE and not keep an eye on the power display. When I am in a real intentional interval set where I have a defined goal (say 95% FT) I have to pretty much watch the display or I drift out of my target. If my target is loose like SST or a long weekend ride outside I am not a slave to the display and train more relaxed with only glancing at the display now and then.

    I also train primarily on rollers these days so that also makes holding a tight target a challenge. So what I do in my case to hit a 91% FT I tend to train a touch above that and typically at the end it averages out better for me.

    Another thing is not told in what you posted is you had 13:56 in Zone 3, but could it be what was parsed in Zone 3 was just a hair off from being parsed into Zone 4?
    Maybe it is not as bad as it seems? I figure that if I am at ~88% FT I am still counting it as training. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
  20. gudujarlson

    gudujarlson New Member

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    In my experience, it's really hard to maintain a power range much tighter than what you show; even indoors. In any case, if you are shooting for 87-93% of FTP your are right on the money because it is crosses the L3-L4 boundary.
     
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