new LED lights for this night commuting season?



V

Victor Kan

Guest
I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
lights listed.

NiteHawk AL
NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)

I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.

Cateye EL520
Cateye EL530

The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
non-round handlebar shapes.

Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
are they depowered Luxeon III lights?

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
 
C

Callistus Valerius

Guest

> I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
> lights listed.
>
> NiteHawk AL
> NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)
>
> I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.
>
> Cateye EL520
> Cateye EL530
>
> The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
> their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
> which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
> strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
> liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
> non-round handlebar shapes.
>
> Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
> there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
> are they depowered Luxeon III lights?

----------------
What I've read is that the K2 is better than the Lux V. Lasts 10 times
longer, more economical with power, and more light. Do the cateyes have the
K2 also? I sure like that cateye el 530, looks like a winner.
 
M

mike boersma

Guest
I have experience with the Cateye Opticube HL-500. It is a very bright
light and it will last 30-40 hours on alkaline AA batteries. I have
used it successfully on several 24 hour and brevet rides. For $40 or so
it is a Very good light.

But, with more power you get additional light and a bigger cone of
illumination.

For the ultimate in commuter lighting you may want to check out Dynohub
generator systems. Shimano and Schmidt make generators which are
incorporated into the front wheel and will power 6v lights (front and
back). The Shimano runs about $150-180 or so plus the cost of lights.
The Schmidt runs about $450 for the system. Both will give you "free"
power and plenty of light.

If you need more light than this, then look into 12v HID lights.
Expensive. Not a whole lot of run time. But loads of light.

Mike Boersma
Victor Kan wrote:
> I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
> lights listed.
>
> NiteHawk AL
> NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)
>
> I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.
>
> Cateye EL520
> Cateye EL530
>
> The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
> their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
> which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
> strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
> liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
> non-round handlebar shapes.
>
> Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
> there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
> are they depowered Luxeon III lights?
>
> --
> I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
> legitimate replies.
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
mike boersma wrote:
....
> For the ultimate in commuter lighting you may want to check out Dynohub
> generator systems. Shimano and Schmidt make generators which are
> incorporated into the front wheel and will power 6v lights (front and
> back). The Shimano runs about $150-180 or so plus the cost of lights.
> The Schmidt runs about $450 for the system. Both will give you "free"
> power and plenty of light.


Yes, I've given serious thought to dynamos. The problem is that I have
four bikes (or rather HPVs since one of them is a trike) that I'd like
to use for night riding duty and all four have different wheel sizes
(one dual 622/700c DF road bike, one dual 571/650c recumbent "high
racer", one dual 559/26" DF fixie, one 406/20" recumbent "tadpole
trike"), making hub generator solutions a very expensive proposition.

If I do get one, I'd probably build a 559 front wheel with a SON or
Shimano dynohub since I can use that wheel on two of the four bikes.

> If you need more light than this, then look into 12v HID lights.
> Expensive. Not a whole lot of run time. But loads of light.


HIDs have come down in price a lot, if you're OK not going with a
non-bike brand (check out batteryspace.com for a complete $200 HID
system using the same ballast and lamp as most of the big name stuff).

I don't think I want that much light though, or I could get plenty with
a home brew 12v/20w MR16 landscaping light for ~$40 total, which I
already have on the trike, but would take some work to adapt to the
other bikes.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
 
J

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Guest
Victor Kan wrote:
> ...
> Yes, I've given serious thought to dynamos. The problem is that I have
> four bikes (or rather HPVs since one of them is a trike) that I'd like
> to use for night riding duty and all four have different wheel sizes
> (one dual 622/700c DF road bike, one dual 571/650c recumbent "high
> racer", one dual 559/26" DF fixie, one 406/20" recumbent "tadpole
> trike"), making hub generator solutions a very expensive proposition....


How does one put a hub generator on a tadpole trike? I understand that
the rear Schmidt's Original Nabendynamo (SON) hub will NOT see
production. :(

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:

> How does one put a hub generator on a tadpole trike?


You're right, I'm not aware of a hub generator for a tadpole trike, but
the effect is the same--it's still a fourth kind of generator I'd need
to have generator-based lighting on all my HPVs that I'd like to use for
night time riding.

I suppose I could rig up a sidewall dynamo setup on all four, but I
don't think sharing between the platforms is at all practical as a
simple front wheel swap.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
 
D

David Damerell

Guest
Quoting Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <[email protected]>:
>How does one put a hub generator on a tadpole trike? I understand that
>the rear Schmidt's Original Nabendynamo (SON) hub will NOT see
>production. :(


I've been wondering if Frank's favourite bottom bracket dynamos are
compatible with some trikes.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Brieday, August.
 
David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <[email protected]>:
> >How does one put a hub generator on a tadpole trike? I understand that
> >the rear Schmidt's Original Nabendynamo (SON) hub will NOT see
> >production. :(

>
> I've been wondering if Frank's favourite bottom bracket dynamos are
> compatible with some trikes.


I've been wondering where I can buy another!

I recently moved a Soubitez bottom-bracket dynamo from my touring bike
to my new Bike Friday for a long trip. I really like that Soubitez
model, but the three I have are 20+ years old. (Testimony to their
longevity.) I'm sure they're out of production.

I've got an equally old Sanyo bottom bracket model in the drawer. But
it has half as many magnet poles per revolution, and (consequently?) it
doesn't generate enough light below 10 mph to suit me.

I may have to switch to a bottle (sidewall) generator on the touring
bike. But I like the bottom bracket mounting position better, even
though muddy riding surfaces can cause it to slip. The BB position is
away from interference with panniers, fenders, etc. and is quieter.

Regarding that last: I think the perceived drag of generators is
closely correlated with their noise. I think many folks who complain
about being slowed by their generator would not notice the resistance
if it were perfectly silent!

- Frank Krygowski
 
J

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Guest
David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman <[email protected]>:
> >How does one put a hub generator on a tadpole trike? I understand that
> >the rear Schmidt's Original Nabendynamo (SON) hub will NOT see
> >production. :(

>
> I've been wondering if Frank's favourite bottom bracket dynamos are
> compatible with some trikes.


Greenspeed [1] and ICE [2] offer dynamo mounts on several models.
Others, such as the Windcheetah "Speedy" [3] would require an
expensive, custom machined mount.

[1] <http://www.greenspeed.com.au/gtrrw04.jpg> and
<http://www.greenspeed.com.au/newsletter4.htm#5.%202004%20Trike%20Upgrades>.
[2]
<http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/images/trikes/options/dynamo_mount_large.jpg>
and <http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/trice_details_custom_model_features.htm>.
[3] <http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/HIGHREZ/tunney.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
 
Hi Victor,

I recently bought a DiNotte 5W
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1377408 . Are these new LEDs
really that much better than what I have? I looked at the HID
offerings, but they were too pricey for my blood. I simply can't
justify paying that kind of $ for a bike headlight.

I like the DiNotte O-ring mount, and the AA-battery design. If there is
a much better LED product on the market, could you please enlighten me?

TIA - Jay

Victor Kan wrote:
> I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
> lights listed.
>
> NiteHawk AL
> NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)
>
> I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.
>
> Cateye EL520
> Cateye EL530
>
> The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
> their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
> which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
> strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
> liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
> non-round handlebar shapes.
>
> Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
> there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
> are they depowered Luxeon III lights?
>
> --
> I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
> legitimate replies.
 
Y

youth

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi Victor,
>
> I recently bought a DiNotte 5W
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1377408 . Are these new LEDs
> really that much better than what I have? I looked at the HID
> offerings, but they were too pricey for my blood. I simply can't
> justify paying that kind of $ for a bike headlight.
>
> I like the DiNotte O-ring mount, and the AA-battery design. If there is
> a much better LED product on the market, could you please enlighten me?
>


Browsing a bike forum I discovered this site with some budget HID about the
same price as high quality LED's. Don't know how well they work & bulbs are
still expensive to replace, but it's tempting.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=738

g'day
youth
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Hi Victor,
>
> I recently bought a DiNotte 5W
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1377408 . Are these new LEDs
> really that much better than what I have?


I don't know if they're "better", just that they're new. The Cateye
lights I mentioned aren't really competition for the Dinotte 5W though,
at least in terms of output. In convenience maybe.

The one interesting light I mentioned that may be better than the
Dinotte 5W in some dimension is the Nite Hawk K2 light. I think it has
the potential to have the same/more output for less/same energy input,
so it could have longer runtime from the same battery at the same or
lower cost. And the Luxeon V used in the Dinotte has a shorter
life-to-degraded-output expectancy than the other Luxeons, though still
plenty of life for all but the most hard core nighttime riders.

> I looked at the HID
> offerings, but they were too pricey for my blood. I simply can't
> justify paying that kind of $ for a bike headlight.


There are HIDs with Li-Ion batteries and smart chargers that are the
same non-sale-plus-coupon-from-PerfBar-mail-order-price as the Dinotte
5W, i.e. ~$200. Someone else already posted a URL to one.

> I like the DiNotte O-ring mount, and the AA-battery design. If there is
> a much better LED product on the market, could you please enlighten me?


I like that arrangement and its compactness as well. For the $$$
though, I think the CygoLite Dual-Cross and Blackburn X6, both with dual
Luxeon III LEDs, are interesting.

One particularly interesting thing about the Blackburn design is that
they put the power control electronics in a serviceable battery pack
rather than the lamp head. That would seem good because from what I've
read, LEDs work best when cool (so the heat from the electronics don't
add to the heat there), while batteries work best when kept warm (so the
heat from the electronics actually does some good to keep the battery
warm during winter riding).

I'm thinking about getting that inexpensive HID system (originally
intended as an aftermarket headlight for ATVs, and from all appearances
exactly the same HID as the Topeak Moonshine HID), but the HID
durability aspect keeps making me think twice, as well as having a high
voltage ballast in such close proximity to my person.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
 
K

Kevin McMurtrie

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Victor Kan <[email protected]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote:

> I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
> lights listed.
>
> NiteHawk AL
> NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)
>
> I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.
>
> Cateye EL520
> Cateye EL530
>
> The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
> their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
> which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
> strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
> liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
> non-round handlebar shapes.
>
> Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
> there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
> are they depowered Luxeon III lights?


I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs. I'm new
to surface mount parts so there's been some expensive trial and error
involved. Nobody makes good through-the-hole parts anymore. A
prototype was working very well before I accidentally fried the power
supply. New parts are in the mail.

I'll post links to photos when I get it semi-working. I'm scared about
building the carbon fiber body. If I screw it up, I'll have $250 worth
of parts and days worth of labor entombed inside. I need a design
that's a bit fault tolerant or repairable.
 
C

Crescentius Vespasianus

Guest

> I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs. I'm new
> to surface mount parts so there's been some expensive trial and error
> involved. Nobody makes good through-the-hole parts anymore. A
> prototype was working very well before I accidentally fried the power
> supply. New parts are in the mail.
>
> I'll post links to photos when I get it semi-working. I'm scared about
> building the carbon fiber body. If I screw it up, I'll have $250 worth
> of parts and days worth of labor entombed inside. I need a design
> that's a bit fault tolerant or repairable.

---------------
Be sure you have the welding goggles on,
when you first light your creation up.
Won't this kind of light blind every car
that comes at you? But it could come in
handy, lighting football fields, or
construction sites at night.
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
On Sep 20, 1:28 am, Kevin McMurtrie <[email protected]> wrote:
....
> I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs.


What current level are you going to run them at? I can't imagine what
12 Rebel-100 LEDs would be like as a bike light if you ran them near
max. Are you going to run them at lower power for max efficiency with
the high number of emitters making up the difference in output?

I recently got a Fenix L2DCE, single CREE XRE LED flashlight and find
it pretty good so far, if a little narrow, for road riding.
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Victor Kan <[email protected]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote:
>
>> I just got a new Nashbar catalog today and there are a few new LED
>> lights listed.
>>
>> NiteHawk AL
>> NiteHawk K2 Digital (the first Luxeon K2-based bike light I've seen)
>>
>> I don't see these listed on the nite-hawk.com site.
>>
>> Cateye EL520
>> Cateye EL530
>>
>> The two Cateye lights are rated to have about 50% more candlepower than
>> their predecessors (the EL510, which I haven't seen, and the EL500,
>> which I have and like a lot for what it is), and seem to have a new
>> strap-based mounting system rather than the previous clamp style. I
>> liked the previous ones just fine, but the new one may work well with
>> non-round handlebar shapes.
>>
>> Does anyone have details on what else is really different, like are
>> there more electronics in the lights to drive them with more power? Or
>> are they depowered Luxeon III lights?

>
> I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs. I'm new
> to surface mount parts so there's been some expensive trial and error
> involved. Nobody makes good through-the-hole parts anymore. A
> prototype was working very well before I accidentally fried the power
> supply. New parts are in the mail.
>
> I'll post links to photos when I get it semi-working. I'm scared about
> building the carbon fiber body. If I screw it up, I'll have $250 worth
> of parts and days worth of labor entombed inside. I need a design
> that's a bit fault tolerant or repairable.


$250 for a bicycle light case?
From reading my spam, it seems you can own a woman to run in front with
a coleman lantern and still not spend that much. A $250 bicycle light
case must be lightweight and aerodynamic I suppose.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
On Sep 20, 2:24 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

....
> > I'll post links to photos when I get it semi-working. I'm scared about
> > building the carbon fiber body. If I screw it up, I'll have $250 worth
> > of parts and days worth of labor entombed inside. I need a design
> > that's a bit fault tolerant or repairable.

>
> $250 for a bicycle light case?


My guess is $250 for 12 Luxeon Rebel LEDs, power drivers, etc.
"entombed inside", not for the case itself.
 
S

SMS

Guest
Victor Kan wrote:
> On Sep 20, 1:28 am, Kevin McMurtrie <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>> I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs.

>
> What current level are you going to run them at? I can't imagine what
> 12 Rebel-100 LEDs would be like as a bike light if you ran them near
> max. Are you going to run them at lower power for max efficiency with
> the high number of emitters making up the difference in output?


I can't imagine how to dissipate all that heat! Contrary to what some
people think, LEDs have heat issue just like filament based bulbs, just
from different sources.

> I recently got a Fenix L2DCE, single CREE XRE LED flashlight and find
> it pretty good so far, if a little narrow, for road riding.


Also note that Performance has a 20% off code for the next two days,
plus a bunch of lights on sale.

"http://www.performancebike.com/performance_bike_coupon_code.cfm?cm_re=C1-_-flash-_-cpn"
"http://www.performancebike.com/shop/item_list.cfm?estore_ID=1359&cm_re=C1-_-flash-_-TrainLight"

Still, it's tough to beat the Fenix L2DCE at $53.50 It puts out more
light than the 5W DiNotte, though the down side is that it takes only 2
batteries so the run time is less between battery swaps (not really a
big deal, but it means carrying extra AA batteries rather than having
them in the battery pack on the DiNotte).

Someone into dynamo lights should build a rectification/DC-DC converter
that can power one or two Fenix L2DCE lamps (what's essentially inside
the SolidLight 1203D. Actually, what would be good enough would be to
charge two AA batteries while two are operating the light. It'd be a lot
easier to do a dynamo based charger than to generate a clean 3 VDC at
high efficiency. Plus you could be charging the batteries in the daytime
as well. If you really want to get fancy, design it so the dynamo is
connected to the charger only when on level or downhill terrain, or when
braking, and not connected on uphills.

Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
 
On Sep 19, 10:28 pm, Kevin McMurtrie <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm building a light using 12 Luxeon Rebel LXML-PWC1-0100 LEDs. I'm new
> to surface mount parts so there's been some expensive trial and error
> involved. Nobody makes good through-the-hole parts anymore. A
> prototype was working very well before I accidentally fried the power
> supply. New parts are in the mail.
>
> I'll post links to photos when I get it semi-working. I'm scared about
> building the carbon fiber body. If I screw it up, I'll have $250 worth
> of parts and days worth of labor entombed inside. I need a design
> that's a bit fault tolerant or repairable.


If heat dissipation is going to be an issue, and it sounds like
it will be, you would probably be better off using an
aluminum enclosure rather than carbon fiber. Other than the
ability to mold CF into interesting shapes, I'm not sure that
CF offers any advantages in this application, since you're
probably not critically dependent on strength/weight or stiffness.

Ben
 
V

Victor Kan

Guest
On Sep 20, 3:36 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Victor Kan wrote:

....
> I can't imagine how to dissipate all that heat! Contrary to what some
> people think, LEDs have heat issue just like filament based bulbs, just
> from different sources.


That's why I was wondering if he'd run them at lower power where
they're more efficient, with less waste heat.

....
> Still, it's tough to beat the Fenix L2DCE at $53.50 It puts out more
> light than the 5W DiNotte, though the down side is that it takes only 2
> batteries so the run time is less between battery swaps (not really a
> big deal, but it means carrying extra AA batteries rather than having
> them in the battery pack on the DiNotte).


>From the numbers I've seen, the Fenix L2DCE on max lasts as long on

two 2650mAh AA NiMH cells as the DiNotte Ultra 5 on max on four
2300mAh AA NiMH cells with similar light output.