New Pro Teams, etc

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Greg Avon, Jan 23, 2003.

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  1. Greg Avon

    Greg Avon Guest

    I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    this season. Actually, I expected many more negative comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes
    instead of sitting in front of the computer all day?).

    Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something good
    for the sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.

    I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do not hide behind an
    anonymous post.

    Flame away,

    Greg

    www.KissenaSports.com
     
    Tags:


  2. Ronde Champ

    Ronde Champ Guest

    "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    > this season. Actually, I expected many more
    negative
    > comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    > all day?).
    >
    > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    > good for the sport and
    create
    > an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    not
    > hide behind an anonymous post.
    >
    > Flame away,
    >
    > Greg

    I have a question. What are the chances of you signing David Sommerville? He's been putting in 20+
    hours a week you know.

    Thanks, Ronde Champ
     
  3. Canuck

    Canuck Guest

    "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    > this season. Actually, I expected many more
    negative
    > comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    > all day?).
    >
    > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    > good for the sport and
    create
    > an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    not
    > hide behind an anonymous post.
    >
    > Flame away,
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > www.KissenaSports.com

    IMO, the formation of so many new teams is out of whack with the number of reasonable riders that
    are available.

    There are only 40 or 50 riders who are capable of influencing the outcome of an NRC race.

    Having more teams doesn't change that, especially since the riders on those new teams don't get
    paid, therefore those riders cannot train any more than previous seasons.

    Thus, the new teams are nothing more than regional Cat 1 teams with a new "Pro" wrapper.
     
  4. >Subject: New Pro Teams, etc From: "Greg Avon"

    > I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something good for the
    > sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.

    Making more "pro" riders isn't good for the sport. How much does it cost your team to register as a
    DIII? Wouldn't that money be better spent on your riders? Either in wages or using that money to go
    races in Europe or Canada or Central America? And don't tell me it makes it easier to get
    sponsorship dollars, cause that's total bullshit. Maybe you get a few more free tires if you are
    "pro" instead of "elite", but since the pros and 1's and 2's race together all the time anyway, how
    do you explain that to a sponsor? It might be worth it if there were pro only races that were worth
    doing for a DIII team. But honestly, what is getting last at Beauce going to do for your riders
    development? Let them develop glandular fever? The way it stands right now 1/2 to 2/3's of these new
    DIII teams won't get rides at First Union Week, so again I ask- what's the point?

    Just cause it says pro on your license doesn't mean you are any good. If anything it just means more
    assholes who think the world owes them something. How many first time sponsors will get burned by a
    bunch of wankers who paid thier own dIII registration fee? A bunch I bet.

    -----Sharon Peters Personal Trainer to the Stars-------- Remove "No Junk" to reply please!!!
     
  5. Amit

    Amit Guest

    "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    > this season. Actually, I expected many more negative comments (maybe you guys are riding your
    > bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer all day?).
    >
    > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    > good for the sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do not hide behind an
    > anonymous post.
    >

    What surprises me is the explosion of Div III teams this year. Why didn't this happen earlier ?
    What's changed ? The only theory I have is the popularity of the NYC and SF Crit championships.
    Having your guys out there racing Lance Armstrong and USPS goes a lot further than actual results in
    what're recognized as "major races" (like Housatonic or Somerville or whatever).

    USPro/Corestates has always been around, so it's not like that's a new reason to start a pro team,
    but it adds to the equation.

    The ironic thing is, with all the DIII teams, many of them won't get a ride in the big shows.

    -Amit
     
  6. Ryan Barrett

    Ryan Barrett Guest

    "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    > this season. Actually, I expected many more negative comments (maybe you guys are riding your
    > bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer all day?).
    >
    > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    > good for the sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do not hide behind an
    > anonymous post.
    >
    > Flame away,
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > www.KissenaSports.com

    That's great that you are starting a pro team. I do think USPro will have to make some requirements
    in the next year or so for the bigger races- Philly, San Fran because there will just be too many
    teams. It would be nice if teams could exist with a minimum wage for D3, but that's just not the
    reality. Best of luck
     
  7. --------------030502060802010200080107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01

    ronde champ wrote:

    >"Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    >>this season. Actually, I expected many more
    >>
    >negative
    >
    >>comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    >>all day?).
    >>
    >>Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    >>coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    >>good for the sport and
    >>
    >create
    >
    >>an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >>
    >>I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    >>
    >not
    >
    >>hide behind an anonymous post.
    >>
    >>Flame away,
    >>
    >>Greg
    >>
    >
    >
    >I have a question. What are the chances of you signing David Sommerville? He's been putting in 20+
    >hours a week you know.
    >
    >Thanks, Ronde Champ
    >
    davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01

    Thanks,

    Maurice Freiburg

    --------------030502060802010200080107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    <html> <head> </head> <body> davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01<br> <br> ronde champ
    wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> <pre
    wrap="">"Greg Avon" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in
    message<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]
    v.net">news:[email protected]</a>...<br></pre> <blockquote
    type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the
    formation<br>of new DIII Pro teams this season. Actually, I expected many more<br></pre>
    </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->negative<br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">comments
    (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front<br>of the computer all
    day?).<br><br>Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to<br>grow our
    program in the coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough<br>to realize we are just trying to
    do something good for the sport and<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->create<br></pre>
    <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.<br><br>I
    would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre
    wrap=""><!---->not<br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">hide behind an anonymous
    post.<br><br>Flame away,<br><br>Greg<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br>I have a
    question. What are the chances of you signing David Sommerville?<br>He's been putting in 20+ hours a
    week you know.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Ronde Champ</pre> </blockquote>
    davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01<br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Maurice<br> Freiburg<br>
    <br> <br> </body> </html>

    --------------030502060802010200080107--
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Guest

    I remember when a bunch of local guys were moaning about a guy that nobody knew how he went from
    3-->2 for starters.......then he was a pro?!?!?!?

    I guess it is just a matter of the paperwork (doesn't mean you will get a ride....)

    On 1/14/03 10:35 AM, in article [email protected], "Sharon Peters"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Subject: New Pro Teams, etc From: "Greg Avon"
    >
    >> I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something good for the
    >> sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > Making more "pro" riders isn't good for the sport. How much does it cost your team to register as
    > a DIII? Wouldn't that money be better spent on your riders? Either in wages or using that money to
    > go races in Europe or Canada or Central America? And don't tell me it makes it easier to get
    > sponsorship dollars, cause that's total bullshit. Maybe you get a few more free tires if you are
    > "pro" instead of "elite", but since the pros and 1's and 2's race together all the time anyway,
    > how do you explain that to a sponsor? It might be worth it if there were pro only races that were
    > worth doing for a DIII team. But honestly, what is getting last at Beauce going to do for your
    > riders development? Let them develop glandular fever? The way it stands right now 1/2 to 2/3's of
    > these new DIII teams won't get rides at First Union Week, so again I ask- what's the point?
    >
    > Just cause it says pro on your license doesn't mean you are any good. If anything it just means
    > more assholes who think the world owes them something. How many first time sponsors will get
    > burned by a bunch of wankers who paid thier own dIII registration fee? A bunch I bet.
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Sharon Peters Personal Trainer to the Stars-------- Remove "No Junk" to reply please!!!
     
  9. --------------090900040207040102030704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Maurice de Muer wrote:

    > ronde champ wrote:
    >
    >>"Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    >>>this season. Actually, I expected many more
    >>>
    >>negative
    >>
    >>>comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    >>>all day?).
    >>>
    >>>Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    >>>coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    >>>good for the sport and
    >>>
    >>create
    >>
    >>>an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >>>
    >>>I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    >>>
    >>not
    >>
    >>>hide behind an anonymous post.
    >>>
    >>>Flame away,
    >>>
    >>>Greg
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>I have a question. What are the chances of you signing David Sommerville? He's been putting in 20+
    >>hours a week you know.
    >>
    >>Thanks, Ronde Champ
    >>
    > davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Maurice Freiburg

    Forgot to ask my Pennsylvania friends: that's former Noble House pro Alex Lavalle isn't it?

    Maurice, Freiburg

    --------------090900040207040102030704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    <html> <head> </head> <body> Maurice de Muer wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:[email protected]">ronde champ wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:[email protected]"> <pre wrap="">"Greg Avon" <a
    class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in
    message<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]
    v.net">news:[email protected]</a>...<br></pre> <blockquote
    type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the
    formation<br>of new DIII Pro teams this season. Actually, I expected many more<br></pre>
    </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->negative<br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">comments
    (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front<br>of the computer all
    day?).<br><br>Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to<br>grow our
    program in the coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough<br>to realize we are just trying to
    do something good for the sport and<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->create<br></pre>
    <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.<br><br>I
    would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre
    wrap=""><!---->not<br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">hide behind an anonymous
    post.<br><br>Flame away,<br><br>Greg<br></pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br>I have a
    question. What are the chances of you signing David Sommerville?<br>He's been putting in 20+ hours a
    week you know.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Ronde Champ</pre> </blockquote>
    davidsommerville.com/oldsite/photographymtholly01<br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Maurice<br>
    Freiburg</blockquote> Forgot to ask my Pennsylvania friends: that's former Noble House pro Alex
    Lavalle isn't it?<br> <br> Maurice, <br> Freiburg<br> <br> </body> </html>

    --------------090900040207040102030704--
     
  10. This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C2BBCA.AB716B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hello Greg and welcome to the evil depths of bicycling life that is RBR,

    Yes thats Alex Lavalamp, Damn is that guy fast and funny. He deserves a Pro deal. Really deserves a
    Pro deal. Eneas is also in the photo, who is on the new Pro team

    David Sommerville was not really good enough for the Kissena Elite = Program. (My own words not
    Greg's) I was like 11th guy in the program, a Fringe wanker type, and well I was = not ever really
    officially a member. Tried real hard but just was not ready nor could handle the jump up in = level.
    Got to do some rides for the team here and there which was great.

    Ronde, there is a very small chance (like no chance) of David = Sommerville getting signed by
    Kissena Pro Sports. Just not in the cards or stars.. I am not good enough to turn Pro and I =
    am too old.

    I did "sign" with Kissena Cycling club. Well I did have to sign a club = release form. Got 2 pair of
    socks and a hat as a signing bonus.

    Having RBR around in my life has given me a reality check.

    You guys are so great!
    =20
    (Flip switch and enter kiss ass mushy mode)

    David Sommerville "Staying wankie cat 1" Forgot to ask my Pennsylvania friends: that's former Noble
    House pro = Alex Lavalle isn't it?

    Maurice,=20 Freiburg

    ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C2BBCA.AB716B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META
    http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML
    6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Greg and welcome to the evil = depths of=20 bicycling life
    that is RBR,</FONT></DIV>
    <DV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DVI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes thats Alex Lavalamp, </FONT><FONT = face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>Damn is that guy fast and funny.</FONT></DIV>
    <DVII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He deserves a Pro deal. Really deserves = a Pro=20
    deal.</FONT></DIV>
    <DVIII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Eneas is also in the photo, who is on = the new Pro=20
    team</FONT></DIV>
    <DIX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>David Sommerville was not really good = enough for=20 the
    Kissena Elite Program. (My own words not Greg's)</FONT></DIV>
    <DXI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was like 11th guy in the program, a = Fringe wanker=20 type,
    and well I was not ever really officially a member.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tried real hard but just was not ready = nor could=20 handle the
    jump up in level.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXIII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Got to do some rides for the team here = and there=20 which was
    great.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DXV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ronde, there is a very small chance = (like no=20 chance) of
    David Sommerville getting signed by Kissena Pro = Sports.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXVI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just not in the cards or stars.. I am = not good=20 enough to
    turn Pro and I am too old.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXVII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DXVIII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I did "sign" with Kissena Cycling club. = Well I did=20 have to
    sign a club release form.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXIX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Got 2 pair of socks and a hat as a = signing=20
    bonus.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXX><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DXXI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Having RBR around in my life has given = me a reality=20
    check.</FONT></DIV>
    <DXXII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DXXIII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You guys are so great!</FONT></DIV>
    <DXXIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
    <DXXV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(Flip switch and enter kiss ass mushy=20 mode)</FONT></DIV>
    <DXXVI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DXXVII><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>David Sommerville "Staying wankie cat=20 1"</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
    BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DXXVIII>Forgot to ask my Pennsylvania friends: that's former Noble House = pro Alex=20 Lavalle
    isn't it?<BR><BR>Maurice,=20 <BR>Freiburg<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

    ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C2BBCA.AB716B00--
     
  11. >Subject: Re: New Pro Teams, etc From: [email protected] (Amit)

    >Having your guys out there racing Lance Armstrong and USPS goes a lot further than actual results
    >in what're recognized as "major races" (like Housatonic or Somerville or whatever).

    Dude- Somerville hasn't been a big race in five years. It's a living example of the death of
    American bicycle racing. -Dude
     
  12. >Subject: Re: New Pro Teams, etc From: "Canuck" [email protected] Date: 1/14/03 10:26 AM Central
    >Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >
    >"Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    >> this season. Actually, I expected many more
    >negative
    >> comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    >> all day?).
    >>
    >> Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    >> coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    >> good for the sport and
    >create
    >> an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >>
    >> I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    >not
    >> hide behind an anonymous post.
    >>
    >> Flame away,
    >>
    >> Greg
    >>
    >> www.KissenaSports.com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >IMO, the formation of so many new teams is out of whack with the number of reasonable riders that
    >are available.
    >
    >There are only 40 or 50 riders who are capable of influencing the outcome of an NRC race.
    >
    >Having more teams doesn't change that, especially since the riders on those new teams don't get
    >paid, therefore those riders cannot train any more than previous seasons.
    >
    >Thus, the new teams are nothing more than regional Cat 1 teams with a new "Pro" wrapper.

    I responded to this in the thread titled: Rank these US teams....with my ranking projections. These
    new pro teams are just glorified sub-Elite Am teams. No more, n less. Why not spend that $10,500 on
    travel to about 5 NRC races or a couple of trips overseas??? $10,500 is alot of money for people to
    able to say that they are "pro".

    I can't wait for the first race when these D3 wankers realize that it takes talent to win races, not
    a "pro" license.

    All that these teams are doing is diluting the "pro" product by sending a bunch of sub-standard
    Category 1/2 riders out into big races. They would be better off staying in the amateur ranks and
    getting some good experience and doing some extended travel schedules. Philly,SF,NYC,USPRO crit are
    the only races that Amateurs are not allowed to
    do. There is still alot of NRC racing to be had without "going pro"...

    my 2 cents, jason
     
  13. Ronde Champ

    Ronde Champ Guest

    I liked how Greg Avon posted his message and then said he would answer non-anonymous posters...then
    like 10 anonymous posters started posting shit. (I think Waddell was the only 'real' person to post
    anything.).

    "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the formation of new DIII Pro teams
    > this season. Actually, I expected many more
    negative
    > comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in front of the computer
    > all day?).
    >
    > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > coming years. I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something
    > good for the sport and
    create
    > an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    not
    > hide behind an anonymous post.
    >
    > Flame away,
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > www.KissenaSports.com
     
  14. Sharon Peters wrote:
    >
    > >Subject: New Pro Teams, etc From: "Greg Avon"
    >
    > > I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something good for the
    > > sport and create an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > Making more "pro" riders isn't good for the sport. How much does it cost your team to register as
    > a DIII? Wouldn't that money be better spent on your riders? Either in wages or using that money to
    > go races in Europe or Canada or Central America? And don't tell me it makes it easier to get
    > sponsorship dollars, cause that's total bullshit. Maybe you get a few more free tires if you are
    > "pro" instead of "elite", but since the pros and 1's and 2's race together all the time anyway,
    > how do you explain that to a sponsor? It might be worth it if there were pro only races that were
    > worth doing for a DIII team. But honestly, what is getting last at Beauce going to do for your
    > riders development? Let them develop glandular fever? The way it stands right now 1/2 to 2/3's of
    > these new DIII teams won't get rides at First Union Week, so again I ask- what's the point?
    >
    > Just cause it says pro on your license doesn't mean you are any good. If anything it just means
    > more assholes who think the world owes them something. How many first time sponsors will get
    > burned by a bunch of wankers who paid thier own dIII registration fee? A bunch I bet.

    This is the funniest post of the week. I don't even miss Kunich.
     
  15. Jason Waddell wrote:

    > races or a couple of trips overseas??? $10,500 is alot of money for people to able to say that
    > they are "pro".

    Has the $12K dream been downgraded due to the state of the US economy? STF
     
  16. Sharon Peters wrote:
    > Dude- Somerville hasn't been a big race in five years. It's a living example of the death of
    > American bicycle racing. -Dude

    Somerville's a boring crit. Crit's getting replaced in the cycling hierarchy isn't a sign of death,
    it's a sign of improvement.

    Stage 1 Sea Otter Classic Stage Race is going to be an epic circuit through the hills around Redwood
    City, CA, starting and finishing downtown. I was at the City Council meeting where it received 7-0
    support. This is racing. Not a crit.

    Dan
     
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Guest

    "ronde champ" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I liked how Greg Avon posted his message and then said he would answer non-anonymous
    > posters...then like 10 anonymous posters started posting
    shit.
    > (I think Waddell was the only 'real' person to post anything.).

    I don't need a response from him in expressing my opinion that there aren't enough competitive
    riders to fill all the D3 team roster slots.

    The whole exercise is simply a re-badging of regional Cat 1 teams.

    If those D3 teams paid the riders a living wage, giving the riders a chance to train full-time, then
    it'd be different. Such is not the case.

    I could slap a Porshe badge on my Chevy, but underneath the hood, its still a Chevy.
     
  18. Greg Avon

    Greg Avon Guest

    "Sharon Peters" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: New Pro Teams, etc From: "Greg Avon"
    >
    > > I hope most of you are smart enough to realize we are just trying to do something good for the
    > > sport and
    create
    > >an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    >
    > Making more "pro" riders isn't good for the sport.

    That alone is not good for the sport. I should have been more specific and said that taking another
    step toward our eventual goal of providing a clear development structure for young riders from
    Junior to Elite Amateur to Pro is good for the sport.

    > How much does it cost your
    > team to register as a DIII?

    $5,500 is the fee (plus you are required to post a bank guarantee of at least $5,000)

    >Wouldn't that money be better spent on your riders? Either in wages or using that money to go races
    >in Europe or
    Canada or
    > Central America?

    $5500 is not enough money for a supported team trip to Europe, we already go to Canada when
    appropriate and we're not interested in sending the team to Central America.

    >And don't tell me it makes it easier to get sponsorship dollars, cause that's total bullshit.

    It definitely has made it easier to find sponsorship, although it still requires an incredible
    amount of work.

    > It might be worth it if there were pro only races that were worth doing
    for a
    > DIII team. But honestly, what is getting last at Beauce going to do for
    your
    > riders development?

    Our amateur team competed at Beauce a number of times finishing higher than some of the pro teams.
    Doing tougher races (like Beauce) is an important part of developing riders.

    . . .
    > -----Sharon Peters Personal Trainer to the Stars--------
     
  19. Greg Avon

    Greg Avon Guest

    "Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Greg Avon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > I am not surprised there has been some criticism surrounding the
    formation
    > > of new DIII Pro teams this season. Actually, I expected many more
    negative
    > > comments (maybe you guys are riding your bikes instead of sitting in
    front
    > > of the computer all day?).
    > >
    > > Yes, we are adding a DIII team to be announced in a few days and hope to grow our program in the
    > > coming years. I hope most of you are smart
    enough
    > > to realize we are just trying to do something good for the sport and
    create
    > > an opportuntiy for a few more riders to develop.
    > >
    > > I would be happy to address any question or criticism as long as you do
    not
    > > hide behind an anonymous post.
    > >
    >
    > What surprises me is the explosion of Div III teams this year. Why didn't this happen earlier ?
    > What's changed ? The only theory I have is the popularity of the NYC and SF Crit championships.

    San Fran and NYC were a factor, but also its getting pretty hard to hold an amateur program
    together. Many riders are lured away from amateur programs by the many TT/III teams.

    Having your
    > guys out there racing Lance Armstrong and USPS goes a lot further than actual results in what're
    > recognized as "major races" (like Housatonic or Somerville or whatever).

    Very true as far as the sponsors are concerned.

    >
    > USPro/Corestates has always been around, so it's not like that's a new reason to start a pro team,
    > but it adds to the equation.
    >
    > The ironic thing is, with all the DIII teams, many of them won't get a ride in the big shows.
    >
    > -Amit
     
  20. Wade Summers

    Wade Summers Guest

    Jason Waddell wrote in message
    <[email protected]>...
    >All that these teams are doing is diluting the "pro" product by sending a
    bunch
    >of sub-standard Category 1/2 riders out into big races. They would be
    better
    >off staying in the amateur ranks and getting some good experience and doing some extended travel
    >schedules. Philly,SF,NYC,USPRO crit are the only races that Amateurs are not allowed
    to
    >do. There is still alot of NRC racing to be had without "going pro"...
    >
    >my 2 cents, jason

    And to add to your point Jason, if I may. Both the NYC event and USPRO crit weekend have races for
    just the elite riders or P1/2 events, most notably the Elite (Cat 1) Criterium Championships. So
    even those events offer a forum for elite amateurs to show their stuff. This rash of Div3 teams is a
    bunch of guys wanting to say they are pro.

    Wade
     
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