New Road frame,its called NEO Exile!!



alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
155
0
Felt_Rider said:
But I do have a new rear wheel coming that I am excited about and I hope it turns out to be a good purchase.

Kinlin xr-300 (niobium), Cxray spokes, powertap sl hub

I've got a set of clinchers built around Kinlin niobium rims, CX-Rays, and WI H1 hubs. They're excellent: reliable; durable; and with a complete lack of decals, they maximize blackness as good wheels should.
 

Felt_Rider

Active Member
Oct 24, 2004
3,257
27
48
alienator said:
I've got a set of clinchers built around Kinlin niobium rims, CX-Rays, and WI H1 hubs. They're excellent: reliable; durable; and with a complete lack of decals, they maximize blackness as good wheels should.
That is good to hear :)
 

Phill P

New Member
Jul 9, 2006
513
0
0
45
Hanky, I commend you for having a shoot as developing your own CF frame layout, but as everybody is pointing out you aren't doing anything different enough or better than people already out there.


You need to be different to have customer pay attension. Hence all the "marketing" that alienator loves where brands are pushing an idea that they claim thier designs excell at.

There are a lot of people doing cheap/mid price CF, very hard to make a big dent there.

I think you need to find a gap. Simple frame dynamics probably won't cut it. Custom paint finishes?? Get the frames sent unfinished and get them painted locally??
On WWs people are screaming out for a CAADX (10). With the way the world economy is going race worthy Al frames may become more popular. Intelligent tube shapes, made in asia finished locally, tapered steerer, BB30, half dozen frames sizes, anodized and custom paint finishes. That could be the way to be different.

BTW where are you getting the tapered steer forks from? I've not seen an after market source yet. All seem to be made for a specific brand not off the shelf.
 

mrklein

New Member
Sep 27, 2006
92
0
0
Phill P said:
Hanky, I commend you for having a shoot as developing your own CF frame layout, but as everybody is pointing out you aren't doing anything different enough or better than people already out there.


You need to be different to have customer pay attension. Hence all the "marketing" that alienator loves where brands are pushing an idea that they claim thier designs excell at.

There are a lot of people doing cheap/mid price CF, very hard to make a big dent there.

I think you need to find a gap. Simple frame dynamics probably won't cut it. Custom paint finishes?? Get the frames sent unfinished and get them painted locally??
On WWs people are screaming out for a CAADX (10). With the way the world economy is going race worthy Al frames may become more popular. Intelligent tube shapes, made in asia finished locally, tapered steerer, BB30, half dozen frames sizes, anodized and custom paint finishes. That could be the way to be different.

BTW where are you getting the tapered steer forks from? I've not seen an after market source yet. All seem to be made for a specific brand not off the shelf.
I'd get a couple of these babies right now except I'm too busy taking the podium on my ROI bike with Zefiero wheels and ...
 

kdelong

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2006
3,477
67
48
mrklein said:
I'd get a couple of these babies right now except I'm too busy taking the podium on my ROI bike with Zefiero wheels and ...
Do you mean Zaffiro as in the tires made by Vittoria? I have never heard of Zefiero wheels before.
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
11,945
1,043
113
I'd get a couple of these babies right now except I'm too busy taking the podium on my ROI bike with Zefiero wheels and ...

You win the internet!

Ah, good old George and the worlds most advanced frame, the Roi! And George could build them up for us in only 1/2 hour with those awesome Zefiro Ultra Hgh-Torque Modulus 237K weave carbon goodies!

Cheap, no-name carbon CAN be a winner 'if' you get lucky. I'm finishing up the second season on a Douglas (Douglas 'who'?) Matrix from colorado Cyclist that closed out at $900. So far, it's been great and had they continued selling them I would gladly buy another. It's lightweight, stiff, tracks perfectly, sprints and climbs well and feels good over our rough roads.

It had a three year warranty and was backed up by folks that have treated me well over the years.

I took a chance in buying it. It could have been a real POS thudder. For 50% to 20% of the price of the known brand names and knowing that it was going to be abused by racing it, I was willing to take that chance.
 

[email protected]

New Member
Dec 30, 2007
2,111
4
0
Phill P said:
Hanky, I commend you for having a shoot as developing your own CF frame layout, but as everybody is pointing out you aren't doing anything different enough or better than people already out there.


You need to be different to have customer pay attension. Hence all the "marketing" that alienator loves where brands are pushing an idea that they claim thier designs excell at.

There are a lot of people doing cheap/mid price CF, very hard to make a big dent there.

I think you need to find a gap. Simple frame dynamics probably won't cut it. Custom paint finishes?? Get the frames sent unfinished and get them painted locally??
On WWs people are screaming out for a CAADX (10). With the way the world economy is going race worthy Al frames may become more popular. Intelligent tube shapes, made in asia finished locally, tapered steerer, BB30, half dozen frames sizes, anodized and custom paint finishes. That could be the way to be different.

BTW where are you getting the tapered steer forks from? I've not seen an after market source yet. All seem to be made for a specific brand not off the shelf.

Or light weight steel. That way no need for tapered, 1.5 inch steerers, made so that you can more easily mitre and weld a big fat downtube to it. Same for BB30, another answer to a not asked question. Same for ceramic and compact and oversized handlebars and blended frames and seat masts and........................................................................>sorry, doing thread creep.............
 

mrklein

New Member
Sep 27, 2006
92
0
0
kdelong said:
Do you mean Zaffiro as in the tires made by Vittoria? I have never heard of Zefiero wheels before.
I meant to say Zefiro wheels. This is really just an obscure reference to an old thread involving a similar shameless half wit selling his stuff in this forum. Campy Bob is on it.
If this guy keeps it up he will get Bro Deal involved who will screw him back into the muck from which he came. If I hear any more hype from him I will be forced to call him George.
 

mrklein

New Member
Sep 27, 2006
92
0
0
CAMPYBOB said:
I'd get a couple of these babies right now except I'm too busy taking the podium on my ROI bike with Zefiero wheels and ...

You win the internet!

Ah, good old George and the worlds most advanced frame, the Roi! And George could build them up for us in only 1/2 hour with those awesome Zefiro Ultra Hgh-Torque Modulus 237K weave carbon goodies!

Cheap, no-name carbon CAN be a winner 'if' you get lucky. I'm finishing up the second season on a Douglas (Douglas 'who'?) Matrix from colorado Cyclist that closed out at $900. So far, it's been great and had they continued selling them I would gladly buy another. It's lightweight, stiff, tracks perfectly, sprints and climbs well and feels good over our rough roads.

It had a three year warranty and was backed up by folks that have treated me well over the years.

I took a chance in buying it. It could have been a real POS thudder. For 50% to 20% of the price of the known brand names and knowing that it was going to be abused by racing it, I was willing to take that chance.
I have been thinking about marketing my own frame too. I am gathering every ad for every CF frame I can find and MY frame will be hyped with every single word ever used to described carbon frames. Never mind that it probably all B.S-I'll fit right in. And that thing George has for sale looks just like the so called Bottechia that was floating around on Ebay last January. Those were about $400.00 I like Alienator's question about the team of people working on the decals!
 

Phill P

New Member
Jul 9, 2006
513
0
0
45
Or light weight steel. That way no need for tapered, 1.5 inch steerers, made so that you can more easily mitre and weld a big fat downtube to it. Same for BB30, another answer to a not asked question. Same for ceramic and compact and oversized handlebars and blended frames and seat masts and........................................................................>sorry, doing thread creep.............
Off topic....there is good enough, and there is better. For some there will be no advantage for BB30 and tapered steerers etc. But if you are big and tall (like me) there is a benefit, so I'll take them.

Hell straight gauge plumbing pipes and 1" quill steerers were good enough.....
 

[email protected]

New Member
Dec 30, 2007
2,111
4
0
Phill P said:
Off topic....there is good enough, and there is better. For some there will be no advantage for BB30 and tapered steerers etc. But if you are big and tall (like me) there is a benefit, so I'll take them.

Hell straight gauge plumbing pipes and 1" quill steerers were good enough.....

benefit with a small 'b'. Marketing says that they are 'stiffer, better, etc, blah, blah', and implies the old 'standard' was flexy, soft, heavy, prone to failure, which is not true, even for big, tall guys. Mario could sprint and win on (horrors) 1 inch forks, square taper cranks, 26mm handlebars..how did he do it????
 

Bro Deal

New Member
Jun 26, 2006
6,698
2
0
mrklein said:
I meant to say Zefiro wheels. This is really just an obscure reference to an old thread involving a similar shameless half wit selling his stuff in this forum. Campy Bob is on it.
If this guy keeps it up he will get Bro Deal involved who will screw him back into the muck from which he came. If I hear any more hype from him I will be forced to call him George.
I already made my contribution. The only thing I could come up with was making fun of the name.

I miss good ol' George. I wonder what a wealthy playboy like him is doing these days when he is not hawking goods on eBay.
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
155
0
benefit with a small 'b'. Marketing says that they are 'stiffer, better, etc, blah, blah', and implies the old 'standard' was flexy, soft, heavy, prone to failure, which is not true, even for big, tall guys. Mario could sprint and win on (horrors) 1 inch forks, square taper cranks, 26mm handlebars..how did he do it????

Yup. This is pretty much true. While crankset stiffness varies with BB axle cross section, any energy lost to BB axle flex is very, very small. Mr. Boonen didn't seem to do to badly when he was on Campy square taper BBs just a few years ago. The one clear benefit that BB30 bottom brackets offer is that they are lighter for a given stiffness. From a performance point of view, that also doesn't mean much.
 

Phill P

New Member
Jul 9, 2006
513
0
0
45
Is Mario still riding 1" forks? No he has upgraded, bet he wouldn't go back.

Guys I'm not saying they are required, just they are better, not hugely better, just better. For me they feel better. I got a new bike that has has these designs and I'm happy, not any noticably faster i'm sure, just happy. I didn't not get a new bike in order to get the new designs, but was happy I could get them when I wanted a new bike.

I still get my arss kicked on the hills. It comes down to the motor not the size of your steerer tube.
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
155
0
Phill P said:
Is Mario still riding 1" forks? No he has upgraded, bet he wouldn't go back.

Guys I'm not saying they are required, just they are better, not hugely better, just better. For me they feel better. I got a new bike that has has these designs and I'm happy, not any noticably faster i'm sure, just happy. I didn't not get a new bike in order to get the new designs, but was happy I could get them when I wanted a new bike.

I still get my arss kicked on the hills. It comes down to the motor not the size of your steerer tube.

Well, actually, they aren't better. They're different, but different isn't necessarily better. In this case, better is only a function of personal preference. Stiffer bottom brackets are like stiffer frames and laterally stiffer wheels: there is zero quantifiable evidence they provide any performance benefit, and in these cases, feeling that they're better doesn't mean anything in the general case. Feeling better is only meaningful in the specific case, i.e. for a given individual.

The mind is a powerful thing. I've mentioned this story before, but it's worth mentioning again: Scott Russell, ex-superbike star, US, and World champion was at Daytona for the Daytona 200. He didn't like how his bike was handling. He noticed how riders on other bikes with a specific color spring on the rear shock (let's say it was yellow. I can't remember what color it was.) seemed to be going faster than him. He pitted and told Rob Muzzy, his crew chief, that he wanted a yellow spring on his shock. So Rob did what any smart crew chief would do, he took Russell's rear shock spring, spray painted it yellow, and reinstalled it. Apparently that transformed Scott's bike, because he went to the top of the timing charts. The mind and belief are powerful things.

Science is objective. Science, so far, has yet to say that there is any performance advantage to increased frame, wheel, and/or BB axle stiffness. It's not like the performance advantage would be hiding, and it's not like there aren't instruments that would indicate such a performance advantage.

The "noise" level in a bicycle is more than significant: between frame flex, frame torsion, steerer flex, fork leg flex, fork leg torsion, crank flex, BB flex, wheel flex, wheel windup, tire flex, tire hysteresis, seat post flex, seat movement, stem flex, stem torsion, handlebar flex, handlebar torsion, road surface quality...........you see where I'm going? That's a lot of stuff that'll create measurement noise--uncertainty is the better term--and there's a lot more that I didn't mention. Oh, we can't forget that the bike is hinged at the front. The human body is definitely not a precise or accurate sensor, and it only gets worse when personal bias is coupled to the "measurement."

For new things to be accepted as "better," proof has to be provided of how they are better in the general case.