New Runner Goal-3.25 mile in 20min



P

Paul

Guest
I'm starting a running program. My goal is to run around the local park (3.25 miles) in less than
twenty minutes. I'm a twenty four year old male (six feet tall about 150lbs). I haven't done any
running in a couple of years though I have practiced a mix of strength training and yoga. So I'm not
completely out of shape but my cardio capacity is very down.

I have a couple questions. Is this a reasonable goal? What kind of time frame is realistic for
achieving this goal? Three months? Also, I just ordered a heart rate monitor to help me out. What
would be some good ways to use the monitor to achieve my goal of 3.25 miles in less than twenty
minutes? Thanks. -Paul
 
Hi Paul, A 6:09 pace for 3.25 miles seems reasonable for a person of your build and age to achieve
in 3 months. Since you ran before, you have a feel for running and your basic ability. Since you do
strength training and yoga, you have body strength, which is helpful to good running form, and good
flexibility and good breathing technique. You will have to bring your training into the 5:50-6:00
range to achieve your goal. After an easy mile warmup, time yourself for a mile at about 90% effort
(hard but not all out). Record this time and use it as a base to guide your future training. You may
want to just do about a week or two of easy running before doing this mile baseline. I would guess
that you can do this mile in about 7 to 8 minutes. If it's 9 or 10 minutes, then you may take longer
to reach your goal. Do a variety of quarter and half mile interval workouts at 6:00 pace, always
after an easy mile or so warmup. Then add quality 2 and 3 mile runs to your workouts. It is
essential to rest (= not run) between hard running workouts to give your body recovery time. Rest is
as important as running because if you do not give your muscles time to recover, you will not
improve as quickly. Rest at least 1 or 2 or 3 days. Let your body guide you. If you feel sore,
sluggish, tired, don't run. Since you do strength and yoga, a good cycle may be run one day, yoga
the next, and strength the third day. A HRM is helpful. You have to establish you max hr
specifically for running by seeing what your max hr is during intervals and hard miles. As you
train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves. After a month of
training you will have a decent fix on your max hr. Then you can fine tune your effort levels using
your HRM. But let your body and how you feel be your main guide. Have fun training and running. Keep
us posted on your progress and discoveries. Al Kubeluis

"paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm starting a running program. My goal is to run around the local park (3.25 miles) in less than
> twenty minutes. I'm a twenty four year old male (six feet tall about 150lbs). I haven't done any
> running in a couple of years though I have practiced a mix of strength training and yoga. So I'm
> not completely out of shape but my cardio capacity is very down.
>
> I have a couple questions. Is this a reasonable goal? What kind of time frame is realistic for
> achieving this goal? Three months? Also, I just ordered a heart rate monitor to help me out. What
> would be some good ways to use the monitor to achieve my goal of 3.25 miles in less than twenty
> minutes? Thanks. -Paul
 
In article <[email protected]>, paul wrote:
> I'm starting a running program. My goal is to run around the local park (3.25 miles) in less than
> twenty minutes. I'm a twenty four year old male (six feet tall about 150lbs). I haven't done any
> running in a couple of years though I have practiced a mix of strength training and yoga. So I'm
> not completely out of shape but my cardio capacity is very down.
>
> I have a couple questions. Is this a reasonable goal? What kind of

Maybe. It's probable that you could do this with some training, but it depends on your level of
ability and responsiveness to training.

How much training are you doing at present ?

> time frame is realistic for achieving this goal?

No idea.

> Three months? Also,

Three days, three months, six months, three years, depending on your level of ability.

If you post your current training however, it is possible to set reasonable training goals (milage,
speed work schedule, etc). I think a good training plan would be to spend a few months building up
to frequent training (6 times per week with one long run for 20 miles/week or more) and then add
some speed work, and see where you are 6 months from now. Just the milage in itself will bring about
improvements, so you may actually meet this goal of yours before you even start speed work (in which
case you'll really need some new and improved goals, a rather nice problem to have ...)

> I just ordered a heart rate monitor to help me out. What would be some good ways to use the
> monitor to achieve my goal of 3.25 miles in less than twenty minutes?

You need to have some idea what your max heart rate is before the monitor is much good to you. You
can do this by doing a sort of stress test. For example, doing a hard run around the park and
running the last 800m as fast as possible should give you a pretty good idea what your max is (as
well as some idea of where you are now).

For starters, you need to build a base of comfortable running. This means gradually building up
milage. I'd suggest using the heart rate monitor and staying under 80% of your max heart rate.
Continue in this manner for a couple of months. As far as pace is concerned, most of your training
runs around the park should take about 4-5 minutes longer than an all-out effort. So if you can run
around the park in 22 minutes, a training run should take 26-27 minutes.

The goal in the early stages should be to just get in consistent milage, and build up to running
frequently (e.g. 6 times a week).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Al Kubeluis wrote:

Oh boy ...

> Since you ran before, you have a feel for running and your basic ability. Since you do
> strength training and yoga, you have body strength, which is helpful to good running form, and
> good flexibility and good breathing technique. You will have to bring your training into the
> 5:50-6:00 range to achieve your goal. After an easy mile warmup, time yourself for a mile at
> about 90% effort (hard but not all out).

What does "90% effort" mean ? This is too vague to be useful.

> Record this time and use it as a base to guide your future training. You may want to just do about
> a week or two of easy running before doing this mile baseline. I would guess that you can do this
> mile in about 7 to 8 minutes. If it's 9 or 10 minutes, then you may take longer to reach your
> goal. Do a variety of quarter and half mile interval workouts at 6:00 pace, always after an easy
> mile or so warmup. Then add quality 2 and 3 mile runs to your workouts.

Isn't it premature to jump into a full-blown program with intervals and all that when as far as we
know, he hasn't even built up to running consistently ?

> It is essential to rest (= not run) between hard running workouts to give your body recovery
> time. Rest is as important as running because if you do not give your muscles time to recover,
> you will not improve as quickly. Rest at least 1 or 2 or 3 days.

What does "at least 1 or 2 or 3 days" mean ?

If he needs to rest 3 days/week, he's training too hard.

> Let your body guide you. If you feel sore, sluggish, tired,

... then you're training too hard.

> don't run. Since you do strength and yoga, a good cycle may be run one day, yoga the next, and
> strength the third day.

This schedule has him running a grand total of twice a week, and you've also suggested that both of
those sessions be somewhat anaerobic. Which would be just fine if he were training for a 400. Where
does he get his aerobic conditioning from ? Are you suggesting he'll be able to run a good 5k by
sprinting some 400s twice a week and doing yoga/weights ? I'd be surprised if this were the case.

> A HRM is helpful. You have to establish you max hr specifically for running by seeing what
> your max hr is during intervals and hard miles. As you train, you will find that your max hr
> increases since your conditioning improves.

No it doesn't.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Hi Phil,
You're theoretically correct, as I believe you are refering to an
inherent max hr for each individual.
What I meant to say is that as you train, you will find that the max hr
you see on your hrm will increase since your conditioning improves and you
will be able to run harder.
Al Kubeluis
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>
> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>
> -Phil
 
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:40:32 -0500, "Al Kubeluis"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi Phil, You're theoretically correct, as I believe you are refering to an inherent max hr for each
>individual. What I meant to say is that as you train, you will find that the max hr you see on your
>hrm will increase since your conditioning improves and you will be able to run harder.

Again, if memory serves, not necessarily true. Many runners can't get there HR's up as high
the higher their conditioning. Generally this effect is seen in those that are closer to
their peak conditioning and not a beginer though. However if the individual is following a
training schedule they shouldn't be seeing higher HR's. They should be holding HR's at a
certain level, dictated by the purpose of the workouts. In other words once the OP finds
his/her HR zones he/she should hold those zones and HR for thr workouts. He/she may be going
faster at those HR's but not with higher HR's. The only possible situation I can see were
the runner should see higher HR's is in a race were conditions add a few beats, things like
heat, or if the runner simply is "learning" were his/her max is at. None of which should
happen very often if ever, especially for a newbie, in training.

~Matt

> Al Kubeluis "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>>
>> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>>
>> -Phil
 
[email protected] (paul) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm starting a running program. My goal is to run around the local park (3.25 miles) in less than
> twenty minutes. I'm a twenty four year old male (six feet tall about 150lbs). I haven't done any
> running in a couple of years though I have practiced a mix of strength training and yoga. So I'm
> not completely out of shape but my cardio capacity is very down.
>
> I have a couple questions. Is this a reasonable goal? What kind of time frame is realistic for
> achieving this goal? Three months? Also, I just ordered a heart rate monitor to help me out. What
> would be some good ways to use the monitor to achieve my goal of 3.25 miles in less than twenty
> minutes? Thanks. -Paul

Hi Paul,

3.25 miles in less than 20 minutes is a fairly tall order for a seasoned runner never mind
a beginner.

You present many unknowns, how fast are you know, how long can you run for?

A few tips to know you're headed in the right direction. The nex time you run you should be able to
run a mile without too much effort. Not that it should be fast. You should be able to complete it
without thinking about stopping. If you can do that you should be able to run 3 miles in one shot in
4 weeks of making your runs gradually longer. Now there is a glimmer of hope.

Once you are assured you are genetically gifted in running endurance you have to find out if you are
genetically gifted in cardio vascular fitness. Your goal pace is 6:09 or so. Once you are able to
run 3 miles see how fast you can run 1 mile. If it is anything over 7 minutes give up the goal. You
may find out that you are a quality runner or not. But it took me 1 year of fairly serious running
to get down to 6 minute pace.

For what is worth a HRM is a tool that runners use to train smart. If you manage to get up to 3
miles in 1 month you won't be training smart to achieve your goal.

My $0.02 Andy
 
In article <[email protected]>, Al Kubeluis wrote:
> Hi Phil, You're theoretically correct, as I believe you are refering to an inherent max hr for
> each individual. What I meant to say is that as you train, you will find that the max hr you see
> on your hrm will increase since your conditioning improves and you will be able to run harder.

Still wrong...

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
"Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.

That would be a neat trick. If only it were true!

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org
 
"Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hi Phil, You're theoretically correct, as I believe you are refering to an inherent max hr for
> each individual. What I meant to say is that as you train, you will find that the max hr you see
> on your hrm will increase since your conditioning improves and you will be able to run harder. Al
> Kubeluis "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>>
>> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>>
>> -Phil

I'm sorry, but that's not correct. If you actually ever see a MHR get higher, it's because the
initial calculation was not accurate. It could be that the runner was not motivated enough to
achieve a true MHR. Then, for whatever mental reason, they had the gonads to take it to the limit.
Thereby, they would be under the false impression that their MHR had raised, when in fact it did
not. This has nothing to do with conditioning.

-Phil
 
>>> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>>>
>>> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>>>
>>> -Phil
>
>I'm sorry, but that's not correct. If you actually ever see a MHR get

Wrong again

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/maxhr.htm

Maybe fitness doesn't change it much, but does have a measurable affect, at least in the lab

Christine
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mark and Christine wrote:
>>>> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>>>>
>>>> -Phil
>>
>>I'm sorry, but that's not correct. If you actually ever see a MHR get
>
>
> Wrong again
>
> http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/maxhr.htm
>
> Maybe fitness doesn't change it much, but does have a measurable affect, at least in the lab

Could you give a specific quote from that website that contradicts anything Phil said ? In
particular, something that says that MHR increases with training ?

BTW, the source you quote makes several fairly basic errors. The author apparently has no idea what
"linear" means (despite quoting several linear regression formulas) and no understanding of the
distinction between "predicting" vs "calculating" MHR.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
You could sell the HRM, and use the money to take a cab ride around the park.
 
Mark and Christine <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>>>> > As you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. Your resting HR will decrease, but your max HR will NEVER increase.
>>>>
>>>> -Phil
>>
>>I'm sorry, but that's not correct. If you actually ever see a MHR get
>
>
> Wrong again
>
> http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/maxhr.htm
>
> Maybe fitness doesn't change it much, but does have a measurable affect, at least in the lab
>
> Christine

Please tell me where on that site I should be looking. I'm not seeing anything that says your MHR
will increase with improved conditioning. Thanks.

-Phil
 
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:24 GMT, "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote:
>Please tell me where on that site I should be looking. I'm not seeing anything that says your MHR
>will increase with improved conditioning. Thanks.

Londeree and Moeschberger also looked at other variables to see if

make any difference but they did find that the MHR was effected by the activity and levels
of fitness.

Third paragraph down

Christine
 
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:17:17 GMT, Mark and Christine
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:24 GMT, "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Please tell me where on that site I should be looking. I'm not seeing anything that says your MHR
>>will increase with improved conditioning. Thanks.

and one more of many...

While the max HR of most individuals remains stable from month to month, it often drops by 4-8 beats
in people who take up endurance training after a period of inactivity. Conversely, max HR can rise
by a similar amount in trained athletes who scale back their training regimen or abandon it
altogether (Zavorsky, Sports Medicine 29: 13-26,
2000).

from

http://faculty.washington.edu/crowther/Misc/RBC/heart2.shtml
 
Al Kubeluis wrote: As
> you train, you will find that your max hr increases since your conditioning improves.

Existing studies in a review suggest that HRmax decrease with conditioning. I haven't read the full
article (or if I have I don't have it at my finger tips) but here's an abstract by author that Sam
pointed me to back in Sept under "Heart Rate Monitor Strategies". Note: I think people use the term
HRmax differently and I'm not sure how they define it in this article, but most likely involves some
testing protocol, hence HRmax may fluctuate a little based on training and type activity. I split
the most relevant sentence out of the abstract for easy viewing. There may be other more current
papers and possibly conflicting results.

> 1: Sports Med. 2000 Jan;29(1):13-26.
>
> Evidence and possible mechanisms of altered maximum heart rate with endurance training and
> tapering.
>
> Zavorsky GS.
>
> Department of Experimental Medicine, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.
> [email protected]
>
> Exercise physiologists, coaches and athletes have traditionally used heart rate (HR) to monitor
> training intensity during exercise. While it is known that aerobic training decreases submaximal
> HR (HRsubmax) at a given absolute exercise workload, the general consensus is that maximum HR
> (HRmax) is relatively unaltered regardless of training status in a given population. It has not
> been seriously postulated as to whether HRmax can change modestly with aerobic
> training/detraining.

Despite several sources stating that HRmax is unaltered
> with training, several studies report that HRmax is reduced following regular aerobic exercise by
> sedentary adults and endurance athletes, and can increase upon cessation of aerobic exercise.

Furthermore, evidence suggests that
> tapering/detraining can increase HRmax. Therefore, it is plausible that some of the same
> mechanisms that affect both resting and HRsubmax may also play a role in altered HRmax. Some of
> the proposed mechanisms for changes in HRmax that may occur with aerobic training include
> autonomic (extrinsic) factors such as plasma volume expansion and(enhanced baroreflex function,
> while some nonautonomic (intrinsic) factors are alteration of the electrophysiology of the
> sinoatrial (SA) node and decreased beta-adrenergic receptor number and density. There is a high
> correlation between changes in both maximal oxygen uptake (VO2 max) and HRmax that occurs with
> training, tapering and detraining (r= -0.76: p < 0.0001; n = 314), which indicates that as VO2max
> improves with training, HRmax tends to decrease, and when detraining ensues, HRmax tends to
> increase. The overall effect of aerobic training and detraining on HRmax is moderate: effect sizes
> based on several studies were calculated to be -0.48 and +0.54, respectively. Therefore, analysis
> reveals that HRmax can be altered by 3 to 7% with aerobic training/detraining. However, because of
> a lack of research in the area of training on HRmax, the reader should remain speculative and
> allow for cautious interpretation until further, more thorough investigations are carried out as
> to the confirmation of mechanisms involved. Despite the limitations of using HR and HRmax as a
> guide to training intensity, the practical implications of monitoring changing HRmax are: (i)
> prescribed training intensities may be more precisely monitored; and (ii) prevention of
> overtraining may possibly be enhanced. As such, it may be sensible to monitor HRmax directly in
> athletes throughout the training year, perhaps at every macrocycle (3 to 6 weeks).

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
Mark and Christine wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:17:17 GMT, Mark and Christine <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:35:24 GMT, "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Please tell me where on that site I should be looking. I'm not seeing anything that says your MHR
>>>will increase with improved conditioning. Thanks.
>
>
>
> and one more of many...
>
> While the max HR of most individuals remains stable from month to month, it often drops by 4-8
> beats in people who take up endurance training after a period of inactivity. Conversely, max HR
> can rise by a similar amount in trained athletes who scale back their training regimen or abandon
> it altogether (Zavorsky, Sports Medicine 29: 13-26,
> 2000).
>
> from
>
> http://faculty.washington.edu/crowther/Misc/RBC/heart2.shtml

Right, according to the abstract that I posted the max HR *decreases* with training there is nothing
on these pages to say it *increases* with conditioning.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mark and Christine wrote:

> Londeree and Moeschberger also looked at other variables to see if

> make any difference but they did find that the MHR was effected by the activity and levels of
> fitness.
>
> Third paragraph down

I think the author meant "affected". They don't say how MHR was "effected", but I wouldn't trust
someone who doesn't know what a regression line is to interpret the literature. I couldn't find
those authors on pubmed btw.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/