New spoke or rebuild wheel

[bc2502]

I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.
Thanks.
Bill

 

[Lou Holtman]

bc2502 wrote:
> I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
> using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
> but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
> a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.
> Thanks.
> Bill
>
>


Just wait a little it could be an incident. If a spoke breaks within a
short period then rebuild the wheel.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[Art Harris]

bc2502 wrote:
> I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
> using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
> but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
> a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.

Hard to say. One broken spoke in 16,000 miles doesn't really show a
trend. If another one breaks, you may have a problem.

Were the spokes stress relieved when the wheel was built? If not, it's
never too late. Go around the wheel giving a firm squeeze to two pairs
of near parallel spokes at a time. If any are close to fatigue failure,
this may cause them to fail. If not, this may prevent future failures.

Art Harris

 

[Sandy]

bc2502 a écrit :
> I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles
Machine built or hand built, just badly built. Or were you there, at
the factory ? Did the wheels come with a tag that said "This wheel was
built without the touch of a human hand" ?

Ride - find out - tell us how long they last ...

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:16:13 GMT, "bc2502" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
>spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
>using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
>without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
>but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
>broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
>a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.

The first four may have been part of the huge number of broken spokes
on name-brand bikes and wheels that resulted from defective wire
shipped by a Korean supplier. The recent brakage probably has other
causes. I'd treat it as a random thing; my advice is to replace the
broken spoke and keep riding.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel
> rebuilt
> using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke
> replaced
> but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It
> is
> a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double
> butted.
> Thanks.
> Bill

Don't worry about what's essentially your first broken spoke (since the
wheel was rebuilt). In usually recommend that a customer replace or rebuild
a wheel after the 2nd or 3rd spoke fails. But, having said that, 16,000
miles on an Open Pro rim, if used much in the rain, could be enough to have
worn the sidewalls dangerously-thin. Many Open Pro rims have failed from
that with far fewer miles than yours (and, of course, some have gone on
longer). Just something to keep an eye on.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Sammy]

I broke about 10 spokes on a 2005 <$600 bike, exactly the type with the
Korean problem. Not one shop up here in Central New York told me of
the problem and the shop I bought the bike at kept charging to replace
spokes and true wheels every time. This is criminal in my opinion. I
finally found an article on the net about the spoke problem and took it
into the shop. They rebuilt the wheel and complained that the bike
maker may not even pay them for the work. "Look at it from our point
of view," no look at it from mine, I'm out about $150 for wheel
repairs and they should have fixed it from the start. Not of these
supposedly honest places did what you say you would do, rebuild the
wheel after a few broken spokes. Next time I'm buying a bike at a big
box store, at least they're not completely shady.


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> > spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel
> > rebuilt
> > using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> > without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke
> > replaced
> > but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> > broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It
> > is
> > a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double
> > butted.
> > Thanks.
> > Bill
>
> Don't worry about what's essentially your first broken spoke (since the
> wheel was rebuilt). In usually recommend that a customer replace or rebuild
> a wheel after the 2nd or 3rd spoke fails. But, having said that, 16,000
> miles on an Open Pro rim, if used much in the rain, could be enough to have
> worn the sidewalls dangerously-thin. Many Open Pro rims have failed from
> that with far fewer miles than yours (and, of course, some have gone on
> longer). Just something to keep an eye on.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>I broke about 10 spokes on a 2005 <$600 bike, exactly the type with the
> Korean problem. Not one shop up here in Central New York told me of
> the problem and the shop I bought the bike at kept charging to replace
> spokes and true wheels every time. This is criminal in my opinion. I
> finally found an article on the net about the spoke problem and took it
> into the shop. They rebuilt the wheel and complained that the bike
> maker may not even pay them for the work. "Look at it from our point
> of view," no look at it from mine, I'm out about $150 for wheel
> repairs and they should have fixed it from the start. Not of these
> supposedly honest places did what you say you would do, rebuild the
> wheel after a few broken spokes. Next time I'm buying a bike at a big
> box store, at least they're not completely shady.

If a shop has an excellent relationship with their supplier, they'll likely
be taken care of in a case like you describe. That's one of the reasons why
you might consider being cautious buying a bike from a store that has
half-a-dozen brands; more than likely, they're not on great terms with any
of them (because each company would like to have a bigger piece of their
pie, and are tolerating the store simply because they don't have other
options in the area).

In our case, we deal with a single bike supplier, and over the years have
built up a relationship with them such that we don't have to worry about
whether something's going to be taken care of or not... if something happens
that shouldn't have, we can take care of it ourselves and know the company
will stand behind it. Even if something (like a wheel, for example) is out
of warranty, but perhaps has pretty low mileage and either started breaking
spokes for no good reason or developed rim cracks or whatever.

Mistakes do happen, and poorly-engineered or defective merchandise does make
it out onto the road at times. What defines a company is how well they take
care of the shop & customer when those things occur. That doesn't mean you
don't scrutinize things very carefully to make sure it's actually a fault of
the product, and the best way for a shop to get on really bad terms with a
warranty department at a company is to take the attitude "Hey, don't worry
about the fact that you ran into a curb and broke some spokes and dented the
wheel, we'll just tell the company you had a defective wheel."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Sammy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I broke about 10 spokes on a 2005 <$600 bike, exactly the type with the
> Korean problem. Not one shop up here in Central New York told me of
> the problem and the shop I bought the bike at kept charging to replace
> spokes and true wheels every time. This is criminal in my opinion. I
> finally found an article on the net about the spoke problem and took it
> into the shop. They rebuilt the wheel and complained that the bike
> maker may not even pay them for the work. "Look at it from our point
> of view," no look at it from mine, I'm out about $150 for wheel
> repairs and they should have fixed it from the start. Not of these
> supposedly honest places did what you say you would do, rebuild the
> wheel after a few broken spokes. Next time I'm buying a bike at a big
> box store, at least they're not completely shady.
>
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> >I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
>> > spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel
>> > rebuilt
>> > using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
>> > without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke
>> > replaced
>> > but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
>> > broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end.
>> > It
>> > is
>> > a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double
>> > butted.
>> > Thanks.
>> > Bill
>>
>> Don't worry about what's essentially your first broken spoke (since the
>> wheel was rebuilt). In usually recommend that a customer replace or
>> rebuild
>> a wheel after the 2nd or 3rd spoke fails. But, having said that, 16,000
>> miles on an Open Pro rim, if used much in the rain, could be enough to
>> have
>> worn the sidewalls dangerously-thin. Many Open Pro rims have failed from
>> that with far fewer miles than yours (and, of course, some have gone on
>> longer). Just something to keep an eye on.
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

 

[jim beam]

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:16:13 GMT, "bc2502" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
>>spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
>>using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
>>without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
>>but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
>>broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
>>a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.
>
>
> The first four may have been part of the huge number of broken spokes
> on name-brand bikes and wheels that resulted from defective wire
> shipped by a Korean supplier.

<irony>
thatsh shurly shome mishtake!!! r.b.t. dictum is that it's a failure to
"stress relieve" - material quality has nothing to do with it...
</irony>

> The recent brakage probably has other
> causes. I'd treat it as a random thing; my advice is to replace the
> broken spoke and keep riding.

truth is, you hit the nail on the head. replacement with quality
aftermarket spokes is definitely the way to go. replacing one spoke in
16,000 miles is no great tragedy. replace and ride on.

 

[tiborg]

I've just had a similar experience. My rear wheel with less than 3000km
broke one spoke about 800km ago and then another yesterday. However, in
my case the breaks were both in the nipple. Searching the newsgroup for
info on similar failures, I came across a post that suggested taking a
look at the alignment of the spokes and nipples. Sure enough, most of
the spokes are not parallel with the nipples. The angle difference is
not that great, but I'd rather have the wheel rebuilt properly. My
question is, can I reuse the spokes or should I just get a new batch to
be safe? The rims are Alex DP20 and the hub is a Formula Disc 32H.
Would I be saving myself a lot of trouble down the road by just
replacing the wheel with better parts?

 

[[email protected]]

Tiborg who? writes:

> I've just had a similar experience. My rear wheel with less than
> 3000km broke one spoke about 800km ago and then another yesterday.
> However, in my case the breaks were both in the nipple. Searching
> the newsgroup for info on similar failures, I came across a post
> that suggested taking a look at the alignment of the spokes and
> nipples. Sure enough, most of the spokes are not parallel with the
> nipples.

This is not hard to fix and with the low mileage you have, most spokes
probably will not have developed cracks yet.

> The angle difference is not that great, but I'd rather have the
> wheel rebuilt properly. My question is, can I reuse the spokes or
> should I just get a new batch to be safe? The rims are Alex DP20 and
> the hub is a Formula Disc 32H. Would I be saving myself a lot of
> trouble down the road by just replacing the wheel with better parts?

I don't know why your spoke nipples don't align with the direction of
pull but let's assume the spokes were not laced into the opposite side
holes, spoke holes are staggered left and right. I assume it is
primarily the left side spoke because they are farther off centerline
than the ones on the right.

Often spokes can be bent manually by pushing them just beyond the
spoke nipple toward (and beyond) the angle they need to take. They
should take an abrupt kink where they exit the spoke nipple and if
manual adjustment doesn't work, you can uses a smooth jawed pair of
pliers to do that. This is called "improving the spoke line" a method
described in "the Bicycle Wheel" that Sheldon will send you for a
pittance.

After doing that, stress relieve the whole spoke complement and apply
your spoke wrench to get the wheel in true. Stress relieving will
usually cause partially cracked spokes to fail and spare you the
trouble of having them go while underway.

This was apparently not done by the wheel builder but you can do a
follow-up addendum and have good wheels. I think the faulty spoke
stuff, like the separating valve stems, is behind us. Anyway, it's
good to become adept at these methods because you should probably
build your own wheels, or at least finish the job on machine built
wheels that were only trued and not really finished.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:16:13 GMT, "bc2502" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> >spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
> >using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> >without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
> >but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> >broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
> >a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.
>
> The first four may have been part of the huge number of broken spokes
> on name-brand bikes and wheels that resulted from defective wire
> shipped by a Korean supplier. The recent brakage probably has other
> causes. I'd treat it as a random thing; my advice is to replace the
> broken spoke and keep riding.
> --
> Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
> Some gardening required to reply via email.
> Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Dear Werehatrack,

The time and distance in BC's post suggest that his spokes were bought
before the Taiwanese spokes made from Japanese and Korean wire.

BC bought his wheel in 2001.

Four spokes broke in the first 1500 miles and were replaced.

Another spoke just broke after 16,000 miles.

The Taiwanese spoke problem seems to be from late 2005:

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001525444

or

http://tinyurl.com/eu2wr

(You have to read carefully and not confuse Kore, a USA company, with
any Korean company--the Kore spokesman is talking about his Kore USA
company using Swedish Sandvik wire, as opposed to the Korean and
Japanese wire used to make faulty spokes in Taiwan.)

This seems to be the same problem from 2004/5:

January 8, 2006 Widespread Spoke Failures

Bike shops are being forced to build hundreds of replacement wheels
each week because spokes in stock wheels are failing. The problem is
currently found in bikes costing up to $600 from makers such as Fuji,
Giant, Jamis, Pacific Cycle, Raleigh, Specialized, Trek and others.

The scope of the problem is still uncertain, according to a cover story
in the trade magazine, Bicycle Retailer & Industry News. Bikes made for
the above companies in various Chinese assembly plants received wheels
laced with defective spokes.

The spokes are breaking in the middle and/or rusting. It's suspected
that cost-cutting by a Korean company resulted in substandard wire
being supplied to spoke manufacturers. According to the magazine, tests
show that the spokes have nickel and molybdenum contents far below
normal levels.

The faulty spokes may have N, Z or S stamped into the round head or no
insignia at all. If you have a 2004 or '05 bike in which the spokes
begin rusting or breaking, check with the shop where you bought it.

http://www.climbonline.org/news/recalls.shtml

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Ron Ruff]

Sammy wrote:
> They rebuilt the wheel and complained that the bike
> maker may not even pay them for the work. "Look at it from our point
> of view," no look at it from mine, I'm out about $150 for wheel
> repairs and they should have fixed it from the start.

Like Mike J. said, they must have had a poor relationship with the
manufacturer, or the manufacturer of your bike doesn't take care of
their customers. When I mentioned my crappy spokes (Specialized MTB) to
the owner of the LBS (Kauai Cycle), he immediately said they'd replace
all the spokes with DTs, free of charge.

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> <irony>
> thatsh shurly shome mishtake!!! r.b.t. dictum is that it's a failure to
> "stress relieve" - material quality has nothing to do with it...
> </irony>

Trust me, nobody here will misconstrue what you say.

--
Michael Press

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

bc2502 wrote:
> I purchased my bike in 2001 with machine built wheels. After breaking 4
> spokes on the rear wheel within the first 1500 miles I had the wheel rebuilt
> using the same rim and hubs. I have put over 16000 miles on the wheel
> without a spoke breaking until one broke yesterday. I had the spoke replaced
> but does any one have an opinion on whether I will again have a run of
> broken spokes on the rear wheel? All the spokes broke at the hub end. It is
> a Mavic Open Pro rim with Ultegra hubs and 32 spokes that are double butted.
> Thanks.
> Bill

Broken spokes mean a sick wheel but hopefully the spoke replacer trued,
rounded, tensioned and dished the wheel with the new spoke..wait and
see..But if another goes, rebuild it, The rim is the issue, not the
spokes.

 

[jim beam]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>><irony>
>>thatsh shurly shome mishtake!!! r.b.t. dictum is that it's a failure to
>>"stress relieve" - material quality has nothing to do with it...
>></irony>
>
>
> Trust me, nobody here will misconstrue what you say.
>
funny!