New Stronglight Website

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Gary Jacobson, May 5, 2003.

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  1. http://www.stronglight.com/anglais/produits/prodf1.htm

    In the recent past I 've had trouble finding an English Stronglight website. Thought to share it
    with NG readers.

    They have an interesting cold forged and CNC'd 110 bcd double crankset, Granfondo. The 113 BB,
    "Boitier de pédalier SBB", works with it.

    Gary J.
     
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  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Gary Jacobson writes:

    > http://www.stronglight.com/anglais/produits/prodf1.htm

    > In the recent past I 've had trouble finding an English Stronglight website. Thought to share it
    > with NG readers.

    The one that comes up with GOOGLE: http://www.stronglight.com/ is good enough, having icons for
    Francaise/English, however, looking at their "Cranks" oops, "Cranksets" gives me the willies about
    their designing. The spider of the Ironlight is doomed to fail under torque, possibly even from
    overload , but fatigue for sure. The ramped features do not fool stress that must get from spindle
    to chainring.

    > They have an interesting cold forged and CNC'd 110 bcd double crankset, Granfondo. The 113 BB,
    > "Boitier de pédalier SBB", works with it.

    What is also interesting is the endless different and incompatible models of cranks. This has got to
    be more expensive than it is worth. I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle
    head bearing, apparently under the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not.
    Not only that, but needle bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes
    un-centered with use. They are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.

    Oh well. It will be tough going against <C> and STI. Who finances these products?

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. I guess I got excited about a Euro 110 bcd crank. The price for the Granfondo is right at $125.00.
    What crank with this bcd is not doomed? Sugino? TA Zephyr? Ritchey Logic? I think Pinerello has a
    carbon 110 crank. I really think Campy would have a winner if they marketed a 110 as an alternative
    to a triple.

    GJ

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Gary Jacobson writes:
    >
    > > http://www.stronglight.com/anglais/produits/prodf1.htm
    >
    > > In the recent past I 've had trouble finding an English Stronglight website. Thought to share it
    > > with NG readers.
    >
    > The one that comes up with GOOGLE: http://www.stronglight.com/ is good enough, having icons for
    > Francaise/English, however, looking at their "Cranks" oops, "Cranksets" gives me the willies about
    > their designing. The spider of the Ironlight is doomed to fail under torque, possibly even from
    > overload , but fatigue for sure. The ramped features do not fool stress that must get from spindle
    > to chainring.
    >
    > > They have an interesting cold forged and CNC'd 110 bcd double crankset, Granfondo. The 113 BB,
    > > "Boitier de pédalier SBB", works with it.
    >
    > What is also interesting is the endless different and incompatible models of cranks. This has got
    > to be more expensive than it is worth. I also notice that they are still offering the disproven
    > needle head bearing, apparently under the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it
    > is not. Not only that, but needle bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement
    > becomes un-centered with use. They are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.
    >
    > Oh well. It will be tough going against <C> and STI. Who finances these products?
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  4. Gary Young

    Gary Young Guest

    "Gary Jacobson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I guess I got excited about a Euro 110 bcd crank. The price for the Granfondo is right at $125.00.
    > What crank with this bcd is not doomed? Sugino? TA Zephyr? Ritchey Logic? I think Pinerello has a
    > carbon 110 crank. I really think Campy would have a winner if they marketed a 110 as an
    > alternative to a triple.

    What about the "Asphalt" on the Stronglight site (look under Products/Range). It's heavier than the
    Granfondo, but comes in a 110 double or 110/74 triple. The heaviness may be a good thing, if the
    Granfondo spider would be subject to fatigue.
     
  5. Jobst brandt wrote:

    "I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently under the
    belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but needle bearings
    are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with use. They are not
    immune to fretting dimples. I have examples. "

    Well, here's one you don't have. The Stronglight A9 needle bearing headset on my tourer has been
    running fine for almost 8 years now (about 24000 miles)...

    Even the Campy Nuevo Record I had on my Lygie didn't last that long!

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  6. > Jobst brandt wrote:
    >
    > "I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently under
    > the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but needle
    > bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with use. They
    > are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples. "

    Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote

    > Well, here's one you don't have. The Stronglight A9 needle bearing headset on my tourer has been
    > running fine for almost 8 years now (about 24000 miles)...

    This is a great example of where theory and practice diverge.

    The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!

    > Even the Campy Nuevo Record I had on my Lygie didn't last that long!

    Actually, that's an Italian product, not Spanish, so it's "Nuovo."

    Sheldon "I Know I Just Used This Quote, But It's The Best I've Got" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------------+
    | In theory, there's no difference between theory | and practice; but, in practice, there is. |
    +---------------------------------------------------+, Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  7. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Sheldon Brown writes:

    >>> I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently under
    >>> the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but needle
    >>> bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with use. They
    >>> are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.

    >> Well, here's one you don't have. The Stronglight A9 needle bearing headset on my tourer has been
    >> running fine for almost 8 years now (about 24000 miles)...

    > This is a great example of where theory and practice diverge.

    > The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    > they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!

    Well mine always bound up and did not allow the wheel to swing freely on the bearing adjustment
    test. To make up for that, it got dimples just like the ball bearing ones that I also experienced.
    These failures are what initiated my correlating effect and cause. I think we all know more about
    steering bearing failures now than at that time (Brinelling and stretching chains).

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  8. Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    > they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!

    Agreed. Careful installation is the key, to ensure that the bearings run true; all the A9s (and one
    X12) I've had have been fitted by bike shops or framebuilders [1], rather than attempting a
    bodge-it-yourself job, and I've yet to experience any problems.

    David E. Belcher

    Dept. of Chemistry, University of York

    [1] And no, I wasn't charged a fortune for doing so. Customer loyalty pays dividends here - I've
    used quite a few UK shops where they'll gladly fit a headset for free, provided you buy it from
    them in the first place!
     
  9. "Gary Jacobson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I guess I got excited about a Euro 110 bcd crank. The price for the Granfondo is right at $125.00.
    > What crank with this bcd is not doomed? Sugino? TA Zephyr? Ritchey Logic? I think Pinerello has a
    > carbon 110 crank. I really think Campy would have a winner if they marketed a 110 as an
    > alternative to a triple.
    >

    Bit of a specialist market, but the 110 mm BCD is just the job for cyclo-cross, where an inner ring
    less than 39T (135 BCD) or 38T (130 BCD) is often of use on a double chainset.

    David E. Belcher

    Dept. of Chemistry, University of York
     
  10. Jobst Wrote:

    >>>>I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently under
    >>>>the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but needle
    >>>>bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with use. They
    >>>>are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.

    I replied:

    >>This is a great example of where theory and practice diverge.
    >
    >
    >>The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    >>they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!

    Jobst torted again:

    > Well mine always bound up and did not allow the wheel to swing freely on the bearing
    > adjustment test.

    It is true that these headsets don't turn as freely as ball bearing units, probably due to the use
    of cylindrical rather than conical rollers.

    However, they do turn freely enough to permit riding "no hands" and that is as free as is needed.
    It's not as if the headset were part of the drivetrain.

    > To make up for that, it got dimples just like the ball bearing ones that I also experienced.

    Your experience in this, as with the broken cranks, is unusual and anomalous. Most people don't have
    either of these problems.

    Perhaps you need to see an exorcist...

    Sheldon "Perfect Is The Enemy Of Good Enough" Brown +----------------------------------------------+
    | If it was God's purpose to create Humanity | in his own image, we must conclude that he | is
    | omniscient, omnipotent and incompetent. |
    +----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  11. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Sheldon Brown writes:

    >>>> I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently under
    >>>> the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but needle
    >>>> bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with use. They
    >>>> are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.

    >>> This is a great example of where theory and practice diverge.

    >>> The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    >>> they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!

    >> Well mine always bound up and did not allow the wheel to swing freely on the bearing
    >> adjustment test.

    > It is true that these headsets don't turn as freely as ball bearing units, probably due to the use
    > of cylindrical rather than conical rollers.

    Not so. I think you can visualize that there is no radial locating mechanism in the roller
    compliment, held together by its plastic cage, with no inaner or outer contact with either race. The
    conical slope does not center these rollers, its effect being cosine error (aka zero for small
    angles). Therefore, the roller complement prefers to slide off to the low side of the head bearing
    and thereby causes the binding as rollers skew across the parallel conical races.

    > However, they do turn freely enough to permit riding "no hands" and that is as free as is needed.
    > It's not as if the headset were part of the drivetrain.

    You can ride no-hands with a plastic bushing. That is not the problem. When adjusting the bearing,
    its free motion without clearance (clunking on bumps) cannot be assessed, there being no free
    position. This becomes evident when adjusting these units.

    >> To make up for that, it got dimples just like the ball bearing ones that I also experienced.

    > Your experience in this, as with the broken cranks, is unusual and anomalous. Most people don't
    > have either of these problems.

    I think that can better be classified as do not observe that their head bearing is binding or
    dimpling. That cranks fail is documented:

    http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

    > Perhaps you need to see an exorcist...

    I get plenty of exercise on my bicycle. It's obvious you need a session with King Gillette to
    sharpen your appreciation of krank failures. (My father used Krank's Shaving cream, a long
    gone brand.)

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  12. Terry Rudd

    Terry Rudd Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Gary Jacobson writes:
    >
    >
    >>http://www.stronglight.com/anglais/produits/prodf1.htm
    >
    >
    >>In the recent past I 've had trouble finding an English Stronglight website. Thought to share it
    >>with NG readers.
    >
    >
    > The one that comes up with GOOGLE: http://www.stronglight.com/ is good enough, having icons for
    > Francaise/English, however, looking at their "Cranks" oops, "Cranksets" gives me the willies about
    > their designing. The spider of the Ironlight is doomed to fail under torque, possibly even from
    > overload , but fatigue for sure. The ramped features do not fool stress that must get from spindle
    > to chainring.

    I think it is a bit unfair to generalize negatively about their cranksets and then focus only on the
    Ironlight. I agree with your assessment on that cranks but feel the Speedlight is as good as Campy
    Chorus and Record. I have been riding them for a couple of years now and very much like them. >
    >
    >>They have an interesting cold forged and CNC'd 110 bcd double crankset, Granfondo. The 113 BB,
    >>"Boitier de pédalier SBB", works with it.
    >
    >
    > What is also interesting is the endless different and incompatible models of cranks. This has got
    > to be more expensive than it is worth. I also notice that they are still offering the disproven
    > needle head bearing, apparently under the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it
    > is not. Not only that, but needle bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement
    > becomes un-centered with use. They are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.
    >
    > Oh well. It will be tough going against <C> and STI. Who finances these products?

    Zefal these days.

    Terry

    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  13. Terry Rudd <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > I think it is a bit unfair to generalize negatively about their cranksets and then focus only
    > on the Ironlight. I agree with your assessment on that cranks but feel the Speedlight is as
    > good as Campy Chorus and Record. I have been riding them for a couple of years now and very
    > much like them.

    The Speedlight is an excellent product. The only reason I don't own one any more is that lack of
    cash forced me to sell it :-( Here in the UK, they sell for about £110-£120 brand new, giving a
    hefty saving compared to the Shimano/TA/Campag equivalents.

    David E. Belcher

    Dept. of Chemistry, University of York
     
  14. Dianne_1234

    Dianne_1234 Guest

    Photo of dimpled Stronglight A9 headset races:
    http://www.geocities.com/dianne_1234/bikes/stronglightA9dimpled.jpg

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Sheldon Brown writes:
    >
    > >>>> I also notice that they are still offering the disproven needle head bearing, apparently
    > >>>> under the belief that bearing failure is from Brinelling, which it is not. Not only that, but
    > >>>> needle bearings are noted for binding because the needle complement becomes un-centered with
    > >>>> use. They are not immune to fretting dimples. I have examples.
    >
    > >>> This is a great example of where theory and practice diverge.
    >
    > >>> The Stronglight roller bearing headsets are full of theoretical flaws--but in actual practice,
    > >>> they're among the most reliable and long-lived headsets ever!
    >
    > >> Well mine always bound up and did not allow the wheel to swing freely on the bearing adjustment
    > >> test.
    >
    > > It is true that these headsets don't turn as freely as ball bearing units, probably due to the
    > > use of cylindrical rather than conical rollers.
    >
    > Not so. I think you can visualize that there is no radial locating mechanism in the roller
    > compliment, held together by its plastic cage, with no inaner or outer contact with either race.
    > The conical slope does not center these rollers, its effect being cosine error (aka zero for small
    > angles). Therefore, the roller complement prefers to slide off to the low side of the head bearing
    > and thereby causes the binding as rollers skew across the parallel conical races.
    >
    > > However, they do turn freely enough to permit riding "no hands" and that is as free as is
    > > needed. It's not as if the headset were part of the drivetrain.
    >
    > You can ride no-hands with a plastic bushing. That is not the problem. When adjusting the bearing,
    > its free motion without clearance (clunking on bumps) cannot be assessed, there being no free
    > position. This becomes evident when adjusting these units.
    >
    > >> To make up for that, it got dimples just like the ball bearing ones that I also experienced.
    >
    > > Your experience in this, as with the broken cranks, is unusual and anomalous. Most people don't
    > > have either of these problems.
    >
    > I think that can better be classified as do not observe that their head bearing is binding or
    > dimpling. That cranks fail is documented:
    >
    > http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
    >
    > > Perhaps you need to see an exorcist...
    >
    > I get plenty of exercise on my bicycle. It's obvious you need a session with King Gillette to
    > sharpen your appreciation of krank failures. (My father used Krank's Shaving cream, a long
    > gone brand.)
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
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