New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Yo!, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. Yo!

    Yo! Guest

    Tags:


  2. Mike V

    Mike V Guest

    "yo!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition
    > of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------
    >

    do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

    Wuz, is your reporting balanced? (;-}) (You are more prejudiced than TC!)

    "......On the other hand, IR women randomized to the LC/HF diet lost significantly more weight than
    those randomized to the HC/LF diet" Obese SI women lose more weight on a hypocaloric diet that is
    low in fat content, while a hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate and higher in fat content
    appears to be more effective in obese IR women."

    MikeV

    ....."Controversy exists as to whether the macronutrient composition of a hypocaloric diet can
    enhance its effectiveness. It is also unclear whether an individual[rsquo]s insulin sensitivity
    determines their response to a diet. We examined the effect of energy-matched hypocaloric diets
    (400 kcal/d deficit) composed of either high carbohydrate, low fat (HC/LF) or low carbohydrate,
    high fat (LC/HF) on weight loss and insulin sensitivity (Si) in obese women (n=24). Obese insulin
    sensitive (IS: fasting insulin
    <10[mu]U/ml) and obese insulin resistant (IR: fasting insulin >15[mu]U/ml) women were randomized to
    either a HC/LF (60% C, 20% F, 20% P) or LC/HF (40% C, 40% F, 20% P) hypocaloric diet
    for 16 weeks. All food was provided to the subjects. Body weight, body composition,
    fasting lipids, resting metabolic rate (RMR), and Si were measured at baseline and
    again at the end of the dietary intervention. Subjects lost at least the expected
    amount of weight ([ge]5.8 kg). IS women randomized to the HC/LF diet lost a
    significantly greater amount of weight than those randomized to the LC/HF diet
    (11.47±0.80 kg vs. 6.12±1.13 kg, p<0.01). On the other hand, IR women randomized to the
    LC/HF diet lost significantly more weight than those randomized to the HC/LF diet (11.46±1.23 kg vs.
    6.12±0.85 kg, p<0.05). RMR did not change significantly in any of the groups. Si trended to
    improve in the IR groups (HC/LF: 2.22± 0.60% to 3.32± 1.04%; LC/HF: 1.49±0.54% to 3.56±0.66%;
    p=0.096) but remained unchanged in the IS groups. Overall, changes in Si correlated with the
    degree of weight loss (r=0.71, p<0.05). There were no significant changes in cholesterol.
    Triglycerides decreased significantly in all groups except the IR women on the HC/LF diet. These
    findings demonstrate that baseline insulin sensitivity in obese women predicts the effectiveness
    to hypocaloric diets of varying macronutrient compositions. Obese SI women lose more weight on a
    hypocaloric diet that is low in fat content, while a hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate
    and higher in fat content appears to be more effective in obese IR women.
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    This is just an abstract (meaning it has not been peer-reviewed).

    The studies that have been done have had different results. The answer of whether low-carb or
    low-fat is better is not an easy one.

    However, there is an easy answer: Low-cal is the key. If you take in fewer calories than you burn,
    you will lose weight.

    Jeff
     
  4. Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff rambled on about "Re: New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat
    over 4 m." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >If you take in fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight.

    ????

    Who the heck wants to lose weight?

    Oh you mean, ... Losers?

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha! Pun intended
     
  5. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

    The Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women Is
    Dependent on Their Baseline Insulin Sensitivity

    Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research in Clinical Nutrition -
    06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 313-OR Authors: MARC-ANDRE CORNIER, WILLIAM T.
    DONAHOO, JAMES O. HILL, ROBERT H. ECKEL, BORIS DRAZNIN Institution: Denver, CO

    About Dr. Eckel.....

    "Robert H. Eckel, M.D., Division of Endocrinology, Health Sciences Center, University of
    Colorado. Research on the "effect of medium chain triglycerides on glucose and lipid metabolism
    in type II diabetes melitus" was supported by Procter and Gamble. Research on "the effect of
    leptin on postprandial lipid metabolism" was supported by Amgen. (Undated resume on file at CSPI;
    accessed 6/18/02)"

    I notice that there is no declaration as to who paid for this particular piece of research.

    And isn't it interesting how whenever a study slams the low-carb diet, there always seems to be
    pharma sponsorship involved somewhere in the researchers past, oresent or future. Invariably.
    Always. Never fails.

    Check out these two abstracts: 309-OR and 312-OR.

    Check and mate. Nice try wuzzy.

    TC
     
  6. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

    More on Dr. Robert H. Eckel:

    http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/eckel-r.html

    What a character.

    TC
     
  7. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

    Regarding Dr. Eckel, the author of this "study".

    Dr Eckel the creationist:

    http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-346.htm

    "Eckel is the chair of the American Heart Association committee on nutrition..."

    Corporate sponsors of the American Heart Association.

    ********************************************************PARTNERS Partners recognizes corporations
    and foundations for lifetime giving of $1,000,000 and above Archer Daniels Midland Company –
    Illinois AstraZeneca LP – Pennsylvania Aventis Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania Averitt
    Express Associate Charities – Tennessee Bayer Corporation – New Jersey Bristol-Myers
    Squibb Company – New Jersey The Henrietta B. and Frederick H. Bugher Foundation – New
    York Citi – Delaware GlaxoSmithKline – Pennsylvania Guidant Corporation – Indiana
    Guidant Foundation – Indiana Harriet and Robert Heilbrunn – New York The J. Willard and
    Alice S. Marriott Foundation – District of Columbia Carlos and Marguerite Mason Trust –
    Georgia Medicine Shoppe International, Inc. – Missouri Mercedes-Benz, USA, LLC – New
    Jersey Merck & Co., Inc. – Pennsylvania Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corp. – New Jersey
    Omron Healthcare, Inc. – Illinois Pfizer, Inc. – New York Procter & Gamble Company
    – Ohio Random House, Inc. – New York Sanofi-Synthelabo – New York Schering-Plough
    Corporation – New Jersey Subway – Connecticut Takeda Pharmaceuticals – Illinois
    United Way of Southeastern PA – Pennsylvania Walgreen Co. – Illinois The Harry and
    Jeanette Weinberg Foundation – Hawaii Wyeth-Ayerst Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania
    *******************************************

    Chew on that a while.

    TC
     
  8. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

    Even more damning info about Dr Eckel.

    Dr Eckel is on the Keystone Symposia advisory board:

    http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/AdvisoryBoard.cfm

    Here are the symposias sponsors:

    http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/Sponsors.cfm

    The infamous DB Allison, the master whore of the pharmaceutical industry used Dr Eckel as a personal
    reference on his CV. Check the reference section near the bottom of this page.

    http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/obesectr/NYORC/DACV.html

    also from his CV:

    PAST GRANTS

    Allison, D. B. (principal investigator), Eckel, R., Pi-Sunyer, F. X., Fisler, J., & Ravussin, E.
    Advancing the Genetics of Obesity: Strategies & Methods. An R13 (conference grant) funded by the
    National Institute of Diabetes, Digestive and Kidney Diseases and the Office of Research on
    Women's Health and supported by numerous industrial sponsors. Total Amount: $110,000. Conference
    held July, 1997.

    TC
     
  9. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

    A bit on DB Allison from his CV:

    INDUSTRY Consultant to Millenium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated on issues related to the genetic
    influences on obesity. Consultant to AMGEN on issues related to the clinical study of leptin as an
    anti-obesity therapeutic, 1999. Consultant to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals on issues related to the
    treatment of human obesity, 1999. Consultant to Wilentz, Goldman, & Spitzer, Attorneys at Law
    regarding OTC weight-loss product claims litigation, 1999. Consultant to McKenna & Cuneo, L.L.P.,
    Attorneys at Law regarding anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998 to present. Consultant to Fisons
    Corporation & Mediva Pharmaceuticals regarding anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998. Consultant to
    Spadoro & Hilson, Attorneys at Law regarding actuarial lifetable estimation for obese decedents,
    1998. Consultant to Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals on weight gain with neuroleptic medication,
    1997-Present. Consultant to Pfizer Central Research, Inc. on obesity related issues, 1997-Present.
    Consultant to Proctor & Gamble regarding olestra (Olean); 1998. Consultant to Decision Resources on
    the pharmacological treatment of obesity, October, 1999. Member of "Panel of Evaluators" for Current
    Drugs Ltd, a company that provides expert information on drugs under research and development, 1998.
    Consultant to Research Testing Laboratories, Inc. regarding clinical trial of weight loss
    preparation for Slim America, 1996. Member of the Nutritional Advisory Board for Nabisco, Inc., 1994
    - Present. Member of the United Soybean Panel's Nutrition Advisory Board, 1996 - Present. Member of
    the Wheat Council's panel of experts, 1998 - Present. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding
    issues in the pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996. Consulted with Knoll
    Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the treatment of obesity - April, 1997. Consultant to Corning
    HTA (for a project sponsored by Wyeth Ayerst) regarding the economic benefits of obesity treatment,
    1996-1997. Consultant to the journal Patient Care on an article regarding the pharmacological
    treatment of obesity, 1997. Consulted with Glaxo Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the
    pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.

    *********************

    What would these companies do if everyone went on a low-carb diet and didn't need to use their
    snake-oil treatments?

    TC
     
  10. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    yo! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >
    >
    > -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

    The Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women Is
    Dependent on Their Baseline Insulin Sensitivity

    Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research in Clinical Nutrition -
    06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 313-OR Authors: MARC-ANDRE CORNIER, WILLIAM T.
    DONAHOO, JAMES O. HILL, ROBERT H. ECKEL, BORIS DRAZNIN Institution: Denver, CO

    About Dr. Eckel.....

    "Robert H. Eckel, M.D., Division of Endocrinology, Health Sciences Center, University of
    Colorado. Research on the "effect of medium chain triglycerides on glucose and lipid metabolism
    in type II diabetes melitus" was supported by Procter and Gamble. Research on "the effect of
    leptin on postprandial lipid metabolism" was supported by Amgen. (Undated resume on file at CSPI;
    accessed 6/18/02)"

    I notice that there is no declaration as to who paid for this particular piece of research.

    And isn't it interesting how whenever a study slams the low-carb diet, there always seems to be
    pharma sponsorship involved somewhere in the researchers past, oresent or future. Invariably.
    Always. Never fails.

    More on Dr. Robert H. Eckel:

    http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/eckel-r.html

    What a character.

    http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-346.htm

    "Eckel is the chair of the American Heart Association committee on nutrition..."

    Corporate sponsors of the American Heart Association.

    ********************************************************PARTNERS Partners recognizes corporations
    and foundations for lifetime giving of $1,000,000 and above Archer Daniels Midland Company –
    Illinois AstraZeneca LP – Pennsylvania Aventis Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania Averitt
    Express Associate Charities – Tennessee Bayer Corporation – New Jersey Bristol-Myers
    Squibb Company – New Jersey The Henrietta B. and Frederick H. Bugher Foundation – New
    York Citi – Delaware GlaxoSmithKline – Pennsylvania Guidant Corporation – Indiana
    Guidant Foundation – Indiana Harriet and Robert Heilbrunn – New York The J. Willard and
    Alice S. Marriott Foundation – District of Columbia Carlos and Marguerite Mason Trust –
    Georgia Medicine Shoppe International, Inc. – Missouri Mercedes-Benz, USA, LLC – New
    Jersey Merck & Co., Inc. – Pennsylvania Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corp. – New Jersey
    Omron Healthcare, Inc. – Illinois Pfizer, Inc. – New York Procter & Gamble Company
    – Ohio Random House, Inc. – New York Sanofi-Synthelabo – New York Schering-Plough
    Corporation – New Jersey Subway – Connecticut Takeda Pharmaceuticals – Illinois
    United Way of Southeastern PA – Pennsylvania Walgreen Co. – Illinois The Harry and
    Jeanette Weinberg Foundation – Hawaii Wyeth-Ayerst Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania
    *******************************************

    Dr Eckel is on the Keystone Symposia advisory board:

    http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/AdvisoryBoard.cfm

    Here are the symposias sponsors:

    http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/Sponsors.cfm

    The infamous DB Allison, the master whore of the pharmaceutical industry used Dr Eckel as a personal
    reference on his CV. Check the reference section near the bottom of this page.

    http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/obesectr/NYORC/DACV.html

    also from his CV:

    PAST GRANTS

    Allison, D. B. (principal investigator), Eckel, R., Pi-Sunyer, F. X., Fisler, J., & Ravussin, E.
    Advancing the Genetics of Obesity: Strategies & Methods. An R13 (conference grant) funded by the
    National Institute of Diabetes, Digestive and Kidney Diseases and the Office of Research on
    Women's Health and supported by numerous industrial sponsors. Total Amount: $110,000. Conference
    held July, 1997.

    A bit on DB Allison from his CV:

    INDUSTRY Consultant to Millenium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated on issues related to the genetic
    influences on obesity. Consultant to AMGEN on issues related to the clinical study of leptin as an
    anti-obesity therapeutic, 1999. Consultant to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals on issues related to the
    treatment of human obesity, 1999. Consultant to Wilentz, Goldman, & Spitzer, Attorneys at Law
    regarding OTC weight-loss product claims litigation, 1999. Consultant to McKenna & Cuneo, L.L.P.,
    Attorneys at Law regarding anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998 to present. Consultant to Fisons
    Corporation & Mediva Pharmaceuticals regarding anti-obesity drug litigation, 1998. Consultant to
    Spadoro & Hilson, Attorneys at Law regarding actuarial lifetable estimation for obese decedents,
    1998. Consultant to Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals on weight gain with neuroleptic medication,
    1997-Present. Consultant to Pfizer Central Research, Inc. on obesity related issues, 1997-Present.
    Consultant to Proctor & Gamble regarding olestra (Olean); 1998. Consultant to Decision Resources on
    the pharmacological treatment of obesity, October, 1999. Member of "Panel of Evaluators" for Current
    Drugs Ltd, a company that provides expert information on drugs under research and development, 1998.
    Consultant to Research Testing Laboratories, Inc. regarding clinical trial of weight loss
    preparation for Slim America, 1996. Member of the Nutritional Advisory Board for Nabisco, Inc., 1994
    - Present. Member of the United Soybean Panel's Nutrition Advisory Board, 1996 - Present. Member of
    the Wheat Council's panel of experts, 1998 - Present. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding
    issues in the pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996. Consulted with Knoll
    Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the treatment of obesity - April, 1997. Consultant to Corning
    HTA (for a project sponsored by Wyeth Ayerst) regarding the economic benefits of obesity treatment,
    1996-1997. Consultant to the journal Patient Care on an article regarding the pharmacological
    treatment of obesity, 1997. Consulted with Glaxo Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the
    pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.

    *********************

    What would these companies do if everyone went on a low-carb diet and didn't need to use their
    snake-oil treatments?

    TC
     
  11. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 11/16/2003 1:54 PM, Mike V wrote:
    > "yo!" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low carb.
    >
    > http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he
    > Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition
    >
    >> of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
    >>
    >>
    >>-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------
    >>
    >
    >
    > do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

    I thought that low carb said you could loose weight without counting calories?

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  12. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 11/17/2003 12:36 PM, Susan wrote:

    > In article jmk <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >
    >>I thought that low carb said you could lose weight without counting calories?
    >
    >
    > Where does "low carb" say that? Who, exactly, is this "low carb" you're quoting?

    I am very sorry that I was unclear. People on low carb generally state that they do not count
    calories, they count carbohydrates. People who use a calorie counting regime as a weight loss plan
    do count calories. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the calorie counting group counted
    calories (and in this case with a deficit of 400 KCal per day which would be less than one pound per
    week of weight loss) and the low carbohydrate group counted carbohydrates. In fact, Atkins own
    website states: "The Atkins Nutritional Approach(TM) counts grams of carbohydrates instead of
    calories."
    --
    jmk in NC
     
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