New Thread...Back to Cycling?? Maybe?



Felt_Rider

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Oct 24, 2004
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So now I can change my title from recreational club cyclist to Cross Fit.

I think I like that pretty good since I do more than just cycle.
Now if I could just find time to put in some MMA sparring in my week like I used to years ago. Lifting, cycling, hiking, fighting......

Back in the day my off season was to get bulked up as heavy as I could and lift heavy and act as a punching bag for a friend that was a Mauy Thia kickboxer. He was about 5 inches taller than me and had some incredible fighting skills and I really think he liked kicking the **** out me on a regular basis. :)
 

kopride

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May 17, 2006
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jsirabella said:
Karma may be calling out to me...talk about timing.


And it's easy to see the appeal: Why be big if you're not functional? Why have great endurance if you have no strength and power? Why not be competent in all of those things?

Critics point out that being "competent" at everything makes you great at nothing. It's a valid criticism, but it doesn't bother the CrossFit community. They revel in their versatility and believe strongly that being skilled in every aspect of fitness makes them, as their T-shirts proclaim, "unfuckwithable."


-js
These guys are also big fans of kettlebells/bodyweight training over weights. And it is a different kind of fitness. Currently, the US Secret service uses a 10 minute kettle bell ****** test (53 pounds) for its counter terrorism team. They believe that it is the truest test of the type of functional strenght and fitness you can achieve. its very simple, you have 10 minutes and have to ****** and lock out a 53 pound kettlebell as many times as you can, using either hand. No running test, calistenics, bench press.
 

jsirabella

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Off topic...since I am counting calories now and protein, carbs and fat,...yes I can get nutty.

According to the powertap it says I burned 1283kj today which most folks says is about 1283 kcal but is a kcal and calorie the same. I just want to see how many calories I burned on the two ride today. I saw posts from dave that had 4*AP*hours but the kcal and cal were thrown around by others and not sure if the same thing.

I know on protein we are looking at 1 - 1.5 grams per pound to grow I believe. How about fat and carbs to just maintain?

Also some sites 1200 -2000 calories per day to maintain, is that correct and how much to loose a pound, 3500 calories, correct?

-js


kopride said:
These guys are also big fans of kettlebells/bodyweight training over weights. And it is a different kind of fitness. Currently, the US Secret service uses a 10 minute kettle bell ****** test (53 pounds) for its counter terrorism team. They believe that it is the truest test of the type of functional strenght and fitness you can achieve. its very simple, you have 10 minutes and have to ****** and lock out a 53 pound kettlebell as many times as you can, using either hand. No running test, calistenics, bench press.
 

ruleof72

New Member
Jan 18, 2006
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jsirabella said:
Off topic...since I am counting calories now and protein, carbs and fat,...yes I can get nutty.

According to the powertap it says I burned 1283kj today which most folks says is about 1283 kcal but is a kcal and calorie the same. I just want to see how many calories I burned on the two ride today. I saw posts from dave that had 4*AP*hours but the kcal and cal were thrown around by others and not sure if the same thing.

I know on protein we are looking at 1 - 1.5 grams per pound to grow I believe. How about fat and carbs to just maintain?

Also some sites 1200 -2000 calories per day to maintain, is that correct and how much to loose a pound, 3500 calories, correct?

-js
I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between kj and kcal, I think they are close enough if I remember correctly. 1-1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight/day is what I have been working off of for a while and I have suffered no ill efects that I know of.

As to how many calories are needed to maintain, I think that will vary from person to person. If you are burning lots of calories from riding ect. your "base rate" will be higher than someone who doesn't workout. You are correct about 3500 calories being the amount you need to burn in excess of your base rate in order to lose a pound.
 

jsirabella

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Thanks for the answer but is a kcal = cal? So is 1283 KCAL = 1283 calories? According to my ride today I burned 1283 kj so is that really 1283 calories?

-js


ruleof72 said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between kj and kcal, I think they are close enough if I remember correctly. 1-1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight/day is what I have been working off of for a while and I have suffered no ill efects that I know of.

As to how many calories are needed to maintain, I think that will vary from person to person. If you are burning lots of calories from riding ect. your "base rate" will be higher than someone who doesn't workout. You are correct about 3500 calories being the amount you need to burn in excess of your base rate in order to lose a pound.
 

daveryanwyoming

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Oct 3, 2006
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jsirabella said:
Thanks for the answer but is a kcal = cal? So is 1283 KCAL = 1283 calories? According to my ride today I burned 1283 kj so is that really 1283 calories?

-js
A dietary Calorie (emphasis capital C) is equal to a physics kilocalorie. IOW, in physics a calorie is defined as the energy reguired to raise one ml of water by one degree centigrade. Nutritionists define a Calorie as the amount of energy required to raise one liter of water by one degree centigrade, or 1000 times the energy that physicists and engineers are talking about. Yeah that's confusing.

To make it a bit more confusing, your PT reports kilo joules, not kilo calories. They're closely related and for practical purposes you can just read the energy burned from your PT display and treat it as Calories (in the dietary sense). Realistically the relationship between kj and Calories depends on your own metabolic efficiency but that's not an easy thing to measure. Many gym cardio machines (like Lifecycles) use a multiplier of 1.1 to get from kj to Calories but that's just a swag.

Considering the uncertainty in measuring exactly how many Calories you ingest or exactly how many Calories you burn during the rest of your day when you're not exercising just reading the kj displayed by your PT and treating it as Calories is plenty accurate for weight tracking purposes.

-Dave
P.S....so yeah, if the E display on your PT reads 1283, just treat that as 1283 Calories burned.....
 

ruleof72

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Jan 18, 2006
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jsirabella said:
Thanks for the answer but is a kcal = cal? So is 1283 KCAL = 1283 calories? According to my ride today I burned 1283 kj so is that really 1283 calories?

-js
What Dave said:) I actually asked my personal staff Food Scientist (wife) and she said basically the same thing.
 

jsirabella

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Thanks Dave...

Nutritionists define a Calorie as the amount of energy required to raise one liter of water by one degree centigrade...

I remember now ... from Supersize Me....

See you came down from the mountains in one piece...hope it was fun.

-js



daveryanwyoming said:
A dietary Calorie (emphasis capital C) is equal to a physics kilocalorie. IOW, in physics a calorie is defined as the energy reguired to raise one ml of water by one degree centigrade. Nutritionists define a Calorie as the amount of energy required to raise one liter of water by one degree centigrade, or 1000 times the energy that physicists and engineers are talking about. Yeah that's confusing.

To make it a bit more confusing, your PT reports kilo joules, not kilo calories. They're closely related and for practical purposes you can just read the energy burned from your PT display and treat it as Calories (in the dietary sense). Realistically the relationship between kj and Calories depends on your own metabolic efficiency but that's not an easy thing to measure. Many gym cardio machines (like Lifecycles) use a multiplier of 1.1 to get from kj to Calories but that's just a swag.

Considering the uncertainty in measuring exactly how many Calories you ingest or exactly how many Calories you burn during the rest of your day when you're not exercising just reading the kj displayed by your PT and treating it as Calories is plenty accurate for weight tracking purposes.

-Dave
P.S....so yeah, if the E display on your PT reads 1283, just treat that as 1283 Calories burned.....
 

kopride

Member
May 17, 2006
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jsirabella said:
Thanks Dave...

Nutritionists define a Calorie as the amount of energy required to raise one liter of water by one degree centigrade...

I remember now ... from Supersize Me....

See you came down from the mountains in one piece...hope it was fun.

-js
I checked my weight this morning and was 169. I am still following my basic, three good meals during the week, no junk food, take out, or in between snacks, and then more relaxed eating during the weekends. (I can usually get some longer rides in during the weekends so it seems to balance out). Anything around 165 is starting to get pretty darn lean for me. Good luck dropping a few, but I find just eliminating **** out of your diet goes a long way to reaching a sensible weight. Because you are not rally starving yourself of good calories, the energy level stays up for the workouts as well.
 

jsirabella

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You and Felt are a bit lighter than me....still struggling not so much with the ability to loose weight but the wanting...started to weights this week and I was a bit of a wuss. I did take off a month but it felt like I loss alot more time than that. I should have been that sore...I have started to work in more core if I want to get the abs.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/death_to_crunching

The other thing is I started to track everything and I can get a bit fanatical about it. Maybe one of you folks know better than me but is it fat, carbs or just calories to get the bodyfat % down. I am actually still shooting for atleast 220 granms of protein per day.

I attached a snapshot of my latest sheet...

-js

Ran into a bit of bad luck wed night. My daughter had her laundry in the hallway. I moved to not walk on it and my small toe jammed right into the archway of the door. It hurt like an SOB. Thought it was done, woke up the next morning and swell up and all black and blue. Hard to walk in sneakers...not sure how this weekend will go for training....




kopride said:
I checked my weight this morning and was 169. I am still following my basic, three good meals during the week, no junk food, take out, or in between snacks, and then more relaxed eating during the weekends. (I can usually get some longer rides in during the weekends so it seems to balance out). Anything around 165 is starting to get pretty darn lean for me. Good luck dropping a few, but I find just eliminating **** out of your diet goes a long way to reaching a sensible weight. Because you are not rally starving yourself of good calories, the energy level stays up for the workouts as well.
 

kopride

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May 17, 2006
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jsirabella said:
I attached a snapshot of my latest sheet...

-js
You are much more scientific than me. My only comment is that I am not a big fan of protein, gel bars, whey shakes, or anything like that. I think I mentioned that I used to defend a lot of the individuals in the "food supplement industry" and have the same feelings about them as I do after witnessing sausage making. I am painting with a broad brush so I am sure that there are good players out there, but the bad actors are really bad.

Generally, a former wrestlers quick guide to long term weight loss:

1) Don't drink any calories, i.e. soda, fruit juice, energy drinks, milky cofee drinks, keep beer and wine to minimum. (black coffee, unsweetened Iced tea, water diet cokes)
2) Minimal processed sugar. For example, I like shredded wheat over "health cereals" because there is no added sugar. If I add sugar to cereal, it is in the form of raisins or dried fruit. Its why I don't like power bars and **** like that, they are just candy bars
3) No empty carbohydrates; i.e pretzels, bagels, whitebread, pizza, etc.
4) No fried snacks; chips, fries, etc
5) Pack lunch every day, sandwich, fruit, raw carrots
6) Prepare your own dinner, large serving lean protien, rice or non fried starch -reasonable portion; large helping of green veggies.
7) No takeout (pizza chinese) or restraunt food during the week
8) skim milk with breakfast and non fat cottage cheese if not getting enough protein.
9) reasonable dessert only on weekends

During the weekend, I will relax 3 and 7 a bit, but I don't go crazy, i.e. 2 slices of pizza. I find that by skipping the mid week prepared foods and packing lunch, I save enough money that we can really eat a nice meal out on the weekends, go to a local farmers market and buy really high quality locally grown food, and eat a big old fashioned sunday dinner (Roast beef, turkey etc with all the trimmings, HM Spagetti and meatballs).

The point to my "program" is to make real lasting lifestyle changes for the whole family that are very easy to maintain. Ironically, it is pretty close to the diet that most americans had 30 or 40 years ago. And, I never really had problems sucking weight in HS because it really was my mom's old "weight program" growing up. My 5'3" wife weighs 108 and exercises regularly; I am about 6' and weigh 168-175; and aside from my oldest son who has visions of being a D-1 offensive lineman and currently looks like one and plays HS football, it seems to work for the whole family. We have regular evening meals where the TV is off and we have to talk to each other; and no TV or video games during the week for the kids so I guess I am considered a nazi by modern american standards. My wife and I also work full time so it does require planning and shuffling around by both of us.

I run into trouble while travelling on the road, but even then, I always stay in a hotel that has a gym, eat a big breakfast, steal a banana and yogurt from breakfast for a quick mid afternoon snack and then eat a real fine meal for dinner at a good restraunt. Even then, I will pick up a few pounds if I am on the road and break my routine for awhile.

it is not a diet for a powerlifter of high performance athlete. It is a lifestyle diet that a family of 6 maintains to stay healthy and enjoy the things they like to do. It is also not a thing I do for a few months to knock off pounds and then fall off the wagon. About 5 years ago, I was basically on a modified Atkins and it was very hard on the whole family and made everybody think that they were entitled to a "special meal." Aside from having more energy now for cardio, I have not gained any weight eating sensible carbs.
 

jsirabella

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Well if I am going to do this I should do it right so as I talked about this morning I took the measurements and wrote them all down and took some pics. God they are hard to look at but maybe the public humiliation will help. It is hard to see yourself with your shirt off in a photo...:eek:

Well according to the scale I weight 175 lbs today and my measurements from my trusty myotape are

Waist - 85
Arms - 38
Thigh - 56
Chest - 99
Calf - 34
Neck 42
Shoulders 118

The scale says BF% = ~15 but from where I am looking at this pic. I would probably say not likely but as long as it is constant I do not care.

I have included a pic of the abs as the rest of me is just too hard to look at especially if you have just ate....a face only a mom could love.

Now as far as the cycling goes I am in the low watts mode and putting in some hours. I am feeling definitely alot better and was able to start the weights. Went with my usual bench and deadlift followed by hammer pull downs. I have than started some core exercises also and someone pointed me towards g-flux which I really think may be a good thing for me. Doing my research on it now...

-js

Damn when I am in the gym and after a good pump I know I look alot better but this may as well be the start.


kopride said:
You are much more scientific than me. My only comment is that I am not a big fan of protein, gel bars, whey shakes, or anything like that. I think I mentioned that I used to defend a lot of the individuals in the "food supplement industry" and have the same feelings about them as I do after witnessing sausage making. I am painting with a broad brush so I am sure that there are good players out there, but the bad actors are really bad.

Generally, a former wrestlers quick guide to long term weight loss:

1) Don't drink any calories, i.e. soda, fruit juice, energy drinks, milky cofee drinks, keep beer and wine to minimum. (black coffee, unsweetened Iced tea, water diet cokes)
2) Minimal processed sugar. For example, I like shredded wheat over "health cereals" because there is no added sugar. If I add sugar to cereal, it is in the form of raisins or dried fruit. Its why I don't like power bars and **** like that, they are just candy bars
3) No empty carbohydrates; i.e pretzels, bagels, whitebread, pizza, etc.
4) No fried snacks; chips, fries, etc
5) Pack lunch every day, sandwich, fruit, raw carrots
6) Prepare your own dinner, large serving lean protien, rice or non fried starch -reasonable portion; large helping of green veggies.
7) No takeout (pizza chinese) or restraunt food during the week
8) skim milk with breakfast and non fat cottage cheese if not getting enough protein.
9) reasonable dessert only on weekends

During the weekend, I will relax 3 and 7 a bit, but I don't go crazy, i.e. 2 slices of pizza. I find that by skipping the mid week prepared foods and packing lunch, I save enough money that we can really eat a nice meal out on the weekends, go to a local farmers market and buy really high quality locally grown food, and eat a big old fashioned sunday dinner (Roast beef, turkey etc with all the trimmings, HM Spagetti and meatballs).

The point to my "program" is to make real lasting lifestyle changes for the whole family that are very easy to maintain. Ironically, it is pretty close to the diet that most americans had 30 or 40 years ago. And, I never really had problems sucking weight in HS because it really was my mom's old "weight program" growing up. My 5'3" wife weighs 108 and exercises regularly; I am about 6' and weigh 168-175; and aside from my oldest son who has visions of being a D-1 offensive lineman and currently looks like one and plays HS football, it seems to work for the whole family. We have regular evening meals where the TV is off and we have to talk to each other; and no TV or video games during the week for the kids so I guess I am considered a nazi by modern american standards. My wife and I also work full time so it does require planning and shuffling around by both of us.

I run into trouble while travelling on the road, but even then, I always stay in a hotel that has a gym, eat a big breakfast, steal a banana and yogurt from breakfast for a quick mid afternoon snack and then eat a real fine meal for dinner at a good restraunt. Even then, I will pick up a few pounds if I am on the road and break my routine for awhile.

it is not a diet for a powerlifter of high performance athlete. It is a lifestyle diet that a family of 6 maintains to stay healthy and enjoy the things they like to do. It is also not a thing I do for a few months to knock off pounds and then fall off the wagon. About 5 years ago, I was basically on a modified Atkins and it was very hard on the whole family and made everybody think that they were entitled to a "special meal." Aside from having more energy now for cardio, I have not gained any weight eating sensible carbs.
 

kopride

Member
May 17, 2006
1,012
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38
jsirabella said:
Well according to the scale I weight 175 lbs today and my measurements from my trusty myotape are

Waist - 85
Arms - 38
Thigh - 56
Chest - 99
Calf - 34
Neck 42
Shoulders 118

The scale says BF% = ~15 but from where I am looking at this pic. I would probably say not likely but as long as it is constant I do not care.

I
Now as far as the cycling goes I am in the low watts mode and putting in some hours. I am feeling definitely alot better and was able to start the weights. Went with my usual bench and deadlift followed by hammer pull downs. I have than started some core exercises also and someone pointed me towards g-flux which I really think may be a good thing for me. Doing my research on it now...
Having seen you in person, I am assuming that the measurements are in cm (not inches) and that you haven't become a massive distorted giant. Deadlifts are a pretty taxing exercise and certainly hit the core. You should try kettlebells and some more bodyweight stuff. A lot of bang for the buck. Look at gymnists and wrestlers. Great strength, very lean, good strenght to weight ratio. These guys would look comfortable riding or running. Powerlifting is very specialized.
 

jsirabella

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Yeah in cm as I know my personality even a 1cm gain will mean alot to me to keep going.

I honestly do not consider my deadlift goal to be anything that special in the big scheme of things and I am trying to create a program that makes me fit but not huge. Lets see how it all works out. I have been trying to work in more bodyweight exercises that are a bit more cross fit oriented and this g-flux really sounds like it may give me what I am looking for.

I may be able to have my proverbial cake and eat it too...you should check this article out and while it sounds simple it really is not....

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...mance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/gflux_redux

-js


kopride said:
Having seen you in person, I am assuming that the measurements are in cm (not inches) and that you haven't become a massive distorted giant. Deadlifts are a pretty taxing exercise and certainly hit the core. You should try kettlebells and some more bodyweight stuff. A lot of bang for the buck. Look at gymnists and wrestlers. Great strength, very lean, good strenght to weight ratio. These guys would look comfortable riding or running. Powerlifting is very specialized.