New touring wheels.

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Wayne T, Feb 7, 2003.

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  1. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to 700c. On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood
    hub because it wont work with a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace. In the front, I was going to
    keep her 20 year old Phil Wood hub since it is in great shape. I was just told that I could get a
    credit of $50 for my current wheel and get a front wheel with a Dura Ace hub and Mavic Open Pro rims
    just like in the back. The cost difference would be and extra $5.00. I'm told that the Dura Ace is a
    lighter hub. That sounds like the best way to go but would appreciate comments pro or con. Thanks.
     
    Tags:


  2. Pete Grey

    Pete Grey Guest

    If you can afford it, stick with the Phil hub for the rear, you can get a 8-9sp Phil freehub. My
    Phil touring hubs are bulletproof (freewheel), in over 20000mi of touring I've never had a
    single problem with them. I've not had nearly the same track record with Shimano hubs for
    regular road riding.

    -pete

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to
    700c.
    > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work
    with
    > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace. In the front, I was going to keep her 20 year old Phil Wood
    > hub since it is in great shape. I was just told that I could get a credit of $50 for my current
    > wheel and get a front
    wheel
    > with a Dura Ace hub and Mavic Open Pro rims just like in the back. The
    cost
    > difference would be and extra $5.00. I'm told that the Dura Ace is a lighter hub. That sounds like
    > the best way to go but would appreciate comments pro or con. Thanks.
     
  3. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to
    700c.
    > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work
    with
    > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace. In the front, I was going to keep her 20 year old Phil Wood
    > hub since it is in great shape. I was just told that I could get a credit of $50 for my current
    > wheel and get a front
    wheel
    > with a Dura Ace hub and Mavic Open Pro rims just like in the back. The
    cost
    > difference would be and extra $5.00. I'm told that the Dura Ace is a lighter hub. That sounds like
    > the best way to go but would appreciate comments pro or con. Thanks.

    Dura-Ace is lighter, but will it be better for your application? What is the rear drop out spacing?
    Will you really be "loaded touring" with these wheels? (Mavic Open Pro may be too light) Please
    describe more of your intended use. What is your shifting requirements? (number of speeds, shifters,
    deraileurs) What width tires will you be using?

    For some samples and ideas on wheels for various applications look at Peter White Cycles... wheels
    page at URL: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp
     
  4. wayne-<< I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work with a cassette, so I am buying
    a Dura Ace.

    Rear dropout spacing on this bike?

    For the money, the best touring hub is Phil...

    For better sealing and if you are 135mm in the rear, an XT is a better idea..but Phil is the best
    BUT if using shimano hubs, have the guy open the hubs, add a bunch of grease and adjust...like ya
    should with any new hubset.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  5. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Pete Grey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > If you can afford it, stick with the Phil hub for the rear, you can get a 8-9sp Phil freehub. My
    > Phil touring hubs are bulletproof (freewheel), in over 20000mi of
    touring
    > I've never had a single problem with them. I've not had nearly the same track record with Shimano
    > hubs for regular
    road
    > riding.

    That is very good to know. Thanks. I will check into the Phil touring hubs to see how much more they
    will cost. Makes me think that I should keep the front Phil Wood hub as well.
    >
    > -pete
    >
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to
    > 700c.
    > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work
    > with
    > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace. In the front, I was going to
    keep
    > > her 20 year old Phil Wood hub since it is in great shape. I was just
    told
    > > that I could get a credit of $50 for my current wheel and get a front
    > wheel
    > > with a Dura Ace hub and Mavic Open Pro rims just like in the back. The
    > cost
    > > difference would be and extra $5.00. I'm told that the Dura Ace is a lighter hub. That sounds
    > > like the best way to go but would appreciate comments pro or con. Thanks.
    > >
    >
     
  6. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "David Ornee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to
    > 700c.
    > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work
    > with
    > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace. In the front, I was going to
    keep
    > > her 20 year old Phil Wood hub since it is in great shape. I was just
    told
    > > that I could get a credit of $50 for my current wheel and get a front
    > wheel
    > > with a Dura Ace hub and Mavic Open Pro rims just like in the back. The
    > cost
    > > difference would be and extra $5.00. I'm told that the Dura Ace is a lighter hub. That sounds
    > > like the best way to go but would appreciate comments pro or con. Thanks.
    >
    > Dura-Ace is lighter, but will it be better for your application? What is the rear drop out
    > spacing?

    Having it spread out from 125 to 135.

    > Will you really be "loaded touring" with these wheels? (Mavic Open Pro
    may
    > be too light)

    Yes, will be doing some loaded touring. My wife only weights 107. Her Mavic's will be 36 hole with
    X-tra lite double butted stainless spokes. I weigh 177 but I just checked and I am getting a Mavic
    520 touring rim 36 hole and regular double butted spokes.

    > Please describe more of your intended use. What is your shifting requirements? (number of speeds,
    > shifters, deraileurs)

    Triple crank, perhaps a 44-32-22. 9 speed rear 12-34.
    > What width tires will you be using?

    700X32c
    >
    > For some samples and ideas on wheels for various applications look at
    Peter
    > White Cycles... wheels page at URL: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp
    >
     
  7. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >I will check into the Phil touring hubs
    >
    > Just remember, they are heavy. (rear)

    How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    > B
     
  8. I C S

    I C S Guest

    "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | >How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    |
    | Chris King 250 Dura-Ace 375 (w/skewers) Phil Wood 511 (Phil is 9spd 130)

    Who cares just how heavy they are? The Phil hubs are simply the most durable hub you'll find. Why
    risk using less?
     
  9. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "I C S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > | >How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    > |
    > | Chris King 250 Dura-Ace 375 (w/skewers) Phil Wood 511 (Phil is 9spd 130)
    >
    > Who cares just how heavy they are? The Phil hubs are simply the most durable hub you'll find. Why
    > risk using less?

    Maybe the FW hubs, but not the cassette hubs, from my experience.

    Robin Hubert
     
  10. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    Thanks. Looks like the Dura-ace is about 4 oz lighter than Phil Wood and that the Chris King is 4 oz
    lighter than Dura Ace. "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]s.cs.com...
    > >How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    >
    > Chris King 250 Dura-Ace 375 (w/skewers) Phil Wood 511 (Phil is 9spd 130)
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    >
    >Thanks. Looks like the Dura-ace is about 4 oz lighter than Phil Wood and that the Chris King is 4
    >oz lighter than Dura Ace. "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> >How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    >>
    >> Chris King 250 Dura-Ace 375 (w/skewers) Phil Wood 511 (Phil is 9spd 130)

    The CK weight is minuse skewer, so add the weight of a skewer when comparing it to the DA weight.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  12. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to 700c. On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood
    > hub because it wont work with a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.

    Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity. It also
    imposes bearing adjustments that need not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.

    It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of front
    wheel drive.

    Chalo Colina
     
  13. Bfd

    Bfd Guest

    Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >
    > >Thanks. Looks like the Dura-ace is about 4 oz lighter than Phil Wood and that the Chris King is 4
    > >oz lighter than Dura Ace. "Belij3" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> >How heavy are they? How much heavier than say a Dura Ace?
    > >>
    > >> Chris King 250 Dura-Ace 375 (w/skewers) Phil Wood 511 (Phil is 9spd 130)
    >
    > The CK weight is minuse skewer, so add the weight of a skewer when comparing it to the DA weight.

    Agree, a more objective view of what hubs accurately weight, e.g., hubs that have been weighted
    versus what mfrs list, can be found at Sheldon Brown's site here:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/weights.htm#cassettehubs
     
  14. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted
    from
    > > freewheel to cassette. Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels
    to 700c.
    > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont
    work with
    > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    >
    > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity. It
    > also imposes bearing adjustments that need not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    >
    > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of
    > front wheel drive.

    Have you had bad experience with DA? Longevity is such a hard thing to judge with changing axle
    widths and the forced retirement of equipment, but I have gotten good service out of DA/Ultegra hubs
    and Phil hubs. With the introduction of field serviceable bearings, some of the burdens of owning
    Phil hubs are now gone. Back in the day, I found that the labyrinth seal on Shimano hubs sealed much
    better than the rubber wiper on the old Phil hubs -- so the Phils stopped being my first choice for
    riding in the rain. I still have a pair of Phil hubs from '74, but they are on their third (or more)
    set of bearings. When the bearings go this time, so go the hubs. Phil gave up his life-time warranty
    and now charges to replace worn-out cartridge bearings. This policy reversal pisses me off since I
    bought into the whole "life time warranty" thing. Hey, I haven't died, I just ride like I have. --
    Jay Beattie.
     
  15. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted from freewheel to cassette.
    > > Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels to
    700c.
    > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont work
    with
    > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    >
    > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity. It
    > also imposes bearing adjustments that need not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    >
    > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of
    > front wheel drive.

    Do you still think this even thought the Phil hub is 23 years old?

    >
    > Chalo Colina
     
  16. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted
    > from
    > > > freewheel to cassette. Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels
    > to 700c.
    > > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont
    > work with
    > > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    > >
    > > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity. It
    > > also imposes bearing adjustments that need not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    > >
    > > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of
    > > front wheel drive.
    >
    > Have you had bad experience with DA? Longevity is such a hard thing to judge with changing axle
    > widths and the forced retirement of equipment, but I have gotten good service out of DA/Ultegra
    > hubs and Phil hubs. With the introduction of field serviceable bearings, some of the burdens of
    > owning Phil hubs are now gone. Back in the day, I found that the labyrinth seal on Shimano hubs
    > sealed much better than the rubber wiper on the old Phil hubs -- so the Phils stopped being my
    > first choice for riding in the rain.

    Then you are saying that you prefer Dura Ace hubs for riding in the rain over the Phil hubs? Sounds
    like you don't buy the statement that trading in a phil hubed wheel for a Dura Ace is a big mistake.
    Anyone else have any feelings on this?

    The Phil Wood hubs on my wife's bike are about 23 years old and seem to spin like new. However, I
    wonder if I may be pushing it by sticking with them instead of replacing with the Dura Ace hub. Her
    Phil Wood bottom bracket spins real well but the frame builder told me that it is dry and need
    servicing, which he believes he can do. The Phil Wood bottom bracket on my bike turns rough. It is
    about 25 years old.

    I still have a pair of Phil hubs from '74, but they
    > are on their third (or more) set of bearings. When the bearings go this time, so go the hubs. Phil
    > gave up his life-time warranty and now charges to replace worn-out cartridge bearings. This policy
    > reversal pisses me off since I bought into the whole "life time warranty" thing. Hey, I haven't
    > died, I just ride like I have. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  17. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike converted
    > > from
    > > > > freewheel to cassette. Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels
    > > to 700c.
    > > > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont
    > > work with
    > > > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    > > >
    > > > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity. It
    > > > also imposes bearing adjustments that need not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    > > >
    > > > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of
    > > > front wheel drive.
    > >
    > > Have you had bad experience with DA? Longevity is such a hard thing to judge with changing axle
    > > widths and the forced retirement of equipment, but I have gotten good service out of DA/Ultegra
    > > hubs and Phil hubs. With the introduction of field serviceable bearings, some of the burdens of
    > > owning Phil hubs are now gone. Back in the day, I found that the labyrinth seal on Shimano hubs
    > > sealed much better than the rubber wiper on the old Phil hubs -- so the Phils stopped being my
    > > first choice for riding in the rain.
    >
    > Then you are saying that you prefer Dura Ace hubs for riding in the rain over the Phil hubs?
    > Sounds like you don't buy the statement that trading
    in
    > a phil hubed wheel for a Dura Ace is a big mistake. Anyone else have any feelings on this?
    >
    > The Phil Wood hubs on my wife's bike are about 23 years old and seem to
    spin
    > like new. However, I wonder if I may be pushing it by sticking with them instead of replacing with
    > the Dura Ace hub. Her Phil Wood bottom bracket spins real well but the frame builder told me that
    > it is dry and need servicing, which he believes he can do. The Phil Wood bottom bracket on
    my
    > bike turns rough. It is about 25 years old.

    Like JB says, age means nothing to mechanical things. It's use that matters, the amount and type of
    use to be specific. "I've got 500 year old hubs and they're in perfect shape" means nothing.

    >
    > I still have a pair of Phil hubs from '74, but they
    > > are on their third (or more) set of bearings. When the bearings go this time, so go the hubs.
    > > Phil gave up his life-time warranty and now charges to replace worn-out cartridge bearings. This
    > > policy reversal pisses me off since I bought into the whole "life time warranty" thing. Hey, I
    > > haven't died, I just ride like I have. -- Jay Beattie.
    > >

    Robin Hubert
     
  18. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike
    converted
    > > from
    > > > > freewheel to cassette. Also, I am converting my wife's 27"
    wheels
    > > to 700c.
    > > > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it
    wont
    > > work with
    > > > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    > > >
    > > > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down
    in
    > > > quality and longevity. It also imposes bearing adjustments that
    need
    > > > not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    > > >
    > > > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea of
    > > > front wheel drive.
    > >
    > > Have you had bad experience with DA? Longevity is such a hard thing
    to
    > > judge with changing axle widths and the forced retirement of
    equipment,
    > > but I have gotten good service out of DA/Ultegra hubs and Phil hubs. With the introduction of
    > > field serviceable bearings, some of the
    burdens
    > > of owning Phil hubs are now gone. Back in the day, I found that the labyrinth seal on Shimano
    > > hubs sealed much better than the rubber
    wiper
    > > on the old Phil hubs -- so the Phils stopped being my first choice
    for
    > > riding in the rain.
    >
    > Then you are saying that you prefer Dura Ace hubs for riding in the
    rain
    > over the Phil hubs? Sounds like you don't buy the statement that
    trading in
    > a phil hubed wheel for a Dura Ace is a big mistake. Anyone else have
    any
    > feelings on this?

    I think Phil still uses the same cartridge bearings with the same wiper seals. 30 years ago, these
    were way better than Campy NR, which had dust caps that were useless against water. The Phil hubs
    also had stronger axles and more configurations (flange heighth, hole count, etc.) than Campy -- and
    they were cheaper than Campy. With the advent of the cassette hub, however, bent axles became less
    of a problem, and the seals on the Shimano hubs solved a lot of he water intrusion problems, and
    Shimano hubs were inexpensive. Phil hubs are still great hubs: you do not have to adjust them; they
    are beautiful and you never have to worry about destroying a bearing race or cone because you can
    just pop in a new cartridge bearing. If you are a person who destroys bearing races and needs a
    really strong axle, you should consider the Phil. This may explain why Bluto likes them so much (he
    is a big rider). Most people, however, would be fine with Ultegra or Dura Ace hubs. As far as
    trading in, I would not buy the Phil cassette hub unless I was feeling particularly rich. I would
    not scew around with freewheels. I am through with freewheels. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  19. Wayne T wrote:
    >
    > "David Ornee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > Dura-Ace is lighter, but will it be better for your application? What is the rear drop out
    > > spacing?
    >
    > Having it spread out from 125 to 135.

    If you are going to 135 mm just forget the road hubs and buy MTB hubs since they are "ready" for 135
    mm right off the shelf and have little rubber booties built in. XTR is great quality and XT or LX
    are nice enough and will probably pass just fine for touring duty too.

    > > Will you really be "loaded touring" with these wheels? (Mavic Open Pro may be too light)
    >
    > Yes, will be doing some loaded touring. My wife only weights 107. Her Mavic's will be 36 hole with
    > X-tra lite double butted stainless spokes. I weigh 177 but I just checked and I am getting a Mavic
    > 520 touring rim 36 hole and regular double butted spokes.

    520's should be fine. Don't worry about weight for a touring bike. Get something you think will be
    reliable. You don't want to mess with the bike when you are trying to breathe the air and see the
    sites. Personally, I wouldn't feel bad or worry about LX quality when it comes to reliability. But
    if you have the cash, there's not much reason to hold back from buying top-of-the-line.

    Bontrager Fairlanes are available @ 36h/700c (from Rivendell), but have only single eyelets, IIRC.
    The rear Fairlane is OCR, which I think is an idea that makes sense if it can be well implemented.
    The Fairlane's single eyelets probably isn't a huge deal in practice because they have a lot of
    aluminum. The 520 rear is not OCR and I think it is anodized; anodizing is a dubious concept --
    Mavic claims it prevents corrosion, but I think it probably causes at least as many problems as it
    allegedly solves (Al forms a thin protective oxide layer all by itself anyway). I do believe the 520
    has double eyelets, which is good. Maybe you can find the 519 rim (for some reason I feel like I
    remember that the 519 was not anodized).

    > > Please describe more of your intended use. What is your shifting requirements? (number of
    > > speeds, shifters, deraileurs)
    >
    > Triple crank, perhaps a 44-32-22. 9 speed rear 12-34.
    > > What width tires will you be using?
    >
    > 700X32c

    Sounds fine. The Pasela is available in 35c too, I think.
     
  20. Wayne T

    Wayne T Guest

    "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:An%[email protected]...
    >
    > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > As I mentioned earlier, I am having my wife's and my bike
    converted
    > > > from
    > > > > > freewheel to cassette. Also, I am converting my wife's 27" wheels
    > > > to 700c.
    > > > > > On the back, I can't use her current Phil Wood hub because it wont
    > > > work with
    > > > > > a cassette, so I am buying a Dura Ace.
    > > > >
    > > > > Going from a Phil hub to a Dura Ace cassette is a _big_ step down in quality and longevity.
    > > > > It also imposes bearing adjustments that
    need
    > > > > not be performed on the Phil hub. Bad idea.
    > > > >
    > > > > It's like getting rid of your wife's Bentley in favor of an Acura because you like the idea
    > > > > of front wheel drive.
    > > >
    > > > Have you had bad experience with DA? Longevity is such a hard thing
    to
    > > > judge with changing axle widths and the forced retirement of
    equipment,
    > > > but I have gotten good service out of DA/Ultegra hubs and Phil hubs. With the introduction of
    > > > field serviceable bearings, some of the
    burdens
    > > > of owning Phil hubs are now gone. Back in the day, I found that the labyrinth seal on Shimano
    > > > hubs sealed much better than the rubber
    wiper
    > > > on the old Phil hubs -- so the Phils stopped being my first choice for riding in the rain.
    > >
    > > Then you are saying that you prefer Dura Ace hubs for riding in the rain over the Phil hubs?
    > > Sounds like you don't buy the statement that
    trading
    > in
    > > a phil hubed wheel for a Dura Ace is a big mistake. Anyone else have
    any
    > > feelings on this?
    > >
    > > The Phil Wood hubs on my wife's bike are about 23 years old and seem to
    > spin
    > > like new. However, I wonder if I may be pushing it by sticking with
    them
    > > instead of replacing with the Dura Ace hub. Her Phil Wood bottom
    bracket
    > > spins real well but the frame builder told me that it is dry and need servicing, which he
    > > believes he can do. The Phil Wood bottom bracket on
    > my
    > > bike turns rough. It is about 25 years old.
    >
    > Like JB says, age means nothing to mechanical things. It's use that matters, the amount and type
    > of use to be specific. "I've got 500 year
    old
    > hubs and they're in perfect shape" means nothing.

    Very good point. Actually, we didn't put on as many miles as some of our friends and layed off
    biking for a while because when our son got too big to ride on the back, he never cared that
    much for biking. Also, some of that time carting our son around was on the back of a custom
    built Sterling tandem. However, it appears that the sealed PWs held up much better than my
    Campy's since they are not sealed. Of course, it is only a matter of stripping them down and
    relubing and replacing bearings to bring them back up to snuff. Had a friend who never had his
    Campy hubs torn apart because he felt that a bike shop could not get the adjustment up to the
    factory specs so he would periodically pump in lube until the excess coming out of the port was
    no longer dirty but clear.
    >
    > >
    > > I still have a pair of Phil hubs from '74, but they
    > > > are on their third (or more) set of bearings. When the bearings go
    this
    > > > time, so go the hubs. Phil gave up his life-time warranty and now charges to replace worn-out
    > > > cartridge bearings. This policy reversal pisses me off since I bought into the whole "life
    > > > time warranty"
    thing.
    > > > Hey, I haven't died, I just ride like I have. -- Jay Beattie.
    > > >
    >
    >
    > Robin Hubert
     
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