new tubulars

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by bpatterson, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. bpatterson

    bpatterson New Member

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    [FONT=&quot]I'm about to get my new bike it has reynolds MV32UL tubulars these will be my first tubulars
    What are the big diffrences to clinchers as far as training ... do I need to always carry a extra tire ... should I glue my own tires or should just drop it off at the shop? any othe nuances of tubulars that you could provide are appreciated
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  2. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Learn to glue. It's a necessary skill. Part of that skill is being able to recognize a properly glued tire, and more importantly, to recognize when a tire isn't properly glued.

    Spares. Carry a spare tubie that's been pre-glued. About the only thing Tufos are good for is work as spares, so I'd look there, maybe at an S33. You may also choose to carry a latex sealant, like Vittoria PitStop, but know that such sealants don't always work. Also they typically ruin a tube for repair.

    Another important skill is being able to repair your own tubies. It saves money, and allows you to get a lot of life out of tires. If you've got an LBS that glues tubies, I'd have them introduce you to the process. If not, let Google be your friend. There are lots of good online resources (Search "Jobst Brandt").

    As for any differences you may or may not see, those depend on you and your perception. Some folks make all sorts of wild claims about the nirvana-like ride of tubies, while others say they can't feel a difference between clinchers and tubies. As always, proper inflation is key. You can run tubies at a lower pressure than clinchers, and tubies are nearly immune to pinch flats.

    Good luck, and welcome to the dark side.
     
  3. Feltski

    Feltski New Member

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    Ive only done one ride on tubulars and honestly couldnt really feel the difference. I prefer clinchers simply because I know how to change them fast. I know there are a good bunch of pro triathletes, including Chrissie Wellington that rides clinchers for that same reason. Id definately learn to change them on your own. Even at $1/min for labor at the LBS, somthing as small as changing tires can get pricey
     
  4. bpatterson

    bpatterson New Member

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    Thanks.... how long can you ride a flat tubular
     
  5. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    How much do you like your rims?

    I remember a notable Coors Classic stage headed in the New Paltz NY when John Tomac rode a flat tubie down the hairpin descent through the gunks and on into town to stay with the break. That's gutsy ridin'

    I mostly ride clinchers these days but raced and trained on sew ups for years. Older patched tires (get good with a speedy awl) became pre-glued spares, you learn quickly how to fold then nicely to strap under the seat and on all day rides I'd often carry two spares but in fairness never needed the second one.

    Get someone to teach you how to glue and mount the tires or expect to learn the hard way and also learn how to clean any glue slop off the braking surfaces of the rim...

    -Dave
     
  6. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    BEFORE you hit the road with your new tubular wheels, the first thing you need to know before you try to glue your new tubulars is that you should try to DRY mount them on the rims, first. When you do, you might utter an expletive or curse the shop from whom you bought the tires because you will swear you were sold 650c tires ...

    In other words, you will need to pre-stretch the tires if you want to glue them on successfully without looking as though you missed arts-and-crafts in kindergarten ...

    THAT means that you (normally) need an extra set of rims ... 700c clincher rims are 'okay' for pre-stretching if you don't have a spare set of tubular rims.

    It also means that if you choose to do training rides with tubular wheels that your SPARE needs to be pre-stretched, too!
    A "flat" sew-up tire is repaired "at home" and not on the road.
    FWIW. If you are using a NEW, pre-stretched tire as the spare, I don't think you need to pre-glue it ... that's only 'my' opinion ... over time, you may learn how much/little glue you feel comfortable with using to glue up your tires -- compared with almost everyone else, I am a minimalist with regard to how much glue I use ... but, I'm NOT racing; and, if I were, I would certainly use more glue than I do.

    The second thing you need to know is that "fat" sew-ups (about 700x24-25 equivalent) like the ones I started on are now available, again -- you don't have to riding Paris-Roubaix to appreciate the ride quality the larger tire provides.

    As far as whether or not YOU should glue them up, yourself ... I would say that unless you are a sponsored rider with a team mechanic, then you should LEARN to glue them up yourself ... the option of dropping your wheel(s) off with someone and then waiting for him/her to have the time to take care of YOUR wheel(s) would become rather tedious after a while unless you have several sets of wheels.

    Another thing you need to know about sew-ups is that the amount of tread is minimal when compared with most-if-not-all clincher tires ... the mileage you get will be abbreviated when compared with the mileage you have been getting with your clinchers.

    I don't think there is an all-weather sew-up, so while you will generally have better traction with a sew-up than with a clincher when dealing with dry road conditions, your sew-ups will probably not be as good as a clincher whose compound is formulated for wet road conditions.

    Also, because a sew-up has a thinner tread, the tire will be more vulnerable to any road hazards which you might encounter on a wet road.

    BTW. There is a reason that there is more than one type/grade of clincher tire ... the so-called "training" clinchers will weigh more but yield a higher mileage than the clincher tires which cost 4x as much. I reckon a "training" sew-up may-or-may-not last as long as high end clincher.

    Some people ride their tubulars all the time (I used to be one of them) ... but, I think it is an expensive proposition that fewer people can to justify since many clinchers ride almost as well (some say, equally well), now -- so, for most people I think that sew-ups should probably be considered a luxury item for regular riding.

    As far as I know, most pro teams actually train on standard 32x3 wheels ... clincher wheels.

    I would suggest that if you are a(n aspiring) racer, but aren't sponsored, then you may want to save the sew-ups + high-zoot tubular wheels for race day unless you have unlimited disposable income to devote to tires-and-wheels.

    FYI. Tubulars which have latex tubes do NOT like CO2 cartridges ... but, even if your tubulars have "regular" butyl rubber inner tubes, you should probably get in the habit of carrying a (frame) pump that can exceed 100 PSI (vs. a shorty, MTB pump which usually can only go up to about 65 PSI).
     
  7. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    The ONLY advantage to a clincher is that you can repair them on the road. With a tubie, gotta change them(altho they can be repaired, just not on the road-really).

    Pre-glue a spare and carry it. I also carry a small metal tire iron to get under a flat to get it off.

    With a can of glue and a little solvent brush(available at any decent hardware store), gluing a tubie on is easy. LIGHT coat-Glue tubie, glue rim, glue tubie, glue rim, glue tubie....when glue is not sticky/tacky on tire, another layer on the rim, mount tire, center(why you mount with slightly wet glue on rim), air, wait 24 hours and ride. Light coats. Just paint the glue on the base tape and rim channel.

    'Assuming' the shop knows how to glue tubies, ask, then show up when they glue yours the first time with some beverage the wrench likes, watch, ask questions..pay for the service, then do your own.

    Pre stretching a tubie on a rim is essential, particularly for Contis, not so much for cotton tires like Vittoia, Veloflex, Clement, Challlenge.

    Remember the advantages of tubulars. More comfy-no need to use anything more than about 100 psi. Will not come off the rim if flatted. Corner well, like a radial tire on a car. More flexible sidewalls, rounder.

    'May' be lighter, but not an advantage that makes any difference.

    Like clinchers, there are lower end, training' tubulars. More tread, machine made, not as light, butyl tube. Same 'tubular' ride but cheaper, just like clinchers.

    I ride tubies all the time. I see no compelling reason to change to clinchers. All things being equal, tubies will flat less since a pinch flat is 'almost' impossible.
     
  8. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    I will never understand why triathletes use tubulars unless that's the wheels they choose to ride...since they have to change their own tires in a race(no neutral support).
     
  9. slowbutnotdead

    slowbutnotdead New Member

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    as for pre stretching the tire, I always keep my old tubular rims to stretch the tires. You may be able to get some old used rims at the LBS for this purpose.
     
  10. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    AND, you can use an old clincher rim as well.
     
  11. ranger11a

    ranger11a New Member

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    I am interested in how much money those with tubulars actually spend maintaining their tubulars and wheels. I see a lot of comments about having a bottomless budget to support these wheels.
     
  12. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    There certainly is no bottomless budget. Tubulars require glue or tape to adhere to the rim. If you flat, you have to decide whether you want to throw tire out, have someone else repair it, or repair it yourself. Repairing it by yourself just requires a largish sewing needle, a thimble, the appropriate thread, glue, patch kit.....and that's about it. Some folks put flat-preventing solutions in the tires while some don't. You do generally need to carry a second, pre-glued tire with you on rides if you encounter a flat. That's it. It's up to the individual to determine whether they want to mess with tubulars or not. I don't think it's a pain at all.
     
  13. ranger11a

    ranger11a New Member

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    Makes sense. I have a set of Enve 35mm Carbon tubular wheels (with the G3 powertap) and chose these over clinchers purely for the weight savings (around 400 grams). Reading makes me question if the weight savings will be worth it. Anxious to buy a good set of tubular tires now to see for myself what all the fuss is about. Thanks for the response.
     
  14. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    I think whether using tubular wheels is worth it or not is really going to depend on where you ride. If roads you pedal are pretty clean of glass and other sharp, tire assaulting detritus, tubular wheels can be practical (using my judgement of what is practical....your judgement may very). We've had people in this forum and in others in the internet tubes who've gone a very long time without flatting. I've had mixed luck using tubulars here, in Tucson. Typically I'd puncture at tubular on the order of once every month or two. My worst experience was a period of almost two weeks over which I flatted tubulars 4 times and clinchers 6 times (it was the monsoon season, and the monsoons wash a lot of nasty crap onto the roads, roads which are also blessed with abundant broken glass). Frankly, the only thing that really killed my tubular wheel buzz was the price of tubular tires. You might want to PM [email protected] He's an ace wheel builder on this forum and he rides tubulars as every day wheels since shortly after the Big Bang. If I were you, I'd seriously consider selling your Enve wheels and using the money gained to buy one of the new generation carbon fiber clinchers. Many people are using the Zipp 404 Firecrest clinchers, Enve's System clinchers or or 45 clinchers, Reynolds clinchers, and others as every day wheels. The latest generation of CF wheels is very strong compared to CF wheels just a few years old. The CF wheel tech is advancing über quickly. I would also consider, iffin' I were you, the benefit of having wide rims, i.e. rims that are in the ballpark of 23mm wide. Frankly, the only thing that really killed my tubular wheel buzz was the price of tubular tires. Sure you can cheap ones, but like Confucius said, you get what you pay for. As for gluing tires, I found the process kind of zen. With beer on the work bench and tasty tunes coming out of the laptop, gluing tires smoothed the wrinkles in my che.
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I will never understand why triathletes use tubulars unless that's the wheels they choose to ride...since they have to change their own tires in a race(no neutral support).

    Time required to dismount-change out-get rolling again?

    Pulling the old sew-up off and slapping a new one on is faster than popping a bead and pulling out the old tube and installing a new one.

    If you watch your cornering (can tri-guys corner?...see 48 Hours...coming up next!) riding a sew-up without glue is no big deal. That should make heads explode.
     
  16. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of some tri-guys riding totally unglued tubulars, but that's dumb. On the other hand, a well-inflated spare with ample old glue on tire and rim should get you to the finish line in fine form. That's what racers used to do before support vehicles were allowed, carrying their spares in a figure-8 over their backs or in a sock hanging under the saddle from a toe strap.

    The only disadvantage to tubulars I can think of is when you're the only one on the course using them, and your spare goes flat.
     
  17. vspa

    vspa Active Member

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    and it is what people used to do while training, to fix a flat tire it was ok to mount the replacement tubular without fresh glue,
     
  18. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    When I raced, all we had in 700c was tubulars, so we learned to deal with it. One of my buddies laced up a set of 27" clinchers for winter training, but he rode a Gitane Tour de France, so they fit.

    Those of us who had steady jobs could train on Clement 50s, but for the rest of us . . . the stories I could tell of $9.00 "trainers."
     
  19. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of some tri-guys riding totally unglued tubulars, but that's dumb.

    When out training, it was just slap on a spare sew-up, pump it up solid and make sure it was centered and...ride on. In all the years I got home on an un-glued tire (and the many times my buddies did likewise), no tire was ever rolled. That was back when 30 strokes from a Silca actually got a tire up to riding pressure.

    During crits...different story. We stopped using glue and went to GM Fas-Tac...the stuff body side molding was glued onto cars with. It was a pain to get a tire back off...sometimes leaving the base tape on the rim, but at least you could push the tire on a hot summer day with tons of braking without finding your skin grinding quickly away on the road as you tried to figure out why the rim was bare.

    All you had to do to get home safely with an un-glued tire was NOT bomb corners like an idjut.

    and it is what people used to do while training, to fix a flat tire it was ok to mount the replacement tubular without fresh glue,

    Precisely! And if a training partner was on clinchers and without a spare tube or parch kit...no worries. Slap a sew-up on the clincher rim, pump it up and ride it home.

    Those of us who had steady jobs could train on Clement 50s, but for the rest of us . . . the stories I could tell of $9.00 "trainers."

    Peach it, reverend! Clement 50's and whatever cheap assed crap the local shops or Nashbar was running on sale! I STILL have a closet full of the Thailand Clements that The Yellow Jersey sells in bulk!

    Eh...the days of being a broke college student and weekend racer. Trying to come up with enough cash for the entry fee and gas to the race 200 miles away! Can you say...yeah, we got damned good at repairing punctures!

    Panaracers, with that crappy nylon or polyester casing that cut itself just looking at it, was about the only cheappie I refused to run. Oh, the days of crappy Wolbers that broke the casing threads and...wobbled...Woblers!

    Conti Sprinter 250's that sold for $20 on sale? I made the mistake of buying ten...and burning thru them in about as many rides! Did the Germans invent a secret sharp rock magnet?

    Long live Clement Criterium Seta Extras! And may your hands ever be stained with red Tubasti!
     
  20. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    THREE for $50!

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html

    A pair and a spare!

    I'm not affiliated with the YJ, but have had good dealings with them for years!

    Under $17/tire for some fun in the sun. Not a bad inflation rate considering we were paying $10/tire 40 years ago for cheap trainers. Not bad at all.

    I still run these Thai wonders. Sometimes they pop at 200 miles and sometimes the cord is showing when they hit the trash. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances! They used to have a bulk buy deal...still might, if you ask.
     
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