Hello everyone ! Well I'm new to riding, I use my bike to commute in the city of Miami, Fl. So I just purchased a used frame. It's a specialized epic carbon, I believe it's a 1993-1994. I got it for $120 with brakes, sprocket and cassette, obviously i need handlebars and a seat. My question is what kind of wheels/tires should I run. Miami has alot of bad roads and worse drivers. I stay to the sidewalk alot of the time (current bike is just a schwinn mb given to me by a friend) and want to run the widest wheels/tires possible to handle the shock and bumps better. When I went to pick up the frame the owner had a set of roadracing wheels on it (just to show it) I noticed the tire said 29-in on it. The frame seems to taper by the rear wheel and it looked as though I have very little additional space to accomodate wider wheels/tires. would i need a smaller diameter to accomplish this ? The height was perfect for me with the 29 in. Btw I'm 5ft11 about 150lbs. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as i cannot afford to buy wheels and tires that may not fit, thank you for any advice.
Newbie needs help with tire/wheel sizing....please help !
- Thread starter Robb1821i
- Start date
Specialized has used the name "Epic" for both road bikes and MTBs, and they've used carbon in both. Hard to know what it is that you have bought.
But at a guess I say it sounds like a road bike, considering your comment about the rear triangle.
Post a pic perhaps?
Has it got suspension? Disc brake tabs?
The silly MTB size 29er is the same rim size as road 28" AKA 700C AKA 622 mm, but usually a bit stronger. If the tire said 29er, then the wheel is of this size. If there were rim brakes fitted and they mated right up to the wheel, then that's the wheels needed for this frame/fork.
A 29er/28"/700C/622 mm rim with a narrow tire will have pretty much the same outside diameter as a 26" with a wide tire, so such a wheel will usually slot right into a 26" frame/fork.
If you're using rim brakes you're pretty much stuck with the wheel size that the frame was originally designed for. There are workarounds, but they usually require some fabricating skills.
How were you able to determine that the height was perfect w/o a saddle on?
These days in particular, the critical number is usually reach, not height. You can get just about any height from any bike with the appropriate seat post, but the reach from saddle to handlebars is a lot less adjustable. And as even road bikes tend to have some slope to their top tubes nowadays, standover height isn't as good an indicator as it once was.
If you have any bike riding friends/neighbours I suggest you bring your bike over, ask to borrow a wheel, and pop it in. That's probably the easiest way to confirm which size wheel will line up (assuming rim brakes), and it'll also give you a decent hint of how wide tires you can use.
You may want to check up on your local laws and ordinances. Riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is often prohibited.
All in all, I think you've been had. You're gonna need to sink a lot more money than your initial $120 into this bike before it'll be rideable. If the bars are missing, then I assume that the shifters/brake levers are gone too. And what about derailers?
But at a guess I say it sounds like a road bike, considering your comment about the rear triangle.
Post a pic perhaps?
Has it got suspension? Disc brake tabs?
The silly MTB size 29er is the same rim size as road 28" AKA 700C AKA 622 mm, but usually a bit stronger. If the tire said 29er, then the wheel is of this size. If there were rim brakes fitted and they mated right up to the wheel, then that's the wheels needed for this frame/fork.
A 29er/28"/700C/622 mm rim with a narrow tire will have pretty much the same outside diameter as a 26" with a wide tire, so such a wheel will usually slot right into a 26" frame/fork.
If you're using rim brakes you're pretty much stuck with the wheel size that the frame was originally designed for. There are workarounds, but they usually require some fabricating skills.
How were you able to determine that the height was perfect w/o a saddle on?
These days in particular, the critical number is usually reach, not height. You can get just about any height from any bike with the appropriate seat post, but the reach from saddle to handlebars is a lot less adjustable. And as even road bikes tend to have some slope to their top tubes nowadays, standover height isn't as good an indicator as it once was.
If you have any bike riding friends/neighbours I suggest you bring your bike over, ask to borrow a wheel, and pop it in. That's probably the easiest way to confirm which size wheel will line up (assuming rim brakes), and it'll also give you a decent hint of how wide tires you can use.
You may want to check up on your local laws and ordinances. Riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is often prohibited.
All in all, I think you've been had. You're gonna need to sink a lot more money than your initial $120 into this bike before it'll be rideable. If the bars are missing, then I assume that the shifters/brake levers are gone too. And what about derailers?
First off thank you for your advice thus far. It is a road bike, no suspension and normal brakes. It actually has shimano derailers and brakes already mounted, in brand new condition. The wheels and tires he had on it were excessively skinny, I believe he will give me a good price on the wheels, I think the were shimano wheels but I'm not positive. In my opinion they look like I'd bend them if I accidentally hit a pothole. Am I just being paranoid ? Again, I have never had a bicycle this nice-or as the cyclists seem to call it, a "real" bike. I've only had off the shelf from target or walmart. I'm VERY anxious to get this bike on the road but I want to do it right. I'm an automotive tech and as such have access to tools and a very good mechanical knowledge (I've assembled a couple bikes from scratch now, no issues) would maybe a 700 with a wider tire work ? I will post some pics tonight.
Trouble is, the more a road bike is considered a "real" bike, or a "nice bike", the higher the odds that it'll only take real skinny tires.
As for wheels, at your weight you don't have much to worry about. But if you want better odds, count the spokes. 32 spoke for you should be bulletproof. 24-28 should be pretty much OK too.
But hit a pothole hard enough, and the impact will smash right through the tire and into the rim, maybe hard enough to destroy it - regardless of spoke count.
At that vintage, the bike is probably intended to be used with brifters(brakes + shifters in the same handles). That'll require some study on your part. Shifters+derailers+cassette(the sprocket stack at the rear) require a 3-way fit to work as intended.
As for wheels, at your weight you don't have much to worry about. But if you want better odds, count the spokes. 32 spoke for you should be bulletproof. 24-28 should be pretty much OK too.
But hit a pothole hard enough, and the impact will smash right through the tire and into the rim, maybe hard enough to destroy it - regardless of spoke count.
At that vintage, the bike is probably intended to be used with brifters(brakes + shifters in the same handles). That'll require some study on your part. Shifters+derailers+cassette(the sprocket stack at the rear) require a 3-way fit to work as intended.
I realized that with the wheels I probably wouldn't have much problem due to my body weight. I may be ordering some soon. Should I get something made for a heavier rider than myself ? Would this decrease the odds of damage even more ? Also, I talked to specialized today, they informed me I could run a 700 whell with a 28, maybe even a little higher width.
Your absolutely right about the shifters. The previous owner showed me them, they were very different from what I've seen. Is there a known method for converting them ? Or am I basically on my own ? I'm very good with 'engineering' things, however it would make it much easier if I knew the main differences between the two. My assumption is that the main issue would be the routing of the cables. Any suggestions ?
Your absolutely right about the shifters. The previous owner showed me them, they were very different from what I've seen. Is there a known method for converting them ? Or am I basically on my own ? I'm very good with 'engineering' things, however it would make it much easier if I knew the main differences between the two. My assumption is that the main issue would be the routing of the cables. Any suggestions ?
Regarding wheels, if you hit a curb/pothole hard enough to fully compress the tire, you will damage the rim, end of story. The overall strength of the wheel won't help you there, as it's a localized damage. A higher spoke count will basically only make the wheel stronger as long as the tire isn't bottoming out.
(This is a simplification. IRL you can hit hard, damage the tube/tire but the rim stays OK. Or you hit hard enough to get a low spot, but the wheel remains rideable, or you hit hard enough to total the wheel. But I hope you see what I'm getting at. A stronger wheel won't help with scenario 1 or 2, but it may prevent #3 from happening.)
It's like with cars. If you have someone coming in again and again with damage from curbs/potholes, you don't tell him to get stronger rims, you tell him to drive more carefully, or to get rid of those low profile tires.
To get the full benefit of stronger wheels, the "load capacity" of the tire should match the strength of the wheel. On bad roads your benefit may not be that great, your biggest enemy may still be snakebite flats or denting low spots into the rim.
Whether you should get beefed up wheels or not is a so-so issue. Outside a race setting, there's really not a lot of penalty for going with higher spoke counts, so you might as well do it.
Well built wheels should last a long, long time, but should you pop a spoke, a high count wheel is a lot more forgiving than low count wheel. With 32/36 spokes, it's usually entirely possible to keep riding. Pop a spoke on a 24 count and you may well be stranded.
I like fewer spokes in the front, front wheels with a radial lace, heads-in, and rear wheels with thinner gauge spokes on the non-drive side.
Regarding the shifters, I have no idea what you mean by "converting them". What type did he show you, and what type do you want?
(This is a simplification. IRL you can hit hard, damage the tube/tire but the rim stays OK. Or you hit hard enough to get a low spot, but the wheel remains rideable, or you hit hard enough to total the wheel. But I hope you see what I'm getting at. A stronger wheel won't help with scenario 1 or 2, but it may prevent #3 from happening.)
It's like with cars. If you have someone coming in again and again with damage from curbs/potholes, you don't tell him to get stronger rims, you tell him to drive more carefully, or to get rid of those low profile tires.
To get the full benefit of stronger wheels, the "load capacity" of the tire should match the strength of the wheel. On bad roads your benefit may not be that great, your biggest enemy may still be snakebite flats or denting low spots into the rim.
Whether you should get beefed up wheels or not is a so-so issue. Outside a race setting, there's really not a lot of penalty for going with higher spoke counts, so you might as well do it.
Well built wheels should last a long, long time, but should you pop a spoke, a high count wheel is a lot more forgiving than low count wheel. With 32/36 spokes, it's usually entirely possible to keep riding. Pop a spoke on a 24 count and you may well be stranded.
I like fewer spokes in the front, front wheels with a radial lace, heads-in, and rear wheels with thinner gauge spokes on the non-drive side.
Regarding the shifters, I have no idea what you mean by "converting them". What type did he show you, and what type do you want?
First off, thank you for your advice regarding the wheels. Now I'm confident I can run nice skinny wheels without the worry of breaking them. I guess, due to my lack of experience I just look at them and think they'll break. I still have some searching but at least I know what to look for. Is Mavik a reputable company, they seem to be the lowest price and still use quality materials.
As for the shifters, he showed me a pair of Shimano shifters, which I've research and found they're called 'brifters'. Since I'm going to be running a straight bar (MTB style or perhaps one with a very slight rise) these shifters won't be applicable to me. Besides that (and maybe this is just my ignorance speaking) they seem a bit over-complicated for my use. I'd love to run some under the bar, rapid fire type shifters, but I'm told they won't work due to the 'indexing' difference between MTB and roadbikes. My next choice was going to be downtube style, these look like they'll be very easy to set up and I must admit that I love the vintage appeal.
BTW, I put a picture of the bike frame in my profile.
As for the shifters, he showed me a pair of Shimano shifters, which I've research and found they're called 'brifters'. Since I'm going to be running a straight bar (MTB style or perhaps one with a very slight rise) these shifters won't be applicable to me. Besides that (and maybe this is just my ignorance speaking) they seem a bit over-complicated for my use. I'd love to run some under the bar, rapid fire type shifters, but I'm told they won't work due to the 'indexing' difference between MTB and roadbikes. My next choice was going to be downtube style, these look like they'll be very easy to set up and I must admit that I love the vintage appeal.
BTW, I put a picture of the bike frame in my profile.
Again, you're looking at a 3-way match between cassette, shifter and derailer.
If you stay within the Shimano family, most rear shifters are compatible with most derailers as long as the number of sprockets match the number of speeds in the shifter. There are some exceptions though.
Your biggest hurdle will be that road front derailers have another actuation ration than MTB shifters. And MTB derailers tend to be a bit unhappy having to deal with the bigger chainwheels used on road bikes. They may also have the cable pull in another orientation.
If you were to get a MTB brake/shifter combo, then it's probably intended for v-brakes, which also have another actuation ratio than "road" caliper brakes.
The easy and elegant approach is to buy flat bar road shifters/levers http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp;jsessionid=QPzlTpGW229tPHRQQv7mrQSnlJHsvxNtTHDMm55spytfVqJvrGjx!-1786427113?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051115&bmUID=jbZOmqC
With a nice frame, this'd be my option.
Or you can get a right rapidfire unit for the rear shifting, a left thumb/friction shifter for the front, and some appropriate flat bar canti/caliper brake levers.
Here's a link that may be helpful:http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946
Even if Miami is decently flat, I still wouldn't go for downtube shifters.
In my book, shifting is GOOD, and should be made easy. With DTs, I'm a lot more likely to stubborn it out rather than shift, which my knees don't appreciate at all.
Granted, drop bars may be a bit of an acquired taste, and if you've decided you don't want that - good for you. You should have the bike the way you want it. But if you're OK with Rapidfires, brifters aren't that far away. You'd be able to transition in no time.
If you want vintage, get another bike instead. If you're happy with just the look you should be able to pick up a period perfect bike fairly cheaply by hitting a few yardsales. New tires, cables, perhaps a chain and a lube job and you'll be rolling again.
With a modern frame. flat bar and DT shifters, the bike would be a bit of a mongrel anyhow. You could get some psuedo vintage look going if you used a moustache or a North Road bar.
You may want to look for a smaller chainring/crankset. With a flat bar, you won't really need a 50+ tooth count as a biggest ring.
If you stay within the Shimano family, most rear shifters are compatible with most derailers as long as the number of sprockets match the number of speeds in the shifter. There are some exceptions though.
Your biggest hurdle will be that road front derailers have another actuation ration than MTB shifters. And MTB derailers tend to be a bit unhappy having to deal with the bigger chainwheels used on road bikes. They may also have the cable pull in another orientation.
If you were to get a MTB brake/shifter combo, then it's probably intended for v-brakes, which also have another actuation ratio than "road" caliper brakes.
The easy and elegant approach is to buy flat bar road shifters/levers http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp;jsessionid=QPzlTpGW229tPHRQQv7mrQSnlJHsvxNtTHDMm55spytfVqJvrGjx!-1786427113?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051115&bmUID=jbZOmqC
With a nice frame, this'd be my option.
Or you can get a right rapidfire unit for the rear shifting, a left thumb/friction shifter for the front, and some appropriate flat bar canti/caliper brake levers.
Here's a link that may be helpful:http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946
Even if Miami is decently flat, I still wouldn't go for downtube shifters.
In my book, shifting is GOOD, and should be made easy. With DTs, I'm a lot more likely to stubborn it out rather than shift, which my knees don't appreciate at all.
Granted, drop bars may be a bit of an acquired taste, and if you've decided you don't want that - good for you. You should have the bike the way you want it. But if you're OK with Rapidfires, brifters aren't that far away. You'd be able to transition in no time.
If you want vintage, get another bike instead. If you're happy with just the look you should be able to pick up a period perfect bike fairly cheaply by hitting a few yardsales. New tires, cables, perhaps a chain and a lube job and you'll be rolling again.
With a modern frame. flat bar and DT shifters, the bike would be a bit of a mongrel anyhow. You could get some psuedo vintage look going if you used a moustache or a North Road bar.
You may want to look for a smaller chainring/crankset. With a flat bar, you won't really need a 50+ tooth count as a biggest ring.
Oh wow ! That was very informative, so I can use the 440 shimano shifters to achieve my goal. As far as the the sprocket, I was informed he'd look for the matching rear cassette and give it to me if he found it, I'm hoping that goes well. Now will I also need to use the 440 derailer and rear mechanism or will they be compatible with the shimano 600 that I already have ? I ask because the second link hints that all shimano is interchangeable as far as the rear mechanism goes but that there are differences in compatibility of the front derailers. I'm on a budget so the less parts I have to buy the better, ecspecially since all of my harware is in new condition. The guy I bought it from had a brand new, high end bike (can't recall the name but i know it was gorgeous-started with a 'c') and he swapped the hardware from this bike because he said he had become accustomed to it. I figured that was better for me, but then I don't really know enough to say one's better than the other.
I also ride an assortment of bad roads and picked Bontreger H2 eco tires in 700c x 28. Hybrid tires like this are slightly wider thand 23 or 25mm road tires but still fit many frames and forks without a problem. As far as ride and performance they fall in between MTB and "real" road tires. If you are used to riding MTB tires on pavement, you're going to love a narrow hybrid. If you are using the bike for training/fitness/hybrid then 36 stainless steel spokes on an eyeletted double-wall alloy rim and a decent hub will give you plenty of strength for urban riding and even some cyclocross style offroading. Pick a rim that you can put narrower tires on if you later change your mind.
If you are looking to build a fast road bike, 25mm tires on a lighter wheel would be in order.
If you are looking to build a fast road bike, 25mm tires on a lighter wheel would be in order.
FWIW. Just a point of clarification ...
For some unknown reason someone in Shimano's tech ([COLOR= #808080]OR marketing![/COLOR]) department decided that a MTB front derailleur could not be used with a Road crank/chainring(s).
This is not true.
I have successfully used a "standard" Shimano top pull front derailleur with both a 52t & a 53t chainring.
BTW. While the above mentioned/([COLOR= #808080]pictured[/COLOR]) setup is currently configured with Campagnolo shifters, I did test it with a TRIPLE CAPABLE (are all of them?) 9-speed SHIMANO 105 front shifters and it worked with a double crankset whereby I reckon one-or-two of the extra clicks typically used to move the derailleur cage to the third chainring assisted in helping the front derailleur cage traverse the span between the TWO chainrings.
Of course, there are numerous top/bottom/combination pull Shimano front MTB derailleurs which are designed to be used with their MTB shifters ...
- with Shimano shifters you want to be sure to match the chain to the front derailleur TO the shifters ... 9-speed with 9-speed, 8-speed with 8-speed, etc.
So I'm getting the idea that shifter companies put thes myths out here in order to convince people that you MUST buy the groupset as a whole, allowing them to make more money. Car companies do the exact same thing. so as of now I'm going to try to sourse a pair of Shimano 440-8 rapid fires and just see how it goes with the shimano 600 derailer and mechanism along with the proper chain and sprocket and see what I get. Now I'm on a VERY strict budget (I'm a college student, on child support !) so does anyone have suggestions of where online to get the best deals ? I checked amazon and couldn't find the exact shifters I was looking for.
Any company that sells parts that work as an integrated system will tell such things. They want to lock their customers into their product line. It's no big deal, because it's easy enough to go online and find out what the real compatibility possibilities or issues are. Also, with more experience working on bike, you'll start figuring out a lot of such claims aren't strictly true.
Ok, so I guess I'm still learning as I go. Does anyone know where I can find a full spec sheet for this bike. I was under the assumption that any 700 road wheels would fit that frame but now I'm seeing many different hub sizes for roadbike wheels. Is this something I can measure ? If so, is it as simple as measuring the distance inside of the frame and fork where the wheel bolt on ?
I must admit that I thought setting up a bike was much more straight forward than this, it's much more involved than I thought-not that it's a bad thing. I do enjoy this type of stuff (maybe I get it from being an auto tech) just would like a spec sheet so that I know what I'm working on. Thank you everyone for all your help thus far !
I must admit that I thought setting up a bike was much more straight forward than this, it's much more involved than I thought-not that it's a bad thing. I do enjoy this type of stuff (maybe I get it from being an auto tech) just would like a spec sheet so that I know what I'm working on. Thank you everyone for all your help thus far !
Well, one man's myth is another man's truth. Buying a complete groupset is the easy way to good, consistent, and predictable performance. Then there are some agreed, although not advertised combos which are known, and/or can be decrypted to run well together. But then there are also all those YMMV, borderline cases, which may be perfectly acceptable to one rider, but only promote cussing and frustration for others.
With few exceptions, Shimano rear derailers have the same actuation ratio, allowing plenty of mix'n match. Cassettes can usually be mixed with wild abandon, as long as you've got the speeds right for instance.
I've never had any issues with Ebay stuff, as long as I knew what I was going for. Cambriabike have some killer deals every now and then.
Front wheels, I've only come across one OLD, over-locknut-distance AKA distance between inside faces of dropouts. Rear wheels, there are some more. But for a CF bike, I'm thinking 130 mm is the only realistic option. And yeah, it's as easy as measuring.
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