newbie question about injuries



S

Snowden22

Guest
I've been running for about 10 weeks now, and everything has gone fine up until recently. Before a
Sept. 13 5k, I was up to about 15 miles a week. Now, two weeks later, something different hurts
every time I run. First I get weird pains in my ankle. The next time out, the ankle feels better,
but the hamstring and long tendon going to the knee hurts on the opposite leg. So I took a day off,
and went easy this morning. The hamstring and tendon seemed okay, but I had a pain in my calf that
made me have to walk after about half a mile.

This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my legs.
They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or "taking
it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people just not built
for running? I'm in good shape, otherwise. I lift weights regularly and had been using the
elliptical trainer ~1 hour total a week before I started running. I'm 25 and 6', 170 lbs, so I'm not
carrying any extra weight and my joints, etc. are still young.

Thanks for any advice you folks have for me. One other question - has anybody switched from morning
running to evening running and improved their injury situation? I'm wondering if running first thing
in the morning is causing problems.

Thanks again, Derek
 
On 24 Sep 2003 04:19:09 -0700, [email protected] (Snowden22) wrote:

>I've been running for about 10 weeks now, and everything has gone fine up until recently. Before a
>Sept. 13 5k, I was up to about 15 miles a week. Now, two weeks later, something different hurts
>every time I run. First I get weird pains in my ankle. The next time out, the ankle feels better,
>but the hamstring and long tendon going to the knee hurts on the opposite leg. So I took a day off,
>and went easy this morning. The hamstring and tendon seemed okay, but I had a pain in my calf that
>made me have to walk after about half a mile.
>
>This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my legs.
>They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or "taking
>it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people just not
>built for running? I'm in good shape, otherwise. I lift weights regularly and had been using the
>elliptical trainer ~1 hour total a week before I started running. I'm 25 and 6', 170 lbs, so I'm
>not carrying any extra weight and my joints, etc. are still young.
>
>Thanks for any advice you folks have for me. One other question - has anybody switched from morning
>running to evening running and improved their injury situation? I'm wondering if running first
>thing in the morning is causing problems.
>

Derek, The things you describe are normal pains for a beginner. Now if one becomes a regular thing,
then address it. Until buckup and take an aspirin. Although a thread on the dangers of aspirin is
sure to follow my post. The only other thing it maybe is a back problem. Every nerve in the body
runs through your spine (Doug and Donovan are exceptions, neither has spines) and a pinched nerve
can cause pain in any part of the body without your back hurting, so if it persists see a good
chiropractor. But like I said, unless it's the same thing hurting on a regular basis you're probably
just getting normal beginners pains. Personally if I run less than 55minutes I get all kinds of
pains, over that time and endorphins kick in and I have no discomfort even doing 9 miles a day (my
regular mileage).
 
On 24 Sep 2003 04:19:09 -0700, [email protected] (Snowden22) wrote:

>I've been running for about 10 weeks now, and everything has gone fine up until recently. Before a
>Sept. 13 5k, I was up to about 15 miles a week. Now, two weeks later, something different hurts
>every time I run. First I get weird pains in my ankle. The next time out, the ankle feels better,
>but the hamstring and long tendon going to the knee hurts on the opposite leg. So I took a day off,
>and went easy this morning. The hamstring and tendon seemed okay, but I had a pain in my calf that
>made me have to walk after about half a mile.
>
>This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my legs.
>They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or "taking
>it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people just not
>built for running? I'm in good shape, otherwise. I lift weights regularly and had been using the
>elliptical trainer ~1 hour total a week before I started running. I'm 25 and 6', 170 lbs, so I'm
>not carrying any extra weight and my joints, etc. are still young.
>
>Thanks for any advice you folks have for me. One other question - has anybody switched from morning
>running to evening running and improved their injury situation? I'm wondering if running first
>thing in the morning is causing problems.
>
>Thanks again, Derek

From my early experiences, my question is - how old are your shoes? I find that that is the first
sign my shoes are getting worn when I start getting pains like that. It occurs before I get any
obvious visual problems with them.

Also, go to a reputable running store in your area. At the one near me, they picked out the most
perfect pair of shoes I've ever worn - everything about the way they fit and felt were perfect. I
may never have found it on my own, but they judged how my foot falls and knew what would work.

That alone eliminated the early pains I was getting and really energized me.
 
No Bees wrote:

> Derek, The things you describe are normal pains for a beginner.

True but does not mean it has to be. Yes you're young but that does not mean you will escape startup
pains. Regardless of how few miles you run it may be too much for your current condition or possibly
the wrong shoes, bad form or one leg shorter or bad Karma. It's a big list to choose from.

Tell us about the miles(flat, hills, slanted, trails) and how the 15 miles is distributed across the
week. Example, are you running 5 miles Mon-Wed. How much were you increasing each week. Let's take a
look at your schedule and see if we can recommend some changes before we look for an extra X or Y
chromosome or as Bee brain suggests, spine problems, etc. :)

> Every nerve in the body runs through your spine (Doug and Donovan are exceptions, neither has
> spines) and a pinched nerve can cause pain in any part of

It's "have" spines. I'd go back and get your GED.

> Personally if I run less than 55minutes I get all kinds of pains, over that time and endorphins
> kick in and I have no discomfort even doing 9 miles a day (my regular mileage).

Yu da man! Reminds me of they guy that was asked why he hit himself in the head a hammer and
replied, because it feels good when I stop. This may be how Clarabell gets through his runs but
should not have be this way. Maybe it's his alleged 30 years of running and playing the macho role
of running through pain has him physically screwed up.

--
Doug Freese [email protected]
 
You think it's frustrating for you?! We're the ones who have to read those brain turds of yours.
 
Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

>
> Tell us about the miles(flat, hills, slanted, trails) and how the 15 miles is distributed across
> the week. Example, are you running 5 miles Mon-Wed. How much were you increasing each week. Let's
> take a look at your schedule and see if we can recommend some changes before we look for an extra
> X or Y chromosome or as Bee brain suggests, spine problems, etc. :)

Thanks for the help, folks. My "typical" week would be:

Monday - Slow 3 miles Tuesday - More brisk 3 miles Wednesday - Rest Thursday - slow to brisk 3 miles
Friday - Rest Sat - 6 miles slow Sun - Rest

Occasionally hill repeats or track work.

Week 1 was ~ 8 miles, and I built up to 15 miles over about 6 weeks. I usually added 1 mile to one
of the 4 runs.

Terrain - good asphalt. That is, no potholes, but asphalt none the less. Moderately hilly.

I've had these shoes for 10 weeks, so I'd guess there's about 100 miles on them. They are Nike Air
Rollin'. I guess they are pretty cheap, looking at the Nike website they are the least expensive
running shoe shown. But, I bought them because they came in extra widths.

Thanks again. I'm generally not a whiner - take my word for it ;')
 
[email protected] (Snowden22) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I've been running for about 10 weeks now, and everything has gone fine up until recently. Before a
> Sept. 13 5k, I was up to about 15 miles a week. Now, two weeks later, something different hurts
> every time I run. First I get weird pains in my ankle. The next time out, the ankle feels better,
> but the hamstring and long tendon going to the knee hurts on the opposite leg. So I took a day
> off, and went easy this morning. The hamstring and tendon seemed okay, but I had a pain in my calf
> that made me have to walk after about half a mile.
>
> This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my legs.
> They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or "taking
> it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people just not
> built for running? I'm in good shape, otherwise. I lift weights regularly and had been using the
> elliptical trainer ~1 hour total a week before I started running. I'm 25 and 6', 170 lbs, so I'm
> not carrying any extra weight and my joints, etc. are still young.
>
> Thanks for any advice you folks have for me. One other question - has anybody switched from
> morning running to evening running and improved their injury situation? I'm wondering if running
> first thing in the morning is causing problems.
>
> Thanks again, Derek

Do you stretch before, during, and after a run? That'd be my question for you.

If I don't stretch, I start to get achy pains here and there, usually in whatever place happened to
be too tight. If something starts to hurt while you're running, try stopping and stretching that
muscle out.

Another thing to try is to take a good long rest -- say 4 or 5 days, or even a whole week. Your
muscles may just need a longer recovery time. After a week off, I'd bet you'd come back stronger and
faster than ever. At the very least, try staying at 15 miles for a few weeks, and don't increase
your mileage until the achy pains have stopped. I am under the impression that it is quite common
for beginners to end up injured around the 10-12 week mark.

Listen to your body, it's trying to tell you something.

jen
 
Yet another example of crappy quoting skills.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:27:18 -0400, John R. Rybock <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 24 Sep 2003 04:19:09 -0700, [email protected] (Snowden22) wrote:
>
>>I've been running for about 10 weeks now, and everything has gone fine up until recently. Before a
>>Sept. 13 5k, I was up to about 15 miles a week. Now, two weeks later, something different hurts
>>every time I run. First I get weird pains in my ankle. The next time out, the ankle feels better,
>>but the hamstring and long tendon going to the knee hurts on the opposite leg. So I took a day
>>off, and went easy this morning. The hamstring and tendon seemed okay, but I had a pain in my calf
>>that made me have to walk after about half a mile.
>>
>>This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my legs.
>>They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or "taking
>>it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people just not
>>built for running? I'm in good shape, otherwise. I lift weights regularly and had been using the
>>elliptical trainer ~1 hour total a week before I started running. I'm 25 and 6', 170 lbs, so I'm
>>not carrying any extra weight and my joints, etc. are still young.
>>
>>Thanks for any advice you folks have for me. One other question - has anybody switched from
>>morning running to evening running and improved their injury situation? I'm wondering if running
>>first thing in the morning is causing problems.
>>
>>Thanks again, Derek
>
>From my early experiences, my question is - how old are your shoes? I find that that is the first
>sign my shoes are getting worn when I start getting pains like that. It occurs before I get any
>obvious visual problems with them.
>
>Also, go to a reputable running store in your area. At the one near me, they picked out the most
>perfect pair of shoes I've ever worn - everything about the way they fit and felt were perfect. I
>may never have found it on my own, but they judged how my foot falls and knew what would work.
>
>That alone eliminated the early pains I was getting and really energized me.
 
On 24 Sep 2003 11:39:23 -0700, [email protected] (shinypenny) wrote:
>Do you stretch before, during, and after a run? That'd be my question for you.
>
>If I don't stretch, I start to get achy pains here and there, usually in whatever place happened to
>be too tight.

I can help you with those "tight places".
 
Let's examine an example of spinelessness.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:35:33 GMT, Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>No Bees wrote:
>
>> Derek, The things you describe are normal pains for a beginner.
>
>True but does not mean it has to be. Yes you're young but that does not mean you will escape
>startup pains.

What are you a parrott?

>egardless of how few miles you run it may be too much for your current condition or possibly the
>wrong shoes, bad form or one leg shorter or bad Karma. It's a big list to choose from.
>
>Tell us about the miles(flat, hills, slanted, trails) and how the 15 miles is distributed across
>the week. Example, are you running 5 miles Mon-Wed. How much were you increasing each week.

Well this is a valid point, especially coming from a spineless slug. If you're doing 15 miles a week
but it's in one day, that's not good LOL

>Let's take a look at your schedule and see if we can recommend some changes before we look for an
>extra X or Y chromosome or as Bee brain suggests, spine problems, etc. :)
>
>

Be careful sharing too much info, Doug might just LIKE you a bit too much, if you catch my drift...

>> Every nerve in the body runs through your spine (Doug and Donovan are exceptions, neither has
>> spines) and a pinched nerve can cause pain in any part of
>
>It's "have" spines. I'd go back and get your GED.
>
>

I had to get it to get into college.

>> Personally if I run less than 55minutes I get all kinds of pains, over that time and endorphins
>> kick in and I have no discomfort even doing 9 miles a day (my regular mileage).
>
>Yu da man!

Yes I am, I'm a seasoned veteran in the running game, you are a slug who gives bad advice.

>eminds me of they guy that was asked why he hit himself in the head a hammer and replied, because
>it feels good when I stop.

But it DID feel better, didn't it?

> This may be how Clarabell

More of Dougs BS. Everyone knows Clarabelle retired from running shortly after Howdy died in that
tragic erotic-asphixiation accident.

>ets through his runs but should not have be this way. Maybe it's his alleged 30 years of running
>and playing the macho role of running through pain has him physically screwed up.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. I've clearly and consistently stated I have no
pain before, during, or after my runs, with the exception of 1 or 2 days a week when for the first 2
or 3 miles I have some odd warmup pains, but it subsides, and as long as I do a minimum of 60
minutes this pretty much remains constant. I've just found the perfect combination of the right
shoes, and the right distance for me. If your jealous that's TS. For some reason 9 miles on trails
seems to agree with me.
 
On 24 Sep 2003 10:37:43 -0700, [email protected] (Snowden22) wrote:

>Thanks again. I'm generally not a whiner - take my word for it ;')

This makes you offically a runner (the whining, not the honesty).
 
Ten weeks might be enough time for a new pair of shoes for some people.
 
> >
> > This is getting frustrating. After every run I end up trying to investigate a new pain in my
> > legs. They all seem to go away after a day or two, but I'm constantly taking a day or two off or
> > "taking it easy." Is it common to get to this point after a couple of months? Are some people
> > just not built for running? I'm in good shape,

> > their injury situation? I'm wondering if running first thing in the morning is causing problems.
> >
> > Thanks again, Derek
>
I second the advice given by jen/shinypenny.

Take a week off, so your body can respond to all your hard work and build itself up.

Do some easy nonimpact endurance exercise to warm up, then work your muscles loose. No ambitious
static stretching but begin to learn your limits. Use a rolling pin on your legs to add suppleness.

You have a decent weekly schedule, otherwise.

Without a full recovery, you just break yourself down, get injured and then take many weeks to
start over.

Running suits you if you have the patience to balance stress(miles, pace) and recovery(when
improvement in the body takes place).

>
> Do you stretch before, during, and after a run? That'd be my question for you.
>
> If I don't stretch, I start to get achy pains here and there, usually in whatever place happened
> to be too tight. If something starts to hurt while you're running, try stopping and stretching
> that muscle out.
>
> Another thing to try is to take a good long rest -- say 4 or 5 days, or even a whole week. Your
> muscles may just need a longer recovery time. After a week off, I'd bet you'd come back stronger
> and faster than ever. At the very least, try staying at 15 miles for a few weeks, and don't
> increase your mileage until the achy pains have stopped. I am under the impression that it is
> quite common for beginners to end up injured around the 10-12 week mark.
>
> Listen to your body, it's trying to tell you something.
>
> jen
 
Snowden22 wrote:

> Thanks for the help, folks. My "typical" week would be:
>
> Monday - Slow 3 miles Tuesday - More brisk 3 miles Wednesday - Rest Thursday - slow to brisk 3
> miles Friday - Rest Sat - 6 miles slow Sun - Rest
>
> Occasionally hill repeats or track work.

You mileage in general in too low, i.e. not enough of base to be tossing in hill repeats or speed.

>
> Week 1 was ~ 8 miles, and I built up to 15 miles over about 6 weeks. I usually added 1 mile to one
> of the 4 runs.

The growth seems reasonable but the shift to quality, hills and speed to quick.
>
> Terrain - good asphalt. That is, no potholes, but asphalt none the less. Moderately hilly.

You are getting enough hills with you daily runs.
>
> I've had these shoes for 10 weeks, so I'd guess there's about 100 miles on them. They are Nike Air
> Rollin'. I guess they are pretty cheap, looking at the Nike website they are the least expensive
> running shoe shown. But, I bought them because they came in extra widths.

If Nike is hawking them for $60 then they really cost $30 and way to flimsy. It's not because they
are Nike, but basically not much of shoe. Almost all the brands make shoes in extra widths. Try to
find a mom and pop running shoe store and see what they suggest.

From the little I see, I'd get a better pair of shoes and stay with a increasing your base by 5%.
Once you get to 25-30 problem free miles a week I would then try some hill repeats. if this works
out ok then add some speed.

Should have asked this up front but what are your running goals?

It might help to take a look at at the Runner's World web site for startup programs.
http://www.runnersworld.com/

--
Doug Freese [email protected]
 
[email protected] (Snowden22) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Thanks for the help, folks. My "typical" week would be:
>
> Monday - Slow 3 miles Tuesday - More brisk 3 miles Wednesday - Rest Thursday - slow to brisk 3
> miles Friday - Rest Sat - 6 miles slow Sun - Rest
>
> Occasionally hill repeats or track work.
>
> Week 1 was ~ 8 miles, and I built up to 15 miles over about 6 weeks. I usually added 1 mile to one
> of the 4 runs.
>
> Terrain - good asphalt. That is, no potholes, but asphalt none the less. Moderately hilly.
>
> I've had these shoes for 10 weeks, so I'd guess there's about 100 miles on them. They are Nike Air
> Rollin'. I guess they are pretty cheap, looking at the Nike website they are the least expensive
> running shoe shown. But, I bought them because they came in extra widths.
>
> Thanks again. I'm generally not a whiner - take my word for it ;')

Those aches and pains are just your body screaming, "Ohmigod, this guy is SERIOUS! He really wants
us to go out and pound the pavement like this every other day!!!"

Give your body a chance to catch up. If it were me, I'd stay at this level for a month or two or
even longer, with no further increases. You've ramped up, now you need to build a good, solid base.
And it is not going to kill you if you take off 4 or 5 days or work in some cross-training days.

You could say I am an expert on re-starting my running program <grin>. Last year, I had to take off
about 9 months due to a lower back injury. When I started back, I began by running 4 to 5x per week,
just 2 miles, very very easy. I did that for 4 months to build a solid base.

Then about 6 weeks ago, I switched to Hal Higdon's 5-k Training plan (see
http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,2-51-55-637,00.html). With the gradual increase in mileage,
my body started groaning and now I'm having this hip problem. I am going to stay at this level of
mileage for awhile, until my body fully adjusts.

It's frustrating because my MIND wants to run a lot farther and more often; my body just doesn't
seem to want to cooperate. And it's frustrating because in the past I've been able to handle a lot
more mileage than this with no problem.

How's that for whining? :)

jen
 
In article <[email protected]>, shinypenny
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Do you stretch before, during, and after a run? That'd be my question for you.
>
> If I don't stretch, I start to get achy pains here and there, usually in whatever place happened
> to be too tight. If something starts to hurt while you're running, try stopping and stretching
> that muscle out.
>
> Another thing to try is to take a good long rest -- say 4 or 5 days, or even a whole week. Your
> muscles may just need a longer recovery time. After a week off, I'd bet you'd come back stronger
> and faster than ever. At the very least, try staying at 15 miles for a few weeks, and don't
> increase your mileage until the achy pains have stopped. I am under the impression that it is
> quite common for beginners to end up injured around the 10-12 week mark.
>
> Listen to your body, it's trying to tell you something.
>
> jen

I and the people I train know about stopping during training runs to massage out various aches and
tight spots...before they become a problem and chronic.

Training runs are for training the body to run easily and lightly so that the injury factor is
diminished, minimal and gradually gone.

Check out: http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp

Gradually you learn to find all kinds of ways to massage out one's muscles.

http://www.mindfulness.com/of5.asp

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
 
On 25 Sep 2003 08:20:27 -0700, [email protected] (shinypenny) wrote:

>[email protected] (Snowden22) wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> Thanks for the help, folks. My "typical" week would be:
>>
>> Monday - Slow 3 miles Tuesday - More brisk 3 miles Wednesday - Rest

From what?

>> Thursday - slow to brisk 3 miles Friday - Rest

From what?

>> Sat - 6 miles slow Sun - Rest
>>
Ok, one day, but resting from 3 miles is like resting up after a nap.
 
penny period wrote:

>
> From what?
>
>
>>>Thursday - slow to brisk 3 miles Friday - Rest
>
>
> From what?
>
>
>>>Sat - 6 miles slow Sun - Rest
>>>
>
> Ok, one day, but resting from 3 miles is like resting up after a nap.

The comment is penny wise and pound foolish! I love the play on name....

When you are in a startup program 3 miles may be a big effort and rest is necessary. Think of it
more of a rest to do the 6 mile run comfortably. Do you have some problem with rest days? Most
injuries can be avoided, especially in the startup months, with hard/easy days to include REST! An
ideal startup schedule is to run every other day.

For example take at look at hal Higdon's startup schedule for a 5k - notice the every other day of
rest? See http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-637,00.html

--
Doug Freese [email protected]
 
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:14:42 GMT, Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote:

>When you are in a startup program 3 miles may be a big effort and rest is necessary. Think of it
>more of a rest to do the 6 mile run comfortably. Do you have some problem with rest days? Most
>injuries can be avoided, especially in the startup months, with hard/easy days to include REST! An
>ideal startup schedule is to run every other day.
>

Well I'll buy the easy hard part, afterall rest is as important as your WO's. But he needs
consistency, especially in the beginning. I wasted a year of experimenting with rest days before I
figured out I need to run everyday, with an occasional/weekly day off. After rest days I'm stiff for
almost the next entire run. Arthritis of my spine may have something to do with it though, but that
wasn't diagnosed for twenty years later.
 
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