Newbie Question: Can someone help me to understand team racing strategy?

[Matthew Speed]

As with millions of other people, I, a casual cyclist, am following
the Tour de France. Since the last time I raced on a bike was 20
years ago and it was about a mile to the neighborhood swimming pool I
am completely ignorant of long distance team racing. Consequently, I
am trying to understand how racing strategy works and would greatly
appreciate someone pointing me to a site or recommending a book that
explains team racing strategy.

As an example, a stage recap talked about a rider breaking away and
some of Armstrong's teammates speeding up to pull the breakaway rider
back to the pack. Since cycling isn't a contact sport they obviously
weren't going to be doing something physical to him so what is it they
did?

TIA

 

[HardwareLust]

Matthew Speed wrote:
> As with millions of other people, I, a casual cyclist, am following
> the Tour de France. Since the last time I raced on a bike was 20
> years ago and it was about a mile to the neighborhood swimming pool I
> am completely ignorant of long distance team racing. Consequently, I
> am trying to understand how racing strategy works and would greatly
> appreciate someone pointing me to a site or recommending a book that
> explains team racing strategy.
>
> As an example, a stage recap talked about a rider breaking away and
> some of Armstrong's teammates speeding up to pull the breakaway rider
> back to the pack. Since cycling isn't a contact sport they obviously
> weren't going to be doing something physical to him so what is it they
> did?
>
> TIA

They (USPS) increased the tempo they were riding at so the entire main field
sped up. The team at the head of the peloton (the main group) controls the
speed at which the entire group rides at, specifically for this reason.

Once the breakaway rider(s) see that the main field has sped up, and that
they're not gaining enough time on the field to make it worthwhile to
continue, they slow down to return to the peloton.

Quite a bit of the time, if the rider(s) going off the front (attempting to
make a breakaway) aren't any threat to Lance or one of the other leaders,
they will let them get away from the group to try and win the day.
Sometimes, they let them get away for awhile, knowing that they will catch
them later in the stage. This allows the smaller teams to get one of their
riders on TV for awhile, which is very important for those teams that don't
have much of a chance at a stage win or the overall victory. TV coverage
drives the whole sponsorship thing even in Europe to some degree.

Great question. Keep it up, and you'll be a fan before you know it.

Regards,
H.

 

[Marc]

"HardwareLust" wrote:
>They (USPS) increased the tempo they were riding at so the entire main field
>sped up. The team at the head of the peloton (the main group) controls the
>speed at which the entire group rides at, specifically for this reason.
>
>Once the breakaway rider(s) see that the main field has sped up, and that
>they're not gaining enough time on the field to make it worthwhile to
>continue, they slow down to return to the peloton.
<snip>

OK, I'd like to hijack this thread and ask another newbie question.

I understand how drafting works on the flats or downhill when they
are going at high speed. But when these guys are cranking up a
mountain at a slow pace, how is (Hincapie for example) 'pulling'
Lance up the hill? How is having a domestique setting pace when
you're going straight up help? Is it just a psychological thing
or is there some kind of physical draft involved?

Thanks.

 

[keydates]

More psychological than physical.

 

[Shussbar]

>But when these guys are cranking up a
>mountain at a slow pace, how is (Hincapie for example) 'pulling'
>Lance up the hill? How is having a domestique setting pace when
>you're going straight up help? Is it just a psychological thing
>or is there some kind of physical draft involved?

I think that he is there to make a hard tempo for a while, then Azevedo take
charge of it, ( lance being the boss, will be able to follow), and they just
have to wait the opponents dropping back.
if lance has trouble to follow the hard tempo, well, that will be trouble. Did
not happen too mcuh the past 6 years though.

No draft involved.

 

[Jack Hollis]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:46:44 -0400, Matthew Speed <[email protected]>
wrote:

>As an example, a stage recap talked about a rider breaking away and
>some of Armstrong's teammates speeding up to pull the breakaway rider
>back to the pack. Since cycling isn't a contact sport they obviously
>weren't going to be doing something physical to him so what is it they
>did?

Team tactics are one of the most interesting parts of stage races.
Not all teams have the same goal.

There are teams that have sprinters who can ride over 40mph on a flat
road for a short time. On flat stages, these teams want to control
the race so they can have their sprinter near the front of the peloton
at the end of the day with a chance for the stage win. On a flat
racing day these teams will work hard to chase down any break away.
Their goal is to win stages.

Then there are teams that want one of their riders to win the GC,
which is the best overall time for all stages. These teams usually
have some good climbers and a team leader who is a really good
climber. They will watch to be sure that any rider who has a chance
to win the overall race doesn't get away. It doesn't matter if it's a
flat stage or a mountain stage, the GC contenders do not want to lose
time to a potential rival for the race win. They don't care too much
about riders that are not a threat. So the GC contenders usually stay
near the front of the peloton and watch each other carefully. If any
one of them tries to break away, the others respond.

The Posties are the best team in the Tour and they take control on
climbing days. They ride at a high pace that discourages anyone from
attacking. The pace also makes it hard for the other riders so
they're tired when the time comes for the last climb. Lance is never
in front during any of this. He's sitting back saving his energy for
the last part of the last hill. Then when all of Lance's team is
totally spent leading the pace up front, Lance takes over for the
final Ks.

This year it's all worked to perfection except for one stubborn
Italian.

In some cases, teams will work together to attack a strong rider, like
Lance, with multiple attacks from different riders trying to wear him
out. This hasn't happened this year because all of Lance's rival have
been left in the dust.

There's a lot more to it than this, but these are some of the basics
of team tactics.

I'm new to this group, but from what I can see there are some very
knowledgable people around here and if you want to learn about bike
racing keep reading and keep asking.

 

[Shussbar]

>The Posties are the best team in the Tour

I would be more specific than that and say that the team is build by, for and
around Lance 's objectives.
You will seldomly nor ever see in this team someone else than Armstrong go for
a stage win, they are not allowed to do that .
They are here for lance that s it.

One reason Herras and others left, to try to win some for them. Not as easy
though

Cheers

 

[Sonarrat]

in article [email protected], Shussbar at
[email protected]ospam wrote on 7/19/04 8:38 PM:

>> The Posties are the best team in the Tour
>
> I would be more specific than that and say that the team is build by, for and
> around Lance 's objectives.
> You will seldomly nor ever see in this team someone else than Armstrong go for
> a stage win, they are not allowed to do that .
> They are here for lance that s it.
>
> One reason Herras and others left, to try to win some for them. Not as easy
> though
>
> Cheers

Georgie tried to get in a breakaway, but they wouldn't let him go. (I
wonder why? It's not like he's a great sprinter.)

-Sonarrat.

 

[Raptor]

Shussbar wrote:
>>But when these guys are cranking up a
>>mountain at a slow pace, how is (Hincapie for example) 'pulling'
>>Lance up the hill? How is having a domestique setting pace when
>>you're going straight up help? Is it just a psychological thing
>>or is there some kind of physical draft involved?
>
>
> I think that he is there to make a hard tempo for a while, then Azevedo take
> charge of it, ( lance being the boss, will be able to follow), and they just
> have to wait the opponents dropping back.
> if lance has trouble to follow the hard tempo, well, that will be trouble. Did
> not happen too mcuh the past 6 years though.
>
> No draft involved.

Some draft involved. They're that fast. Calculate the average speed up
any of the HC climbs and it's fast enough, just.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

 

[Raptor]

Matthew Speed wrote:
> As with millions of other people, I, a casual cyclist, am following
> the Tour de France. Since the last time I raced on a bike was 20
> years ago and it was about a mile to the neighborhood swimming pool I
> am completely ignorant of long distance team racing. Consequently, I
> am trying to understand how racing strategy works and would greatly
> appreciate someone pointing me to a site or recommending a book that
> explains team racing strategy.
>
> As an example, a stage recap talked about a rider breaking away and
> some of Armstrong's teammates speeding up to pull the breakaway rider
> back to the pack. Since cycling isn't a contact sport they obviously
> weren't going to be doing something physical to him so what is it they
> did?

The key fact: it's about 30% easier to ride 6" from someone's rear wheel
than it is to ride in front.

Get on a bike on an open road (ride enough to get comfortable and
stable), ride at least 15 mph, then take it to 16, 17, as fast as you
can hold onto it. Then find a buddy and gingerly practice riding a
steady speed insanely close to their wheel. It takes a lot of practice
and concentration to do smoothly and safely. Then see how fast the two
of you can go for a long period, by trading the lead back and forth.

(Or not, and just take our word for it.

Eventually you grow to get a very fine feel for the wind, and an
abhorrance of it when you're tired and riding with a group.

Now, realize that the pros on a good day will do a solid 30 mph in a
group of three or more on conventional bikes. Faster on aerodynamic time
trial bikes. Be impressed.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

 

[Booker C. Bense]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>Shussbar wrote:
>>>But when these guys are cranking up a
>>>mountain at a slow pace, how is (Hincapie for example) 'pulling'
>>>Lance up the hill? How is having a domestique setting pace when
>>>you're going straight up help? Is it just a psychological thing
>>>or is there some kind of physical draft involved?
>>
>>
>> I think that he is there to make a hard tempo for a while, then Azevedo take
>> charge of it, ( lance being the boss, will be able to follow), and they just
>> have to wait the opponents dropping back.
>> if lance has trouble to follow the hard tempo, well, that will be trouble. Did
>> not happen too mcuh the past 6 years though.
>>
>> No draft involved.
>
>Some draft involved. They're that fast. Calculate the average speed up
>any of the HC climbs and it's fast enough, just.
>

_ Plus mountains generally have upslope and downslope winds
depending on the time of day. Even a 2-3mph headwind can make a
difference...

_ Booker C. Bense

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[Jack Hollis]

On 20 Jul 2004 03:38:01 GMT, [email protected]ospam (Shussbar) wrote:

>>The Posties are the best team in the Tour
>
>I would be more specific than that and say that the team is build by, for and
>around Lance 's objectives.
>You will seldomly nor ever see in this team someone else than Armstrong go for
>a stage win, they are not allowed to do that .
>They are here for lance that s it.
>
>One reason Herras and others left, to try to win some for them. Not as easy
>though


All of that is true, but the Posties are still the best team
supporting the best rider. An excellent combination.