News flash: Ullrich has a cold.



patch70 said:
Maybe I am being a bit presumptive, but when I have worked in sports med, the elite athletes tended to be totally obsessed with every little twinge and sniffle that might possibly stop them being at their peak. Maybe we are just made more aware of his minor illnesses because of his profile?

You're probably right. But the distressing thing is that Ulle stops riding when he gets these things.
 
Define stress though
As we're talking about physiology, not metalurgy, language or music, :) then there is only one definition of stress: anything that affects equillibrium or homeostasis in the body, which then effects a change. This is fundamental in physiology, you could say that this is physiology.

We must also note that none of the changes are free, they use the body's resources.

So minor changes in temperature are a stress on the body, one it can normally cope with quite easily. But, add into the equation, hard training, weight loss, fat loss, physiological and physical adaptations to training in the heat. Now move this body into a colder environment the body will now try to reverse some of these changes(a stress!!)and add an opportunistic endemic cold virus.And we're back to my first post and Jan's cold! I'm not saying that is what caused it, but that cold can be a factor in catching a cold.


Now go back a hundred years or two .... people are undernourished, lack warm clothes, it's winter, it's cold and an old wife is waving goodbye to her old husband on the doorstep. "Don't go out there with your compromised immune system, as it will be further compromised by the low ambient temperatures, and, should you meet someone with a virus you will have no defence and you will catch a .....thingy, what shall we call it? I know a cold, because it's cold and the cold was a factor we'll call it a cold!!" :)

I love old wives, they were always so sensible. It's the young scientist tales you've got to watch out for, for they have irrefutable proof:)


"
A very stressed person will still have the same levels of "stress hormones" (such as cortisol) as someone who is relaxed"
...including adrenalin?
 
ElRamon said:
" ...including adrenalin?
Very hard to measure due to its very short half life but then it is not a substance that is thought to have any effect on the immune system. But if you measure urinary catecholamines (breakdown products of adrenaline, noradrenaline etc), then there is no difference compared to the general population.

Regarding cold temperatures, again, you need to give the body more credit. The amount of energy required to maintain a normal core body temperature in the face of changing ambient temperature is very little. Especially if you are riding hard at the time and already producing a lot of heat. (And if you are wearing clothes).

If anything, it is the over-training that leads to a greater susceptibility to colds rather than the energy required to maintain normal body temperature.

Plus, in the cold weather, viruses can remain viable on surfaces for longer than they can in hot weather. Thus you are more likely to get a viable virus on your hands in cold weather and then introduce it by touching your mouth, nose or eyes without washing your hands. It is nothing to do with any effect on your immune system caused by cold weather.
 
baileyj said:
doesn't have a low body fat like im sure many of these professionals have weaken your immune system than say somebody with a 8%-12% bodyfat.
I have some body building friends in the below 5% bf range and they seem to get colds more often when they are trying to stay at that level. That is why they don't keep their body fat that low.
I could be wrong though. But it does seem like Jan is sick a lot.
So, its either fat Jan or sick Jan. lol. Whats better??????
 
Grrrr, I hate it when things get all technical! Lets say all your theories are correct. Why is it so damn easy for Jan to catch these and yet, say Lance Armstrong or Ivan Basso never seem to get 'illnesses'? Its so frustrating!!!! :confused:
 
Sportz girl:There is the saying " I got so fast I caught a cold" so, maybe Jan just gets too fast too soon. But, as someone said earlier it's maybe over reported. :)

Adrenalin: Strangely this cropped up in biochemstry lecture I attended on magnesium's role in the body yesterday. Adrenalin affects the T1 and 2 helper cells. There's a shift to T2 away from T1 ie the virus bashers!
 
ElRamon said:
Adrenalin: Strangely this cropped up in biochemstry lecture I attended on magnesium's role in the body yesterday. Adrenalin affects the T1 and 2 helper cells. There's a shift to T2 away from T1 ie the virus bashers!
Cold weather doesn't make you produce adrenaline.
Urinary catecholamine levels are the same in warm & cold climate populations.
Our understanding of the entire significance of T1 vs. T2 cell mediated immunity is basic at best. Cold viruses don't seem to be a major problem either way, unlike infections such as leprosy, TB, Buruli ulcers where the T1 vs. T2 thing is very significant.
 
Very hard to measure due to its very short half life but then it is not a substance that is thought to have any effect on the immune system.

It was in reference to the above.


Urinary catecholamine levels are the same in warm & cold climate populations
of course they are, but what does that prove other than the body has adapted to the environment. The stressors come into play when the adaptations occur/are occuring.

Cold weather doesn't make you produce adrenaline
It's sympathetics: when exposed to cold they stimulate production of adrenalin to help mobilise fats. It'll also be produced by falling sugar levels as the body uses fuel to produce heat.





This is all getting a bit bogged down in minutae. It's better to look at the whole picture

The fact is: that it's harder/more stressfull for the body to train/work in cold weather than it is in warmer weather. (yes, as you say we can wear clothes but , we still have to breathe the cold air). Whilst cold alone would not give you a cold, it can increase the likelyhood of the body not being able to fight the infection.

You must have noticed yourself, that training in cold is much harder than training in in the warmth, recovery is quicker too.
 
His immune system could be affected by the cutting process. He is probably cutting carbs to starve his body. I would imagine it is how he starts his season, since he takes the winter off(obviously, :rolleyes: ). If he was going to cheat, with PED's. He would have done it last year. It is clear that he didn't. He has alot of humility. When his legs weren't there, at the Tour. He helped his team do the best it could, without him at the helm. I don't think Jan is a cheater.
 
Peter Van Petegem & Robbie McEwen currently on antibiotics for 'bronchitis'.
Baden Cooke, Snady Casar & Matt Willson had the 'flu recently.
Thor Hushovd probably pulling out of Het Volk because of unspecified illness.
Katie Mactier recently admitted with pneumonia (in Australian Summer).
Filippo Pozzato out of the Classic Haribo with the 'flu.
Elsbeth Vink out of competition for 5 months with EBV.
Sylvain Calzati out with toxoplasmosis.

Why are we all focussing on Jan?

Also, I train sometimes with a few guys that do the Hawaii Ironman. When they get a cold, it seems to last weeks rather than days.

Seems to me more likely that this possible increase in infections in these elite athletes is either:
(a) it gets in the news, unlike our own colds.
(b) overtraining, leading to greater susceptibility.
(c) continuing to train when an infection starts, when the body is needing you to rest.

(Plus: Nothing to do with the weather!!!).
 
ElRamon said:
Sportz girl:There is the saying " I got so fast I caught a cold" so, maybe Jan just gets too fast too soon. But, as someone said earlier it's maybe over reported. :)

Adrenalin: Strangely this cropped up in biochemstry lecture I attended on magnesium's role in the body yesterday. Adrenalin affects the T1 and 2 helper cells. There's a shift to T2 away from T1 ie the virus bashers!
Yeah, it probably is over reported a bit. I guess we wouldn't be getting all in a spin if someone else had a cold! But hey, thats just they way it is with JU.
 
sportzgurl said:
Yeah, it probably is over reported a bit. I guess we wouldn't be getting all in a spin if someone else had a cold! But hey, thats just they way it is with JU.

Lots of people get sick. The thing with JU is that everytime he gets sick he's off the bike. A cold in Jan.? Ulle doesn't ride for a week. A cold during the first two mountain stages of Tour 2004? He drops 5 mins. Nothing wrong with a little cold, but when it effects a rider like it seems to effect Ulle, well then, that's a problem.
 
JU fans go to insane extremes to explain his 2nd (and 4th) place performances. Oh, he was sick! It's Zabel's fault! If Kloden would have supported him!

This is a lot of nonsense. I like Lance; but I also like Jan. But I don't buy these lame execuses. JU can win the Tour, but he only will win the Tour when he takes personal responsibility for winning. No blaming illness. And no letting Kloden knock Zabel. And no carefully dissing Godefroot. If JU shows up in form, Telekom [I can't say "T-Mobile" -- to me, it will always be "Telekom"] will protect the jersey. Why doesn't Telekom race for JU? Because JU hasn't give them anything to race for.

Any team will fight hard for a man with the form, drive and promise to win. Ulle hasn't shown any of that since 1997 (with sad moments in 1998).
 
tcklyde said:
JU fans go to insane extremes to explain his 2nd (and 4th) place performances. Oh, he was sick! It's Zabel's fault! If Kloden would have supported him!

This is a lot of nonsense. I like Lance; but I also like Jan. But I don't buy these lame execuses. JU can win the Tour, but he only will win the Tour when he takes personal responsibility for winning. No blaming illness. And no letting Kloden knock Zabel. And no carefully dissing Godefroot. If JU shows up in form, Telekom [I can't say "T-Mobile" -- to me, it will always be "Telekom"] will protect the jersey. Why doesn't Telekom race for JU? Because JU hasn't give them anything to race for.

Any team will fight hard for a man with the form, drive and promise to win. Ulle hasn't shown any of that since 1997 (with sad moments in 1998).
Im no doctor but I have done some reading and spoke to my doctor on the matter. For those of you that are wondering how elite athletes get sick I say this. Elite athletes are always training on the verge of illness especially in the periodization and racing period where stressors are increased. When the temperature drops you immune system can be temporarily paralized, I guess some peoples immune system work better then others. It is said that losing weight and cutting carbs is also a major contributor to stress, ie. when the body releases cortisol and needs carbs for fuel , if carbs arent there you are definately going catabolic. I am sure there are many immune deficiencies associated with this. But mainly the drop in temperature due to winds etc can drop the body's temp enough to paralize the immune system . That is why when we have a fever our temps increase to blood flow etc. and the white cells or whatever to combat the cold.
 
996vtwin said:
Im no doctor but I have done some reading and spoke to my doctor on the matter. For those of you that are wondering how elite athletes get sick I say this. Elite athletes are always training on the verge of illness especially in the periodization and racing period where stressors are increased. When the temperature drops you immune system can be temporarily paralized, I guess some peoples immune system work better then others. It is said that losing weight and cutting carbs is also a major contributor to stress, ie. when the body releases cortisol and needs carbs for fuel , if carbs arent there you are definately going catabolic. I am sure there are many immune deficiencies associated with this. But mainly the drop in temperature due to winds etc can drop the body's temp enough to paralize the immune system . That is why when we have a fever our temps increase to blood flow etc. and the white cells or whatever to combat the cold.
No offence intended but what you say about temperature is rubbish. Changes in ambient temp do not affect the body's core temp. Wind has no affect on immune function. Change in temp does not lead to immune paralysis. Extremes of exertion seem to contribute to greater risk of infection but that occurs whether you are training in hot or cold climates.

When you get an infection, you get a fever because of release of cytokines by activated white blood cells. This amps up the immune response and makes it harder for some infections to persist. Thus a fever is in our benefit when we have an infection.
 
patch70 said:
No offence intended but what you say about temperature is rubbish. Changes in ambient temp do not affect the body's core temp. Wind has no affect on immune function. Change in temp does not lead to immune paralysis. Extremes of exertion seem to contribute to greater risk of infection but that occurs whether you are training in hot or cold climates.

When you get an infection, you get a fever because of release of cytokines by activated white blood cells. This amps up the immune response and makes it harder for some infections to persist. Thus a fever is in our benefit when we have an infection.
Well answer me this Sir, I rode in the wind and the rain for 3 hours and woke up the next day with URTI, so can you explain this?
 
tcklyde said:
JU fans go to insane extremes to explain his 2nd (and 4th) place performances. Oh, he was sick! It's Zabel's fault! If Kloden would have supported him!

This is a lot of nonsense. I like Lance; but I also like Jan. But I don't buy these lame execuses. JU can win the Tour, but he only will win the Tour when he takes personal responsibility for winning. No blaming illness. And no letting Kloden knock Zabel. And no carefully dissing Godefroot. If JU shows up in form, Telekom [I can't say "T-Mobile" -- to me, it will always be "Telekom"] will protect the jersey. Why doesn't Telekom race for JU? Because JU hasn't give them anything to race for.

Any team will fight hard for a man with the form, drive and promise to win. Ulle hasn't shown any of that since 1997 (with sad moments in 1998).

You're right, and I think T-Mobile will have serious team leader issues in the TDF. Kloden getting second last year and Vino third the year before, why would they sacrifice their chances for a win working for Jan who historically has been ill-prepared to win?
 
996vtwin said:
Well answer me this Sir, I rode in the wind and the rain for 3 hours and woke up the next day with URTI, so can you explain this?
Very easily! Between one and five days prior to the onset of your symptoms, you came into contact with a virus such as a rhinovirus or a coronavirus. Probably this was on a surface that you touched and then you transferred the virus to a mucous membrane such as the inside of your mouth or nose or else your eye. (Remember to wash your hands before eating, picking your nose or touching your eye!)

This particular virus was not one that you had been in contact with before/recently so you had inadequate immunity to protect you. Thus, you caught a cold. Just because it is colloquially known as a 'cold' doesn't mean it has anything to do with the weather being cold. Cold viruses are around all year. They persist longer on surfaces though (in general) in cooler, damper weather so you are more likely to contact them in times of such weather.

You can contact these viruses even in summer and still catch a cold. Conversely, if you do not come into contact with them in winter, even if it is really, really cold, you will not get a cold. The VIRUS is required.
 
patch70 said:
Very easily! Between one and five days prior to the onset of your symptoms, you came into contact with a virus such as a rhinovirus or a coronavirus. Probably this was on a surface that you touched and then you transferred the virus to a mucous membrane such as the inside of your mouth or nose or else your eye. (Remember to wash your hands before eating, picking your nose or touching your eye!)

This particular virus was not one that you had been in contact with before/recently so you had inadequate immunity to protect you. Thus, you caught a cold. Just because it is colloquially known as a 'cold' doesn't mean it has anything to do with the weather being cold. Cold viruses are around all year. They persist longer on surfaces though (in general) in cooler, damper weather so you are more likely to contact them in times of such weather.

You can contact these viruses even in summer and still catch a cold. Conversely, if you do not come into contact with them in winter, even if it is really, really cold, you will not get a cold. The VIRUS is required.
Ok MR Smarty pants read this and respond and then tell us that cold winds do not dosrupt our iummune system....

The scientific studies are rather convincing, but let's consider other known impacts of cold air on the respiratory system. First, cold air affects an important defense mechanism -- mucus transport. The entire respiratory system is coated with a very thin layer of mucus called the mucus blanket, which rests on tiny hairs called cilia. This mucus blanket traps particles and organisms before they can reach the lungs. This constantly moving blanket acts as a conveyer belt to move the particles out of the respiratory system. Proper action of the mucociliary blanket depends on the mucus having the appropriate mixture of stickiness (to catch the particles) and fluidity (to move the particles up and out). When this is altered by dry air, irritating chemicals, cigarette smoke, or any other factor, the respiratory system becomes more susceptible to infection. Cold air stimulates an increase in mucus production, but like other substances, mucus becomes thicker in colder temperatures. Thus, inhaled particles are cleared less easily when a person breathes cold air.

Piecing the available evidence together, I draw a different conclusion than either traditional wisdom or current medical opinion -- 1) It is clear that in order to catch a respiratory infection of any type, one must be exposed to the causative organism; 2) If exposed, however, it is more likely that an individual will become sick if he or she has been breathing cold air.
 
996vtwin said:
Piecing the available evidence together, I draw a different conclusion than either traditional wisdom or current medical opinion -- 1) It is clear that in order to catch a respiratory infection of any type, one must be exposed to the causative organism; 2) If exposed, however, it is more likely that an individual will become sick if he or she has been breathing cold air.
I would change that to:
1) You must be exposed - agreed
2) In colder, wetter weather, one is more likely to be exposed.

Just because you find something on the internet doesn't always mean that it is true. I can refer you to any number of immunology or infectious diseases textbooks if you'd like.
 

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