Nexus brake woes

[[email protected]]

I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
without having the brake drag when not engaged. Short of switching to
a rim brake, does anyone have a good / easy / affordable fix for this
situation? At the moment I am just living with it, as the front brake
is the more important one, but I would prefer to have a decent rear
brake, even if only as a backup.

Later,
Mark

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

[email protected] wrote:

> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
> without having the brake drag when not engaged. Short of switching to
> a rim brake, does anyone have a good / easy / affordable fix for this
> situation? At the moment I am just living with it, as the front brake
> is the more important one, but I would prefer to have a decent rear
> brake, even if only as a backup.

These brakes do have a long travel but they have about the same cable
pull as modern cantilevers. IME they firm up when the bike is moving
and testing them while stationary is misleading.

What is the exact model of brake lever you're using? Something like RSX
should be OK, but I don't know about the race models.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

[email protected] wrote:

> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
> without having the brake drag when not engaged.

Right. These things are made for long-travel brake levers. The only
drop bar lever that's truly suitable would be a Dia Compe 287V.

> Short of switching to
> a rim brake, does anyone have a good / easy / affordable fix for this
> situation?

Quality Bicycle Products makes a device called a "Travel Agent" that
would let it work with your current levers by changing the cable pull.

See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BR0330

> At the moment I am just living with it, as the front brake
> is the more important one, but I would prefer to have a decent rear
> brake, even if only as a backup.

I own three Nexus-geared bikes (1 7s-speed, 2 8-speed.) I left the
Rollerbrakes off of them partly because of this, partly because the
Rollerbrakes aren't terribly good brakes, and partly because the
Rollerbrakes weigh a pound and a quarter, WAY more than a decent caliper.

http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-competition
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Sheldon "Rarely Uses The Rear Brake Anyway" Brown
+--------------------------------+
| Happy Reynolds Day! (5/31) |
+--------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
>> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
>> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
>> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
>> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
>> without having the brake drag when not engaged.
>
>
> Right. These things are made for long-travel brake levers. The only
> drop bar lever that's truly suitable would be a Dia Compe 287V.

The proper dual-position lever for flat bars is always set in the
position for cantis, not V-brakes, when using the roller brake:

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/c...nts/BR/SI-BR-IM75-F_v2_m56577569830551923.pdf

Therefore a drop bar lever that works with cantis, like the RSX, is
suitable. Having said that, ISTR that the 287V cable pull is really
somewhere between a canti and a V-brake, so it should also be OK and
will give the firmer feel the OP wants.

I don't like 287Vs personally - they're an ugly hack of a standard 287,
with a lot of friction. They're the only game in town for that
particular application though :-(

 

[[email protected]]

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
>
> These brakes do have a long travel but they have about the same cable
> pull as modern cantilevers. IME they firm up when the bike is moving
> and testing them while stationary is misleading.
>
> What is the exact model of brake lever you're using? Something like RSX
> should be OK, but I don't know about the race models.


To be honest, the roller brake didn't work that well with the original
brake lever, which was a generic mountain bike cantilever lever. It
didn't seem to have enough cable travel either, but it was a bit better
than it is now.

I am currently using a pair of new Shimano 300EX (ie Exage) levers.
The front brake is a Tektro Oryx cantilever, which works superbly,
especially with Kool Stop salmon brake pads. My testing has been on
the road, as I ride this bike as a commuter every day.

Later,
Mark

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

[email protected] wrote:

> The front brake is a Tektro Oryx cantilever, which works superbly,
> especially with Kool Stop salmon brake pads. My testing has been on
> the road, as I ride this bike as a commuter every day.

I have the same setup on my touring bike, but with RSX levers. I tried
to get V's to work nicely with 287V levers but gave up due to excessive
friction.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
>>> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
>>> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
>>> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
>>> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
>>> without having the brake drag when not engaged.
>>
I replied:
>>
>> Right. These things are made for long-travel brake levers. The only
>> drop bar lever that's truly suitable would be a Dia Compe 287V.
>
Zog The Undeniable wrote:
>
> The proper dual-position lever for flat bars is always set in the
> position for cantis, not V-brakes, when using the roller brake:
>
> http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/c...nts/BR/SI-BR-IM75-F_v2_m56577569830551923.pdf
>
That is the Official Party Line, but hasn't been my experience nor that
of [email protected].

The lever illustrated in that .pdf is not what [email protected] and
I believe it pulls rather more cable, even in the "C.R." setting than
his drop bar lever.
>
> Therefore a drop bar lever that works with cantis, like the RSX,
> is suitable.

All drop bar levers work with cantis, except the 287V.

Having said that, ISTR that the 287V cable pull is really
> somewhere between a canti and a V-brake, so it should also be OK and
> will give the firmer feel the OP wants.

Right, that's why I recommended it.

> I don't like 287Vs personally - they're an ugly hack of a standard 287,
> with a lot of friction. They're the only game in town for that
> particular application though :-(

I'm in agreement there. I do have 287Vs on one of my bikes, and found
they work a lot better if you _don't_ run the cables under the handlebar
tape. This eliminates the worst bend in their cable run, right where
they exit the internal noodle.

See: http://sheldonbrown.org/thorn/pages/raven01.htm

Sheldon "Don't Believe Everything You Read" Brown
+--------------------------------+
| Happy Reynolds Day! (5/31) |
+--------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:16:10 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
> without having the brake drag when not engaged.

I have the same problem. Like many folks here, I had enough parts in my
basement to build a complete bike, so I decided to do it. I had the
Shimano Nexus-7 that I had taken off of the tandem (not enough gear range,
and difficult shifting in some circumstances), and built up my old Frejus
with it as a rain bike. I thought the roller brake would be good for
this, since it is supposed to not fade in the rain. But so far the
braking from that roller brake is not enough to inspire confidence. I had
the lever all the way to the bar, and was not appreciably slowing down on
a very moderate downhill.

I want to keep the cost down, too. I have a pair of the Dia Compe levers
on the tandem, and I suppose I could use the right one with that, but that
would mean re-taping both bikes.... The tandem's rear brake is a u-brake,
which requires much less pull.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

 

[Dave Larrington]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Zog The Undeniable wrote:

>> I don't like 287Vs personally - they're an ugly hack of a standard
>> 287, with a lot of friction. They're the only game in town for that
>> particular application though :-(
>
> I'm in agreement there. I do have 287Vs on one of my bikes, and found
> they work a lot better if you _don't_ run the cables under the
> handlebar tape. This eliminates the worst bend in their cable run,
> right where they exit the internal noodle.
>
> See: http://sheldonbrown.org/thorn/pages/raven01.htm

Gagh! /Now/ he tells me... My Romany has Vs and 287Vs and I was convinced
for a while that I been sold standard 287s, on account of the general
crapness of the brakes. Then I remembered they'd come with noodles with
built-in cable adjusters... I resorted to putting a Travel Agent in as well,
and carefree braking is now possible.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
The System is well pleased with this Unit's performance, which falls
within expected parameters.

 

[[email protected]]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
> Right. These things are made for long-travel brake levers. The only
> drop bar lever that's truly suitable would be a Dia Compe 287V.
>

That is what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation.

>
> Quality Bicycle Products makes a device called a "Travel Agent" that
> would let it work with your current levers by changing the cable pull.
>
> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BR0330

I have used the 90 version of the "Travel Agent" for a linear pull
brake with conventional levers, and wasn't too thilled with it - a bit
draggy, and a pain (for me, at least) to set up.

>
> I own three Nexus-geared bikes (1 7s-speed, 2 8-speed.) I left the
> Rollerbrakes off of them partly because of this, partly because the
> Rollerbrakes aren't terribly good brakes, and partly because the
> Rollerbrakes weigh a pound and a quarter, WAY more than a decent caliper.
>

If I remove the roller brake, is there some type of gaping hole on the
hub that needs to be covered up?

Any suggestions for a good rim brake with about 70mm of reach? It
seems like the options are:

1) BMX sidepull. Some reports in this newsgroup indicate these may be
on the flexiible side. Which of these, if any, are recommended?

2) U-brake "plate" with a U-Brake. The "plate" mounts to the brake
bridge and has posts for mounting a U-Brake. Would this be any better
that the BMX style sidepulls?

3) An old centerpull. I don't want to go here, as routing the cable
is somewhat problematic due to the need for a cable hanger.

Thanks in advance,
Mark Muller

 

[Jim Smith]

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> writes:

> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>>
>> Right. These things are made for long-travel brake levers. The only
>> drop bar lever that's truly suitable would be a Dia Compe 287V.
>>
>
> That is what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation.
>
>>
>> Quality Bicycle Products makes a device called a "Travel Agent" that
>> would let it work with your current levers by changing the cable pull.
>>
>> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=BR0330
>
> I have used the 90 version of the "Travel Agent" for a linear pull
> brake with conventional levers, and wasn't too thilled with it - a bit
> draggy, and a pain (for me, at least) to set up.
>
>>
>> I own three Nexus-geared bikes (1 7s-speed, 2 8-speed.) I left the
>> Rollerbrakes off of them partly because of this, partly because the
>> Rollerbrakes aren't terribly good brakes, and partly because the
>> Rollerbrakes weigh a pound and a quarter, WAY more than a decent caliper.
>>
>
> If I remove the roller brake, is there some type of gaping hole on the
> hub that needs to be covered up?
>
> Any suggestions for a good rim brake with about 70mm of reach? It
> seems like the options are:
>
> 1) BMX sidepull. Some reports in this newsgroup indicate these may be
> on the flexiible side. Which of these, if any, are recommended?
>
> 2) U-brake "plate" with a U-Brake. The "plate" mounts to the brake
> bridge and has posts for mounting a U-Brake. Would this be any better
> that the BMX style sidepulls?
>
> 3) An old centerpull. I don't want to go here, as routing the cable
> is somewhat problematic due to the need for a cable hanger.

My local used bike part shop has boxes of old Weimman "Schwinn
Approved" sidepulls with 60-80mm reach. Maybe there is something like
that in your city? I have one with koolstop continentals on the back
of my fixed-gear commuter (for symmetry) and it works fine. A little
time with a file and some sandpaper and you can make them look good
too if you are into that sort of thing.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

I reported:

>>I own three Nexus-geared bikes (1 7s-speed, 2 8-speed.) I left the
>>Rollerbrakes off of them partly because of this, partly because the
>>Rollerbrakes aren't terribly good brakes, and partly because the
>>Rollerbrakes weigh a pound and a quarter, WAY more than a decent caliper.
>>
Mark Muller asked:
>
> If I remove the roller brake, is there some type of gaping hole on the
> hub that needs to be covered up?
>
Nope.

> Any suggestions for a good rim brake with about 70mm of reach? It
> seems like the options are:
>
> 1) BMX sidepull. Some reports in this newsgroup indicate these may be
> on the flexiible side. Which of these, if any, are recommended?

A little flexibility is not such a terrible thing. That's what I used
on my IRO. Works OK, not great.

> 2) U-brake "plate" with a U-Brake. The "plate" mounts to the brake
> bridge and has posts for mounting a U-Brake. Would this be any better
> that the BMX style sidepulls?

Yes. However this has the same cable hanger issues as #3 below.

> 3) An old centerpull. I don't want to go here, as routing the cable
> is somewhat problematic due to the need for a cable hanger.

Yep. That's why my IRO has a centerpull in front only. I've got a
matching rear on hand, but there's no neat way to hang a hanger on this
bike.

Sheldon "Epicyclic" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Oh, my ways are strange ways and new ways and old ways, |
| And deep ways and steep ways and high ways and low, |
| I'm at home and at ease on a track that I know not, |
| And restless and lost on a road that I know. |
| --Henry Lawson |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
>With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
>travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
>pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
>braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
>without having the brake drag when not engaged. Short of switching to
>a rim brake, does anyone have a good / easy / affordable fix for this
>situation? At the moment I am just living with it, as the front brake
>is the more important one, but I would prefer to have a decent rear
>brake, even if only as a backup.

Even when they are set up and working properly, they don't work that well.
--------------
Alex

 

[Chalo]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> If I remove the roller brake, is there some type of gaping hole on the
> hub that needs to be covered up?

No, there's just a chrome-plated spline underneath the brake unit.

You may have to come up with some kind of spacer to recover your
correct axle spacing. The axle fitting behind the brake is small in
diameter and does not look very supportive of the axle or very suitable
to tighten the outer locknut against. I made a proper spacer on the
lathe.

> Any suggestions for a good rim brake with about 70mm of reach? It
> seems like the options are:
>
> 1) BMX sidepull. Some reports in this newsgroup indicate these may be
> on the flexiible side. Which of these, if any, are recommended?

None; they are pitifully weak. As a rear brake, you might find one to
be tolerable, but you'd best keep your front brake in excellent repair.


> 2) U-brake "plate" with a U-Brake. The "plate" mounts to the brake
> bridge and has posts for mounting a U-Brake. Would this be any better
> that the BMX style sidepulls?

It depends on what you mean by "better". They pack a whole lot more
braking power. But they are heavy, kludgy, ugly, and quick to fall out
of adjustment. They work, if that's your sole criterion.

I use them on a couple of different, um, "experimental" bikes that
don't warrant anything more elegant.

> 3) An old centerpull. I don't want to go here, as routing the cable
> is somewhat problematic due to the need for a cable hanger.

I have never seen one with 70mm+ of reach, either.

The tidiest solution by far would be to switch to levers that work
properly with your hub's integrated brake, but that's much easier to do
with flat bars.

Chalo Colina

 

[Chalo]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
> Mark Muller asked:
> >
> > 2) U-brake "plate" with a U-Brake. The "plate" mounts to the brake
> > bridge and has posts for mounting a U-Brake. Would this be any better
> > that the BMX style sidepulls?
>
> Yes. However this has the same cable hanger issues as #3 below.

The old MTB-style U-brakes with a straddle cable are afflicted as you
say, but many of the newer U-brakes intended for freestyle bikes employ
a "direct pull" cable:

http://www.danscomp.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&item=480009

I can't say whether these would work acceptably with drop bar levers.
They work fine with pre-linear-pull MTB levers, though.

Chalo Colina

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> I have a bike with a 7 speed nexus gear hub with the roller brake.
> With conventional drop bar aero brake levers, there isn't enough cable
> travel to achieve much braking from the roller brake - I can easily
> pull the lever to the bar, giving a less than impressive amount of
> braking, even when having the brake cable tightened as much as possible
> without having the brake drag when not engaged. Short of switching to
> a rim brake, does anyone have a good / easy / affordable fix for this
> situation? At the moment I am just living with it, as the front brake
> is the more important one, but I would prefer to have a decent rear
> brake, even if only as a backup.
>

Here is an update:

I purchased a lightly used tektro BMX style sidepull (looks like model
984) from a friendly LBS and installed it. I upgraded the pads to some
generic V-Brake pads (nicer hardware) that were in my parts box. The
resulting setup is an improvement over the roller brake, but still
isn't great - pretty much matches what Sheldon Brown described. It
needs a lot of hand strength to be effective. I could probably improve
the cable run (I didn't want to unwrap my handlebars), and I could
mount better brake pads, but I don't expect either to make this a great
brake. I might still try a U-Brake with appropriate mounting plate at
some point in the future.

Thanks for all the help/advice,
Mark Muller