nipple driver vs. electric screwdriver?

[landotter]

I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
so wide that it doesn't matter?

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Oct 11, 7:52 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
> when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
> reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
> thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
> though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
> been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
> and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
> and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
> wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
> so wide that it doesn't matter?

I count exposed threads (leave one while lacing the spokes) but I have
a nipple driver and it's indispensible for me when doing the third and
fourth set of spokes, when using a wrench is clumsy and your fingers
don't have enough grip.

I have the Craftsman "3/16 Slotted Speed Driver," only $6.99 at your
local Sears or K-Mart.

http://tinyurl.com/3baklg

Bike-specific ones with a "guide tip" are nice, too, but I don't know
if they're $20 nicer.

http://tinyurl.com/382yy2

 

[Kerry Montgomery]

"Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 11, 7:52 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
>> when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
>> reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
>> thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
>> though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
>> been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
>> and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
>> and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
>> wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
>> so wide that it doesn't matter?
>
> I count exposed threads (leave one while lacing the spokes) but I have
> a nipple driver and it's indispensible for me when doing the third and
> fourth set of spokes, when using a wrench is clumsy and your fingers
> don't have enough grip.
>
> I have the Craftsman "3/16 Slotted Speed Driver," only $6.99 at your
> local Sears or K-Mart.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3baklg
>
> Bike-specific ones with a "guide tip" are nice, too, but I don't know
> if they're $20 nicer.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/382yy2
>

I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
around before you started with the spoke wrench. Can't remember how well it
worked, however.
Kerry

 

[Tosspot]

Kerry Montgomery wrote:
> "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Oct 11, 7:52 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
>>>when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
>>>reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
>>>thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
>>>though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
>>>been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
>>>and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
>>>and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
>>>wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
>>>so wide that it doesn't matter?
>>
>>I count exposed threads (leave one while lacing the spokes) but I have
>>a nipple driver and it's indispensible for me when doing the third and
>>fourth set of spokes, when using a wrench is clumsy and your fingers
>>don't have enough grip.
>>
>>I have the Craftsman "3/16 Slotted Speed Driver," only $6.99 at your
>>local Sears or K-Mart.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/3baklg
>>
>>Bike-specific ones with a "guide tip" are nice, too, but I don't know
>>if they're $20 nicer.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/382yy2
>>
>
>
> I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
> electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
> would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
> turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
> around before you started with the spoke wrench. Can't remember how well it
> worked, however.
> Kerry

AOL. I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
one of these and give it a go.

Anyone tried this or similar?

 

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-10-12, Tosspot <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kerry Montgomery wrote:
>> "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...

>>
>> I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
>> electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
>> would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
>> turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
>> around before you started with the spoke wrench. Can't remember how well it
>> worked, however.
>> Kerry
>
> AOL. I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
> one of these and give it a go.
>
> Anyone tried this or similar?

Use one everyweek at work. no problems so far Having both sides of
the guide tip equal in depth is vital.

Cheers

Joel
--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email protected] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

 

[D'ohBoy]

On Oct 12, 2:27 am, Tosspot <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kerry Montgomery wrote:
> > "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >>On Oct 11, 7:52 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
> >>>when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
> >>>reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
> >>>thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
> >>>though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
> >>>been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
> >>>and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
> >>>and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
> >>>wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
> >>>so wide that it doesn't matter?
>
> >>I count exposed threads (leave one while lacing the spokes) but I have
> >>a nipple driver and it's indispensible for me when doing the third and
> >>fourth set of spokes, when using a wrench is clumsy and your fingers
> >>don't have enough grip.
>
> >>I have the Craftsman "3/16 Slotted Speed Driver," only $6.99 at your
> >>local Sears or K-Mart.
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/3baklg
>
> >>Bike-specific ones with a "guide tip" are nice, too, but I don't know
> >>if they're $20 nicer.
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/382yy2
>
> > I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
> > electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
> > would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
> > turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
> > around before you started with the spoke wrench. Can't remember how well it
> > worked, however.
> > Kerry
>
> AOL. I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
> one of these and give it a go.
>
> Anyone tried this or similar?


I take a used spoke, cut a nipple off halfway, bend the spoke so it
has a triangle on the non-threaded end (for gripping), run the nipple
up the spoke so that about three threads are exposed at the end to
make a nipple setter. Some loc-tite or crimping the nipple so it
can't rotate is helpful. I run this tool into the back end of the
nipple and then spin the nipple onto the wheel's spoke until the spoke
tool stops against the end of the spoke in the wheel.

Nice for holding nipples so they don't fall into your rim, and sets
each spoke perfectly.

D'ohBoy

 

[Ron Ruff]

What D'ohBoy said... that's the ticket.

 

[still me]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:27:53 +0200, Tosspot <[email protected]>
wrote:

>AOL. I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
>one of these and give it a go.
>
>Anyone tried this or similar?

The downside to this sort of approach is that as you reach the proper
depth, the driver rides out of the slot and you can damage the slot in
the nipple. The counter issues are "do you care" once you build the
wheel and "if you go slow enough at low build tensions will it
happen?". You might need a different nipple depth for each different
build unless you are using the same components for all wheels.

 

[[email protected]]

I find the nipple driver a highly useful tool because it is accurate
enough to engage spokes with a desired number of threads showing and
strong enough to partially tighten spokes if desired. Beyond that, it
isn't a power tool that requires a cord or batteries and makes no
noise.

http://tinyurl.com/2qafk8

I recommend it as a valuable adjunct to a good spoke wrench.

Jobst Brandt

 

[landotter]

On Oct 12, 8:43 am, D'ohBoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2:27 am, Tosspot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Kerry Montgomery wrote:
> > > "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > >>On Oct 11, 7:52 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >>>I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
> > >>>when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
> > >>>reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
> > >>>thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
> > >>>though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
> > >>>been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
> > >>>and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
> > >>>and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
> > >>>wrench. Would that be accurate, or are the tolerances of rims and hubs
> > >>>so wide that it doesn't matter?
>
> > >>I count exposed threads (leave one while lacing the spokes) but I have
> > >>a nipple driver and it's indispensible for me when doing the third and
> > >>fourth set of spokes, when using a wrench is clumsy and your fingers
> > >>don't have enough grip.
>
> > >>I have the Craftsman "3/16 Slotted Speed Driver," only $6.99 at your
> > >>local Sears or K-Mart.
>
> > >>http://tinyurl.com/3baklg
>
> > >>Bike-specific ones with a "guide tip" are nice, too, but I don't know
> > >>if they're $20 nicer.
>
> > >>http://tinyurl.com/382yy2
>
> > > I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
> > > electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
> > > would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
> > > turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
> > > around before you started with the spoke wrench. Can't remember how well it
> > > worked, however.
> > > Kerry
>
> > AOL. I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
> > one of these and give it a go.
>
> > Anyone tried this or similar?
>
> I take a used spoke, cut a nipple off halfway, bend the spoke so it
> has a triangle on the non-threaded end (for gripping), run the nipple
> up the spoke so that about three threads are exposed at the end to
> make a nipple setter. Some loc-tite or crimping the nipple so it
> can't rotate is helpful. I run this tool into the back end of the
> nipple and then spin the nipple onto the wheel's spoke until the spoke
> tool stops against the end of the spoke in the wheel.
>
> Nice for holding nipples so they don't fall into your rim, and sets
> each spoke perfectly.
>
> D'ohBoy

Just made one, without cutting the nipple or the spoke. Now I gotta
find a reason to build up some hoops.


thanx!

 

[John Thompson]

On 2007-10-12, Kerry Montgomery <[email protected]> wrote:

> I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
> electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide tip"
> would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
> turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
> around before you started with the spoke wrench.

Perhaps you're rememebering the VAR #263 nipple driver:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/var/pages/var0037.html

--

John ([email protected])

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Tosspot <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was just about to take a grinder to an ordinary flat bit to make
> one of these and give it a go.
>
> Anyone tried this or similar?

My favorite is a Phillips bit with two of the flukes ground off.

Picking up an electric screwdriver then putting it down for each
nipple was more work than I liked.

I suspended an electric screwdriver from overhead on a section of old
inner tube so that it was at a convenient height above the rim.
Having the driver dangling bit-down just over the rim was quite
convenient. I would just grab it and pull it down onto the nipple.

My preferred method for setting the spokes to a uniform starting
position was to slide my left thumbnail up the spoke until it snagged
the first thread. Then I would drive the nipple down until I felt it
contact the top of my thumbnail. As soon as my thumbnail felt the
touch of the nipple, I would let go of the driver and the inner tube
would lift it away from the nipple.

This sounds more complicated than it is. Really worked well for me
when I was doing wheelbuilding on a regular basis.

Sheldon "Ergonomics" Brown
+--------------------------------+
| Atheists do not believe in |
| "I before E except after C." |
+--------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Kerry Montgomery]

"John Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2007-10-12, Kerry Montgomery <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember a bit with a "guide tip" that could be chucked in an
>> electric screwdriver or drill. I think the theory was that the "guide
>> tip"
>> would push the driver out of the slot in the nipple at the same number of
>> turns every time, leaving you with approximately even tension all the way
>> around before you started with the spoke wrench.
>
> Perhaps you're rememebering the VAR #263 nipple driver:
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/var/pages/var0037.html
>
> --
>
> John ([email protected])

John,
Yes, the very one. Building went faster with the bit chucked in a drill than
using the ratchet screwdriver.
Thanks,
Kerry

 

[Tom Sherman]

landotter wrote:
> I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
> when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
> reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
> thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
> though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
> been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
> and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
> and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
> wrench....

My electric drill can be set for various maximum torques. However, I do
not know if the settings are in the appropriate range or consistent
enough to work for wheel building.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[Ben C]

On 2007-10-14, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> I'd never really thought about nipple drivers till this afternoon
>> when following a link on r.b.t. Knew about them, and the visual
>> reminded me of my dad's old guitar string winders and got me to
>> thinking. I've only started building recently, six wheels this year,
>> though tuning and truing for twenty, and since I'm no pro, I've
>> been using an electric driver to lace up the wheels. I saw the winder
>> and thought, hey, if you do it manually, then you can count the winds
>> and get a much more even tension before you start in with the spoke
>> wrench....
>
> My electric drill can be set for various maximum torques. However, I do
> not know if the settings are in the appropriate range or consistent
> enough to work for wheel building.

Torque can be a bit misleading. Of course every thread is lubed with
your favourite lube before you start, but some of them may stick more
than others. You need to count threads before the spokes get tight, and
when they do, pluck them or use a tension gauge. The ones that are
easier to turn aren't necessarily the looser ones.

 

[still me]

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:12:51 -0500, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:

>> My electric drill can be set for various maximum torques. However, I do
>> not know if the settings are in the appropriate range or consistent
>> enough to work for wheel building.
>
>Torque can be a bit misleading. Of course every thread is lubed with
>your favourite lube before you start, but some of them may stick more
>than others. You need to count threads before the spokes get tight, and
>when they do, pluck them or use a tension gauge. The ones that are
>easier to turn aren't necessarily the looser ones.

The torque setting might be useful for a quick run up once you have
all the spokes roughed in - but it's useless until the whole wheel is
strung since you are pulling against nothing until then.